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Should retailers accept returns on bibshorts?

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  • November 14, 2014 at 7:58 am #22733
    KiwiMike

    So after extensive research I purchased a pair of Castelli Nanoflex bibs from Wiggle, paying strict attention to the size guide. They are rated 4.4/5 on Wiggle’s site, and the only ‘fit’ problems raised are with length.

    Tried them on in the privacy of my own home, looked good, felt good, all OK. No bunching anywhere, feel snug whilst not restrictive, etc etc.

    Go out on a ride, and within 20 miles, it feels like I’m sitting on a rolled-up sock. After 40 miles, I genuinely had to check I had them on the right way around (correct).

    Get home, give them a good wash, all seams/pad seem correct and accounted for.

    Return them to Wiggle for a refund, and they say:

    “We have received back your Castelli Nanoflex Bibshorts you would like us to refund due to the item not fitting. All customers have the opportunity to try on goods when they first receive them to check the fit and size of the item before using them. We hope you can appreciate that we have to follow our own returns procedure to ensure that we only sell goods in the best possible condition, we don’t sell used goods so we cannot accept back used goods. All returned goods must be returned to us unused in there original packaging and labels http://www.wiggle.co.uk/h/option/returnsprocedure. Unfortunately sizing issues are not a manufacturing fault therefore are not covered by warranty, due to this we are only able to return this item back to you”

    Now I ride about 5,000 miles a year. I have never had a saddle sore. I have never had any kind of issue in the nether department. Be it wearing normal. knicks or full-length bibs, waistband shorts or MTB baggies with a pad.

    Should a retailer have to honour a return where the customer has done everything they could to ensure it was a quality product, the right size, the correct fit, used correctly – and yet the product is simply not fit for purpose?

    Aside from Wiggle’s stupidity at potentially losing for life a customer who spends about £500 a year on stuff over an item they probably made £10 margin on, can I actually go them in a small claims court under the distance selling regs?

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  • November 14, 2014 at 11:55 am #820875
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    KiwiMike

    So got a reply from Wiggle
    So got a reply from Wiggle CS:

    “Unfortunately we do not accept back items that are returned as unwanted after having been used.

    This is simply an issue where the incorrect size has been chosen, and as stated before we allow customers to try the garments on before use to get a feel for the product, but as you have now returned the product not in a resellable condition we cannot provide a full refund for the product.

    Please note that we are unable to accept that these are not fit for purpose, simply because they were not right for you after one use.”

    I have repeatedly advised them that the sizing, according to their size guide, is absolutely spot on. And that they felt just fine standing up or in fact even sitting on the bike. Was genuinely looking forward to completing my Castelli winter kit of Nanoflex arms, legs and Gabba.

    So by every metric, they should work. The fact that they didn’t, to the point of being painful after 40 miles, is why I say they are ‘not fit for purpose’. Neither Castelli nor Wiggle say these shorts are designed only for a certain type of posterior, saddle or bike-fit posture.

    I’m impressed there are so many people who consider losing £80 after conducting extensive research and playing precisely by the size rules to be such a non-issue. Maybe if you IM me your debit card details I can share the love.

    November 14, 2014 at 11:48 am #820873
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    parksey

    Aren’t the likes of bibs
    Aren’t the likes of bibs generally excluded from returns anyway, on the basis that they’re intended to be worn like underwear? I’d certainly think twice about buying bibs online if I knew retailers were accepting returns after people had worn them “properly”… Buying used underwear online is a rather different sub-culture altogether! :))

    Difficult to otherwise say from the OP’s description of events whether the bibs are genuinely defective such that Wiggle should honour the return. I don’t think it could reasonably be argued that they’re just not fit for purpose though, so it may just be a case of sticking them on eBay and taking the hit, with a possible lesson as to whether you want to buy bibs online again in the future.

    November 14, 2014 at 11:45 am #820871
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    Anonymous

    It’s a tricky one, isn’t it.
    It’s a tricky one, isn’t it. Because you can’t truly check that something is ‘fit for purpose’ and ‘merchantable quality’ until it’s been given a proper workout.

    But, you’re onto a loser. Suck it up, move on.

    November 14, 2014 at 11:05 am #820869
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    Malaconotus

    Tell all your friends not to
    Tell all your friends not to shop at Wiggle because they didn’t want your used pants back and they’ll laugh at you.

    What earthly use are your used kecks to Wiggle? Are they supposed to sell them to someone else? You are 0.0003% of their business. The reputational damage caused by this thread is precisely nil.

    The policy is perfectly reasonable. Try them on, if they don’t fit, return them.

    November 14, 2014 at 10:45 am #820867
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    tritecommentbot

    Awkward situation.
    Problem
    Awkward situation.

    Problem with sports gear is often that what may feel right standing upright at home, or even just sitting on a stationary bike, may feel completely wrong, chafe, or even hurt when actually doing something that the product was designed for.

    Both of you have a point here an Wiggle are within their rights it seems.

    I would try and contact Castelli about it Maybe they’ll throw you a bone.

    About the discussion on boots above. That’s way off the mark. Boots go back to outdoors stores like Cotswold etc by the bucketload, even after several months of use. They simply return them to the manufacturer as faulty who credit them. They don’t actually lose out.

    Some boots are famous for having a high after use return rate (Salomon Quest’s and other in that range).

    November 14, 2014 at 10:27 am #820865
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    redmeat

    I’m sure Wiggle really care
    I’m sure Wiggle really care about losing your £500.

    November 14, 2014 at 10:09 am #820863
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    OnTheRopes

    Yes you try the boots on but
    Yes you try the boots on but you dont / cant send them back after proofing, getting them wet on a long walk.

    If any retailer allowed return on used products then how many would abuse the system, buy the shorts use them for a sportive and send them back? I maintain they would soon go out of business, how many clothes retailers can you name that allow you to do this?

    I’m afraid if it is fit, then you need to decide by trying them on at home, once again name me a local bike shop that will allow you to try them on in the shop then buy and ride for a 20 mile loop and then expect a refund? Washed or not they are second hand.

    However, I concede if they are truly faulty as in they rolled up ‘like an old sock’ because for example the pad was not stitched correctly then you are correct to want a refund, if it is just a sizing issue then I’m afraid I disagree with you

    November 14, 2014 at 9:20 am #820861
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    KiwiMike

    OnTheRopes wrote:Could you go

    OnTheRopes wrote:
    Could you go int a local bike shop and expect to take a pair of shorts for a 20 mile ride and then expect them to take them back? Or if you go into a outdoor and spend £200 on some really nice hiking boots do you think they would let you walk round town for a couple of hours before making a decision?
    Simple answer is no.

    Having purchased a lot of boots over the years, you try them on, make sure you have toe room/suitable width, and that there will be a period of breaking in during which it pays to get them wet then go for a long walk, apply lots of proofing, etc. That’s a tried & tested process. I’ve never had boots need to go back. I’ve also never read that bibshorts need ‘breaking in’.

    OnTheRopes wrote:
    Any retailer that took back used items I doubt would be in business long and I think you are being unfair to expect it.

    …as opposed to a retailer who is prepared to see a £500/yr customer walk away for ever, and tell all their friends not to use that firm either? Repeat business is built on trust. The consumer has a choice. Any business that doesn’t recognise that won’t be in business for long.

    OnTheRopes wrote:
    As for small claims I assume you did read the T&C you signed up to?

    The EU distance selling regulations state a product must be fit for purpose, and no amount of after-the-fact T&C can remove fundamental consumer rights and seller obligations.

    OnTheRopes wrote:
    A different matter if the item is faulty of course

    That’s what I’m saying they are. I accept definitions of ‘faulty’ may vary. All I know is that I’m £80 down with some shorts I can’t wear, having followed the size guide to the cm.

    November 14, 2014 at 9:13 am #820859
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    mrmo

    Quote:Aside from Wiggle’s

    Aside from Wiggle’s stupidity at potentially losing for life a customer who spends about £500 a year on stuff over an item they probably made £10 margin on, can I actually go them in a small claims court under the distance selling regs?

    So they make £50 out of you buy your own admission.

    you tried them on, you rode in them, then you expect a refund. Sorry unless they are faulty, in that there is a manufacturing fault I think you are on to a looser.

    November 14, 2014 at 8:47 am #820857
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    OnTheRopes

    Could you go int a local bike
    Could you go int a local bike shop and expect to take a pair of shorts for a 20 mile ride and then expect them to take them back? Or if you go into a outdoor and spend £200 on some really nice hiking boots do you think they would let you walk round town for a couple of hours before making a decision?
    Simple answer is no.
    Any retailer that took back used items I doubt would be in business long and I think you are being unfair to expect it.
    As for small claims I assume you did read the T&C you signed up to?

    A different matter if the item is faulty of course

    Personally I find Wiggle are one of the best online retailers, easy to use and their returns policy is fair and easy to do. They even send you all you need to post it back for free. So sorry but I think you are expecting rather a lot.

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