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Nat Jas Moe.
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February 24, 2015 at 7:01 pm #23357Nat Jas Moe
I’m thinking of getting some new shoes as my current shoes are showing their age. But what to get? Do I stay with my SPD’ s or go with “proper” road pedals, my son has given me some Look road pedal so it’s only the shoes I need to think about.
So the question I have is what advantage do 3 holed cleats have over their 2 holed brothers? (Apart from the obvious ministry of silly walks).
Cheers for your forth coming help.
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Chris James
FullGas wrote:
Pressing downFullGas wrote:
Pressing down on the pedals is only about 40% of the pedal stroke. .Really? Are you talking about what percentage of the rotation each single leg makes? I would have thought the percentage of power produced would be much more relevant.
Just look at your legs. Your ‘pushing’ muscles are a lot bigger than your ‘pulling’ muscles. My understanding is that, at best, pulling up is just unweighting the pedal to allow easier pushing down on the other pedal. As I mentioned in my earlier post, GCN actually tried to put some science to this at Loughborough Uni, and the tests basically showed no difference between clipless and flat pedals (with Si pedalling in his road shoes on the flat pedals!). In fat, IIRC the results actually had the flatties slightly more efficient, but all well within margin of error.
Tony Farrelly
danjoyce wrote:Having used
danjoyce wrote:Having used lots of different pedal systems, I now just use SPDs for everything, even time trialling and hill climbing. I do okay. If the shoe sole is stiff enough, pedal platform is princess and the pea stuff.I’m with Dan too. The only time I ever use road pedals is when I’m going to be on the bike all day and even then that’s only because I’ve got a really comfortable pair of Fizik road shoes that have a bit more give in the upper than my usual MTB shoes.
It’s also worth remembering that SPDs come with a a lot of different platform options besides just the basic 525. There are touring pedals like the A600 – which is basically a road pedal that takes an SPD cleat, or my particular fave the M324 – single sided SPD on one side, flat metal cage the other – a great all-purpose commuter pedal.
wycombewheeler
FullGas wrote:
Pressing downFullGas wrote:Pressing down on the pedals is only about 40% of the pedal stroke. Pulling up your feet is an advantage that’s too hard to ignore, specially when standing up. SPDs make it hard to do it due to massive amount of float they provide when compared to proper road pedals.
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I’m not convinced by this argument, in my uni years my friend came off his mtb and took a gash out of shin, and we swapped bikes and he pedalled the 6 miles to the hospital on one leg wearing my spds. pulling up is not that comfortable anyway as the leg muscles are not really evolved to work that way.road shoes/pedals are lighter more aero and look better, mtb spds have the advantage of being double sided and fitting shoes you can walk in at the café.
Anonymous
The physical benefits of
The physical benefits of SPD-SL over SPD’s are the wider platform of the cleat and pedal means there is more lateral stability for your foot on the pedal.The single sided nature of the SL also reduces the profile of the pedal allowing you to pedal marginally deeper into a corner.
A proper road shoe has a stiff sole all the way to the tip of the toe giving a more stable base, whereas in most MTB shoes the carbon or nylon stops just ahead of the cleat to allow the sole to bend slightly at that point, to aid walking as often required in MTBing.
Road shoes are generally lighter as they don’t have tread and reinforcements, so a slight reduction in rotating mass.
As with all the bike industry claims, none of the above will make the huge difference they would like you to believe, but I do prefer the more stable, lower profile of a proper road shoe/pedal setup.
There is also the advantage that walking in them is not a good option, so added impetus to get up hills and learn to trackstand!
runskiprun
I moved to SPD pedals after
I moved to SPD pedals after losing my left leg. As my right leg now does the majority of the power supply, being clipped in means I can use my right leg on the lift as well as keeping my left foot in place and therefore me balanced on my bike.
I used to get the hot spot when using SPD’s, but I’ve moved to SPD SL and the wider contact area gives me better peace of mind.Ride with what makes you happy I spose
pants
danjoyce wrote:Having used
danjoyce wrote:Having used lots of different pedal systems, I now just use SPDs for everything, even time trialling and hill climbing. I do okay. If the shoe sole is stiff enough, pedal platform is princess and the pea stuff.I think so too, I’d love to see a test to see if there are any difference in power transfer. Even if there was, the ease of use and durabilty makes spds a much better choice for the majority of people.
CXR94Di2
I disagree with not up
I disagree with not up pulling. I find if you lift your leg out of the way it lessens the force required to push down, increases natural cadence, speed and lessens fatigue.If you don’t have the weight of the leg on the up stroke, it is easier for the push stroke.
FullGas
Simon E wrote:…the bottom
Simon E wrote:…the bottom of the stroke, where it should feel like ‘scraping sh*t off your shoe’.Thank you for mentioning that. I also get o lot of power out of that motion which can only be fully exerted when using road pedals. There’s also the other opposite of the pedal stroke to use.
In the end, the proper pedal technique advises us to use 100% of the motion. Now that does’t mean we should pedal like that 100% of the time. Here’s a [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1j1j0ttVPU]video[/url] that goes into the details of this much debated subject.
Simon E
The supposed benefit of
The supposed benefit of pulling up on the pedal stroke is overrated IMHO. Your muscles should be doing 95% of their work in the downstroke and, to a lesser extent, the bottom of the stroke, where it should feel like ‘scraping sh*t off your shoe’.bigmel wrote:For the real
bigmel wrote:For the real world, use SPD shoes & pedals.
There is no “better power transfer due to the bigger platform they offer” – power comes from pressing down hard with your muscles!
How your foot feels is what matters – stiff soles don’t bend so you don’t have an irritating rubbing/flexing/hot-spot or similar. There are plenty of stiff SPD shoes out there but I have never had a problem with regular Shimano nylon-based soles.
(speaking as a regular club rider for the last umpteen years).Pressing down on the pedals is only about 40% of the pedal stroke. Pulling up your feet is an advantage that’s too hard to ignore, specially when standing up. SPDs make it hard to do it due to massive amount of float they provide when compared to proper road pedals.
As for shoes with nylon-based versus carbon soles, I’ve had problems with foot arc pain with the former that were only solved by using my Bont Vaypors. That wouldn’t have been a problem if I pedalled only pressing down with my muscles.
It’s a matter of preference and riding style. On one end we have your experience, and on the other we have mine, both valid. Now it’s up to the OP to make a decision based on his personal preference.
mike the bike
bigmel wrote:For the real
bigmel wrote:For the real world, use SPD shoes & pedals.
There is no “better power transfer due to the bigger platform they offer” – power comes from pressing down hard with your muscles!
How your foot feels is what matters – stiff soles don’t bend so you don’t have an irritating rubbing/flexing/hot-spot or similar. There are plenty of stiff SPD shoes out there but I have never had a problem with regular Shimano nylon-based soles.
(speaking as a regular club rider for the last umpteen years).Spot on bigmel. I’d like to see some of these faux physicists perform in blind tests and then see if they get more power down in SPD SLs.
Normal humans, going about their normal business should be perfectly happy in SPDs and at a fraction of the costs too.thesaladdays
bigmel wrote:How your foot
bigmel wrote:How your foot feels is what matters – stiff soles don’t bend so you don’t have an irritating rubbing/flexing/hot-spot or similar.Hot spots are exactly what I experienced when I tried SPDs, despite the stiff soles of my shoes. The soles may not bend but I’m sure that pressure applied over a smaller area would have this kind of effect. Switched to Look Keos and the discomfort went away instantly.
bigmel
For the real world, use SPD
For the real world, use SPD shoes & pedals.
There is no “better power transfer due to the bigger platform they offer” – power comes from pressing down hard with your muscles!
How your foot feels is what matters – stiff soles don’t bend so you don’t have an irritating rubbing/flexing/hot-spot or similar. There are plenty of stiff SPD shoes out there but I have never had a problem with regular Shimano nylon-based soles.
(speaking as a regular club rider for the last umpteen years).Nick0
There are shoes that accept
There are shoes that accept both SPD (two hole), and SPD-SL (three hole) cleats. On the face of it, this seems to be the best of both worlds; SPD are better for (town/city/traffic) commuting (since they’re two sided), when you will have to unclip/reclip more often, whereas SPD-SL offer better power transfer, and arguably better comfort.However, finding the best fit for your cleats, and having to then remove them to fit the others to use the other pedals, will presumably mean that you lose your settings each time?
some cheap examples are shown here –
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/shimano-r064-spd-sl-road-shoes-2014/rp-prod69973
Hope that helps?!
Simon E
I have used both for a number
I have used both for a number of years and find SPDs work just as well and are more practical, both on and off the bike. I’ve not found 3-bolt cleats to have any advantages.Double-sided SPD pedals like Shimano M520 are great for start-stop riding, just stamp-and-go. For those wanting a larger support area for the shoe Shimano A520 work well. Not tried other brands such as Crank Bros.
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