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Di2 Frustrations

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  • November 26, 2015 at 9:48 am #25096
    Martyn_K

    So i grab the bike from the spare room yesterday to go out for a ride. It’s a dry day so i opt for the ‘posh bike’ as it’s nice to keep the body used to the more aggressive position.

    Any way i attempt to drop the chain down to the 11 sprocket in order to put the outdoor wheel on (it lives on the turbo during the winter months) but nothing. No shifting. Clicky clicky, not a peep. Nothing on the FD either. I press the ‘adjust mode’ button on the stem junction box and it lights up, so there is power & connections there. I double checked all connections, all terminations are solid.

    I plug it in to the e-tubes application in order to do a quick check. All firmware up to date. It tells me that the battery can be seen, but the juntion box A is not there (despite the software being connected via junction box A). Now the other half also has a Di2 bike, so i swap the junction box A from her bike with mine. Her shifting still works (with my box A), mine still fails. This tells me that it is not a problem with the junction box.

    Now, i should explain at this point that i had a replacement battery in April this year, after similar problems were found to be due to an unknown battery issue. So i immediately decide to focus my diagnostics to the battery. As explained earlier i have access to another Di2 bike, so i swapped the battery from that to mine.

    Pow! I now have all shifting on my bike. Next step, connect my battery to the other bike. Doh! No shifting at all. Ok, my battery proven dead. Which is interesting as both bikes get charged at the same time, do about the same miles, have firmware updates at the same time and are also being stored in the same place. Strange.

    I charge my battery overnight and have another test in the morning. Still the same. So it appears that i have another knackered battery, the second since original purchase in July 2014.

    Has anyone else had issues of this nature?

    It’s just so frustrating and after investing in a Di2 bike for the missus feel like i’m just waiting for the same issue on her bike too.

     

     

    PS: Cue the mechanical stalwarts posting ‘supportive’ messages regrding the joys of cabled groupsets!

     

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Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 21 total)
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  • December 4, 2015 at 3:05 pm #863443
    0
    kev-s

    Most things technology wise

    Most things technology wise are like this these days

     

    Look how many updates your phone and pc need each year

     

    The battery is built with the latest firmware but then has sat on a shelf for 2-6+ months at the distro/shop until purchased, which means that firmware version could be outdated by the time the consumer fits it to their bike

     

    There’s nothing shimano can do about this, you could ask the company you buy the battery off to update it to the latest firmware before they ship it you (sure ive heard of a retailer doing this with groupsets)

     

    The one major downside of owing a mac is most programs are geared towards microsoft as thats what the majority of businesses and people use

     

    Campag have come up with a neat solution, they have an app thats on andriod and apple, so maybe shimano might go down that route one day too

     

    There are programs out there that let you run windows programs on macs

     

    Plug the battery in and give it a try, it will ethier work or it wont, it cant make and changes to the rest of the system, that can only be done by using the e-tube software

     

     

     

    December 4, 2015 at 12:07 pm #863441
    0
    fukawitribe
    Cyclespeed Tours wrote:
    This kind of stuff is pretty disappointing really – Shimano should make sure their stuff works out of the box.

     

    They do, this may be frustrating but shit happens – this is the real world and in it there is typically a distribution of things fucking up, often  the probability of which is inversely proportional to the severity and frequently (but not necessarily) skewed towards the beginning and end of the expected life-time. This issue is hardly endemic is it ?

    December 4, 2015 at 10:36 am #863439
    0
    Cyclespeed Tours

    This kind of stuff is pretty

    This kind of stuff is pretty disappointing really – Shimano should make sure their stuff works out of the box.

    I can’t even keep my firmware up to date easily as I have a Mac.

    I have no idea if my new battery from Wiggle has the latest firmware or not. All I know is I dare not use it until I have a PCE1 and a PC by my side, just in case.

     

    December 2, 2015 at 3:04 pm #863437
    0
    kev-s

    It can be a bit strange and

    It can be a bit strange and frustrating at times

     

    If the battery has a firmware thats close to the groupset i.e the battery is v4.0 and the groupset is v4.1 i think the battery should work

     

    I think its more of a problem if the battery is v3.9 and the rest of the groupset is v4.0

     

    For anyone who wants diagnose any faults with their di2 system and dosent want to shell out £100+ for a pce1 interface then this guy on ebay rents his out

     

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Borrow-a-Shimano-SM-PCE1-PC-Interface-Device-for-Etube-Di2-5-DAY-RENTAL-ONLY-/291624732978?hash=item43e6304932:g:whkAAOSwstxVWfbl

    December 2, 2015 at 12:13 pm #863435
    0
    Martyn_K

    At this point i should note

    At this point i should note that i work as a telephony engineer, so diagnostic logic comes pretty naturally to me!!

    Obviously i isolated the issue to the battery by swapping out with another known working battery. From here i disregarded the rest of the groupset and set about trying to get the faulty battery working. I had a couple of spare Di cables and a spare junction box A. So i connected JBA to the battery and then plugged in to E-tubes.

    E-tubes noted it could see the battery but not JBA, which i though was strange as it had to go through JBA to see the battery. Unplugged, disconnected the battery and the went again with only JBA connected to E-tubes, which it detected. Highly strange. I then went back to the bike and connected individual components through JBA and all were seen. When connecting the JBA, the battery and the shifters the JBA was not seen again (blocking the shifters too). Proving pretty much that the battery is causing the issue.

    Firmware, the latest firmware for the battery is listed as released in April 2015. Which was when this faulty battery was installed. Now i know i had updated the firmware on the whole system in May when servicing ready for the summer season. All firmware was up to date.

    To discount the firmware theory in my issue i connected the bike up to E-tubes this morning with the new working battery installed. Guess what, the new battery alone needed a firmware update but still worked pre-update (and post update, i checked!!).

    As i have written before and muttered many times, strange strange strange.

    December 2, 2015 at 11:30 am #863433
    0
    kev-s

    I had this issue a little
    I had this issue a little while ago with a build for a customer, basically I built the bike with ultegra di2 and updated all the firmware

    He bought a spare battery as a back up (no idea why) but the new spare didn’t work when connected to the system

    As the battery had a earlier firmware it wouldn’t work with the rest of the groupset which had the later firmware

    It couldn’t be updated via the charger because of this so I had to connect the battery directly to the pce1 diagnostic tool and update the batteries firmware to the same as the rest of the groupset

    Once the battery was connected to the groupset everything worked fine

    Your new battery may work fine, will depend in what firmware it’s been shipped with and what firmware your groupset currently has

    The pce1 is a great bit of kit and is handy to have, you can pick them up for around £100 and you can recoup some of that by offering to update or diagnos problems with other people’s groupsets for a small fee

    Think you can even hire one off someone on ebay for under £20

    December 2, 2015 at 8:51 am #863431
    0
    Cyclespeed Tours

    OK, so I can use my ‘basic’

    OK, so I can use my ‘basic’ charger to update, even though I still need to find a PC to do it!

    My new battery has just arrived from Wig, but I do worry a bit that if I install it, it may not have the same firmware as the old one and not work, or worse shut down the whole system. 

    Then I would have to go back to my LBS, beg, borrow or steal their PCE1 and get a PC from somewhere too. 

    Bit of a nightmare really…..

    As for the charging, I know, it’s odd, a USB should charge like any other USB, but Shimano France were adamant that I should only charge from a computer or similar, not a mains USB charger as apparently they are not all the same.

    All I know is, it did solve my problem (battery went from 30% fully charged to 100%)

    December 2, 2015 at 4:29 am #863429
    0
    kev-s

    I know there not the same

    I know there not the same chargers ( ive had both 10 speed da and ultegra external battery systems and 11 speed  da and uletgra internal battery systems as well as building  a few 10 & 11 speed di2 bikes for other people)

     

    As you are both running internal battries you can simply check to see if everything is running the latest firmware using the charger & a pc and update if needed

    The pce1 is only needed for diagnostics on 6800 and 9000 all firmware updates can be done using the charger connected to a pc, unless like your system there is a complete failure then the pce1 is the only option

    strange that u have to charge your battery via a pc as all mine have always been charged via the mains

     

     

     

    December 1, 2015 at 7:15 pm #863427
    0
    Cyclespeed Tours
    kev-s wrote:
    Ok so your both running internal batteries

     

    I take it the whole groupset is running the most up to date firmware?

     

    Easy enough to check as the charger also doubles as the pc connection to update the firmware via shimano’s e-tube project software

     

    I have had a couple of builds where the battery had older firmware than the rest of the groupset which caused some issues (one wouldnt power the system at all)

     

    I had to connect the battery directly to the pc and update it to the most current firmware using my di2 PCE1 dianostic tool

     

    Then once the whole groupset had the most up to date firmware everything was fine

     

    Unfortunately, the charger for the internal battery is not the same as for the external one. 

    It has no ‘interrogation’ facility. Only the PCE 1 can do that.

    When I had problems with my system* (that came when I installed the Shimano EWW01 gear position sender), I had to borrow a PCE1 from my LBS to update my 9070 components to the latest firmware.

    I also had to borrow a mate’s portable PC as if you run Macs, you’re s**t out of luck!!

     

    *it totally died

    December 1, 2015 at 5:02 pm #863425
    0
    Scrufftie

    For anyone using Di2, I

    For anyone using Di2, I highly recommend looking at this site;

    Shimano Ultegra and Dura-Ace Di2 Electronic Shifting – Everything You Need to Know

    It may not have the answer but the forum is a great resource

    December 1, 2015 at 3:26 pm #863423
    0
    kev-s

    Ok so your both running

    Ok so your both running internal batteries

     

    I take it the whole groupset is running the most up to date firmware?

     

    Easy enough to check as the charger also doubles as the pc connection to update the firmware via shimano’s e-tube project software

     

    I have had a couple of builds where the battery had older firmware than the rest of the groupset which caused some issues (one wouldnt power the system at all)

     

    I had to connect the battery directly to the pc and update it to the most current firmware using my di2 PCE1 dianostic tool

     

    Then once the whole groupset had the most up to date firmware everything was fine

    December 1, 2015 at 10:13 am #863421
    0
    Martyn_K

    Internal battery here too.

    Internal battery here too.

    So the replacement ordered from the big W online store turned up on Monday. Guess what, plugged in and Di2 back in business. Going forwards i think i’ll charge from the laptop like Cyclespeed Tours has suggested.

    I have already sounded out my local bike shop that i’ll be bringing the bike in for a diagnostics test once the xmas rush has ended.

    Next thing to do is post off the knackered battery to the original dealer and wait for a replacement. At least i’ll have a spare then.

    December 1, 2015 at 7:54 am #863419
    0
    Cyclespeed Tours

    My battery is internal.

    My battery is internal.

    I now either charge the bike from the laptop,  or if the kids have nicked that, directly from the Imac in my office.

    November 30, 2015 at 3:38 pm #863417
    0
    kev-s

    are you guys using the

    are you guys using the internal seatpost battery or the external battery?

     

    If its the external battery and the battery mount is mounted on the underside of the downtube by the bottom bracket shell then the mount can suffer from  internal corrsion

    My battery used to go flat over 5 days with zero use, tried a spare battery and it was the same

    so i dismantled the battery mount itself

    The mount is designed so any  water that manages to enter it can escape but a bit of mud or grime build up can block this allowing the water to hang around and corrode the connections

    there is a small module that joins the di2 wire connection to the battery mounts 2 prong terminal connection

    This is what corrodes and discharges the battery

    Had this happen twice over two years, needed a new mount both times, ended up going internal battery with no problems

    November 30, 2015 at 10:23 am #863415
    0
    Martyn_K
    Cyclespeed Tours wrote:
    …… – spoke to Shimano, they said don’t charge it from a wall, ‘plug – in’ charger, but use a computer or lap top – weird, but that worked.

     

    The missus cycles so there is no issue having the bike indoors but i can’t wait to see her face when i’m browsing the t’interweb and my bike is snuggled up on the sofa next to me charging!!

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