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Falling off on new road surface

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  • November 11, 2014 at 9:31 pm #22721
    dazzer1970

    Hi all, wanted to canvas opinion, fell off my bike in September on a flat, straight and new section of road (had been down a couple of months) leading up to a junction, I broke my ribs and have not been out since! I perceive this to be a worse hazard than pot holes and no longer have the confidence to go out in any sort of wet weather if the roads are so slippery in certain places, I am not a new cyclist and have frequently exercised caution especially going round corners, I unclip the relevant foot incase of slippage, hence on this occasion I was not unclipped because the road was straight and I was not expecting it, does anyone else have any experience of a similar occurence?

    I contacted a personal injury company because I feel the road repairers should be putting down anti slip and they are at fault, I also believe that perhaps they are using better materials in the tarmac to perhaps make it more hard wearing and hence, I believe, more slippery in the wet compared to previous road surfaces. A friend of mine rides horses along the same stretch of road and the horse a couple of weeks ago lost its footing and she fell off, luckily no injury, which she has also commented that such an event has not happened to her before in many years of horse riding. The personal injury company said that they did not have enough to make a case. Do anyone have any views on this please?

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  • November 13, 2014 at 11:12 pm #820649
    0
    dazzer1970

    Please see comments about new
    Please see comments about new road surfaces being more slippery, hope you dont fall off any time soon!

    November 13, 2014 at 11:09 pm #820647
    0
    dazzer1970

    Have a look at “Peep show
    Have a look at “Peep show farming” on You tube, I couldnt believe that either!

    November 13, 2014 at 11:07 pm #820645
    0
    dazzer1970

    Not my angle, just felt that
    Not my angle, just felt that the road must be extra slippery, not pursueing it further, get off your horse!

    November 13, 2014 at 3:15 pm #820643
    0
    MKultra

    I lost the front wheel on an
    I lost the front wheel on an icy bit of 50 mm concrete edging that divided two bits of car park at the local nature reserve. Smashed my knee and left me limping for ages. I had to take a several weeks off the bike to make that injury go away. I still don’t feel the need to seek compensation.

    I honestly don’t know why people do this – go fishing for support because they are about to try and screw money out of an insurer/bike shop/etc etc in dubious circumstances. If you were sure you were in the right you would not need to ask for peer approval.

    There is another chap on the forums who does this in relation to the LBS when he wants something he broke in the first place fixed for free.

    November 13, 2014 at 2:11 pm #820641
    0
    dazzer1970

    Hello again all,
    Firstly I
    Hello again all,

    Firstly I should like to point out that I am not a “nervous rider”or someone who can’t ride properly, I have plenty of Strava segments that would proove otherwise, also it is not in my personality to want to sue the rain for falling out of the sky! Furthermore I thank you all for your comments, especially to those referring to road surfaces being laid in a different way, these being the most helpful, especially Nixster who seems to totally get where I am coming from, the sarcastic and patronising comments being not so helpful…………….yawn!

    I too am confused what caused me to crash, part of my mission here was to establish if other riders are experiencing the same issues on new road surfaces, I completed many miles of wet riding last year, including around corners amazingly, before they started the massive resurfacing program here, without falling off, even on the same stretch of road. I would not expect to fall off in a straight line, I had no lack of confidence before I fell off, in fact that pretty much didnt help as I did not expect to fall off when I did and hence was caught unawares, somebody here has mentioned that I must have had an unlucky accident which I am prepared to go with.

    I agree that new road surfaces are for the greater good, far superior in the dry, I was just asking a question really, to fall off as easily as I did seemed quite ridiculous and I feel there must have been a large amount of diesel/oil on the road combined with the extra smooth surface to make it so slippery.

    Just to sum up, I am a family man with 3 children and hence a lot of responsibilities, the A & E doctor told me I was lucky not to puncture a lung and I should allow for full healing before venturing out, it is easy to say “Man up” if you don’t have a family to support, I was off work for 3 weeks, its not the sort of injury you want to end up with, I certainly don’t need it again, so be careful out there! If you do hurt yourself then God help you, because no one else will. I don’t lack motivation to get back on the bike I have been using my turbo trainer to get going again……………….

    November 13, 2014 at 1:29 am #820639
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    Leviathan

    A few comments caught up in
    A few comments caught up in the road surface and what to call it here…
    I am confused as to what caused you to crash. You are talking about the surface, but even on a new, flat, straight bit of road it is quite something for the wheels to just go sideways and bring you down. Unclipping on a corner regularly could actually make things worse. A normal urban turn should not require this. I’ve only seen (and only done this myself a few times) when you over cook a turn on a steep descent and are still braking as you turn and have to stop or crash into the corner. Its best to do most of your braking before the turn, not during.

    There are lots of tips for braking and cornering safely on GNC:

    If in doubt, get some flat pedals and a hybrid with none skinny wheels.

    Finally, the councils are already busy coping with compensation claims because of poor old roads, we don’t need people claiming for crashes on new roads as an excuse for them to do nothing. New surfaces are for the greater good, unless you would prefer gravel. Rule 5. sounds harsh but it is succinct. The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.

    November 12, 2014 at 9:30 pm #820637
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    Jeroen0110

    Yawn yawn rule number 5,
    Yawn yawn rule number 5, ’nuff said…

    November 12, 2014 at 6:48 pm #820635
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    Nixster

    OldRidgeback wrote:racyrich

    OldRidgeback wrote:
    racyrich wrote:
    The way asphalt is laid was changed a few years back. Previous the gungy tar mix was poured and levelled, then finally stone rolled into the top surface. This meant that most of the contact with the road was with a clean stone surface.
    Then it was changed so the stones are pre-mixed with the gungy tar and the whole lot laid and levelled. Thus all the stones have a coating of oily tar. Contact with a newly laid road is therefore entirely onto an oily surface. It takes weeks or even months for the surface oil to wash and wear away.

    So yes, for some years now new blacktop has been lethal on 2 wheels. Even 4 wheels won’t stop very quickly on it. There were loads of complaints from cyclist and motorcyclist groups when this change occurred. No reversal or redress is gonna happen though.

    Err, that’s not quite the case. Asphalt mix is prepared in an asphalt plant then carried in trucks to site, where it’s tipped into an asphalt paver. Bitumen is used to bind the stones together, not tar. The asphalt is mostly stone and contains only a small percentage of asphalt. Some oils are present on the surface initially. Yes, anti-skid properties can be poor initially as I said. However, this method of road construction is quicker, more efficient and delivers a smoother and longer lasting surface than the old fashioned techniques.

    That’s not quite the case either. There has been a change in surfacing over the last 10 years or so. Traditionally an asphalt mix containing a variety of smaller aggregates (stones and sand) was laid and larger sized chipping rolled in as a separate operation. This is known as HRA with chips. Now more commonly an asphalt mix of stones with a higher proportion of sand is used and no chippings are rolled in. This is known as SMA.

    The difference is that the chips stuck out from the surface and provided the skid resistance in HRA but in SMA the skid resistance is provided by the smaller stones which are part of the asphalt mix. This is fine once the bitumen has worn off the stones at the surface however until then SMA has poor skid resistance for a couple of weeks or so after laying. This is pretty commonly understood so SMA surfacing usually has warning signs put up when laid. For some reason horses are particularly affected – I think the British Horse Society had a campaign about it.

    Anyway, back to our horizontal friend who posted. If the surfacing was SMA and no signs were evident you may get a sympathetic hearing from the highway authority if you can demonstrate this was the case. Not sure you would have sufficient grounds to sue them but they may make an offer of compensation? I’d imagine you would need some evidence in the way of photos etc. As it was a month or more ago you may be too late to take them now though.

    Sorry if all that was a bit dull! :B
    Oh and hardly anyone calls it Tarmac any more in the industry.

    November 12, 2014 at 4:49 pm #820633
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    Simon_MacMichael

    OldRidgeback wrote:MKultra

    OldRidgeback wrote:
    MKultra wrote:
    The English term is the eponym “Tarmac”.

    Or even “Tar Macadam”, also once known as a “metalled road”.

    Yes new tarmac can be greasy but it’s not as bad as people think, certainly not as bad as the current levels of diesel contamination.

    The word tarmac isn’t used in the construction sector as it’s too easily confused with the construction firm Tarmac. Asphalt is the internationally accepted term and has been for many years. Otherwise though, you’re correct.

    It may be an “eponym,” but it’s also a registered trademark (and yes, we’ve had the email from the company pointing that out).

    Presumably that’s the main reason it’s avoided in the construction industry, unless specifically talking about the firm/product?

    I don’t suppose a vacuum cleaner salesman would talk about a ‘hoover’ when flogging you an Electrolux or Henry (though Henry the Hoover has a nice alliterative and bisyllabic ring to it).

    And avoid ‘portakabin’ when talking about generic temporary buildings – they’re quite fond of the standard letter too. Tempted to flush them down the portaloo 😉

    November 12, 2014 at 4:08 pm #820631
    0
    MKultra

    OldRidgeback wrote:MKultra

    OldRidgeback wrote:
    MKultra wrote:
    The English term is the eponym “Tarmac”.

    Or even “Tar Macadam”, also once known as a “metalled road”.

    Yes new tarmac can be greasy but it’s not as bad as people think, certainly not as bad as the current levels of diesel contamination.

    The word tarmac isn’t used in the construction sector as it’s too easily confused with the construction firm Tarmac. Asphalt is the internationally accepted term and has been for many years. Otherwise though, you’re correct.

    Thats funny as we sell Tarmac and call it errr…Tarmac.

    November 12, 2014 at 3:51 pm #820629
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    OldRidgeback

    double post
    double post

    November 12, 2014 at 3:49 pm #820627
    0
    OldRidgeback

    MKultra wrote:The English

    MKultra wrote:
    The English term is the eponym “Tarmac”.

    Or even “Tar Macadam”, also once known as a “metalled road”.

    Yes new tarmac can be greasy but it’s not as bad as people think, certainly not as bad as the current levels of diesel contamination.

    The word tarmac isn’t used in the construction sector as it’s too easily confused with the construction firm Tarmac. Asphalt is the internationally accepted term and has been for many years. Otherwise though, you’re correct.

    November 12, 2014 at 3:48 pm #820625
    0
    OldRidgeback

    racyrich wrote:The way

    racyrich wrote:
    The way asphalt is laid was changed a few years back. Previous the gungy tar mix was poured and levelled, then finally stone rolled into the top surface. This meant that most of the contact with the road was with a clean stone surface.
    Then it was changed so the stones are pre-mixed with the gungy tar and the whole lot laid and levelled. Thus all the stones have a coating of oily tar. Contact with a newly laid road is therefore entirely onto an oily surface. It takes weeks or even months for the surface oil to wash and wear away.

    So yes, for some years now new blacktop has been lethal on 2 wheels. Even 4 wheels won’t stop very quickly on it. There were loads of complaints from cyclist and motorcyclist groups when this change occurred. No reversal or redress is gonna happen though.

    Err, that’s not quite the case. Asphalt mix is prepared in an asphalt plant then carried in trucks to site, where it’s tipped into an asphalt paver. Bitumen is used to bind the stones together, not tar. The asphalt is mostly stone and contains only a small percentage of asphalt. Some oils are present on the surface initially. Yes, anti-skid properties can be poor initially as I said. However, this method of road construction is quicker, more efficient and delivers a smoother and longer lasting surface than the old fashioned techniques.

    November 12, 2014 at 3:12 pm #820623
    0
    MKultra

    The English term is the
    The English term is the eponym “Tarmac”.

    Or even “Tar Macadam”, also once known as a “metalled road”.

    Yes new tarmac can be greasy but it’s not as bad as people think, certainly not as bad as the current levels of diesel contamination.

    November 12, 2014 at 2:49 pm #820621
    0
    Kapelmuur

    I was behind a couple of
    I was behind a couple of horses on a stretch of newly resurfaced road last Sunday and called out to the riders asking if it was safe to pass. They said OK, but to be careful as the surface was slippery, whereupon the back legs of one horse slipped from under it.

    Luckily no damage to horse or rider.

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