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mtbtomo.
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August 12, 2014 at 10:17 am #22137
Maggers
Having seen plenty of threads on the forums about sportives not being races and that people should “pin a number on and go and join a real race” I’m intrigued; how fast do you have to be to stand a chance in a race? How long are they? Do you need a super duper unobtainium frame with a groupset powered by electrickery to stand a chance of competing?
Anyone out there got any experiences of their first ever race?
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wayno265
Every race I competed in at
Every race I competed in at Cat 3/4 averaged 25mph (+/- 1mph). As others have said it’s more about your ability to react to attacks and recover, bike handling, positioning and general race craft.I was a reasonable sprinter, and either came in the top 10 or got dropped.
It’s a buzz, but requires good fitness and a lot of concentration.
Maggers
Just to make my case I’ve got
Just to make my case I’ve got no intention of racing just yet. I used to play competitive team sport and cycling is a breath of fresh air. I can get up early on a Sunday morning and just got for a ride or call a couple of mates and see if they are up for it. Just riding for the hell of it.I was just intrigued if the people that are slated for ‘racing sportives’ would actually be capable of categorised racing.
Hunting out and testing myself on new hills with the occasional sportive like london100 for the closed roads is what I’m about at the moment. I’m sure one day the lure of finding out what this racing lark is all about may be unavoidable.
Maggers
Just to make my case I’ve got
Just to make my case I’ve got no intention of racing just yet. I used to play competitive team sport and cycling is a breath of fresh air. I can get up early on a Sunday morning and just got for a ride or call a couple of mates and see if they are up for it. Just riding for the hell of it.I was just intrigued if the people that are slated for ‘racing sportives’ would actually be capable of categorised racing.
Hunting out and testing myself on new hills with the occasional sportive like london100 for the closed roads is what I’m about at the moment. I’m sure one day the lure of finding out what this racing lark is all about may be unavoidable.
Jimmy Ray Will
To race or not to race, that
To race or not to race, that is the question….It depends on how bitter and cynical you are… if challenging yourself is enough and you are satisfied, then no, stick to sportives as the experience is far better.
If however, you need to compete with your fellow man, to see the whites of their eyes, and accordingly want to make every ride a competition of sorts, then hell yeah, give racing a go.
The biggest downer of racing over sportives is the yes/no element of racing. In a bunch over a given course you are going to be asked a series of ‘questions’ with your ability to respond to these deciding if you remain in the race or not.
Everything centres around these questions, and nothing else matters. What this means is that looking at average speed is not that relevant (after a certain level). The averages seen in your average 4th cat race will not differ significantly from those seen in your average E12 race, however the nature in which those speeds are attained will be different. On certain courses on certain days, I’ve hit nearly 70kph on the flat responding to attacks (massive tailwind mind), and its those extreme efforts, both in frequency, extremity and duration that differentiate the categories.
The point of entry for racing is quite high… certainly 4th cat racing starts at the upper end of silver medal standard of sportive riding at least.
As I understand it, the reason there is this call for competitive sportive riders to race, is that for those that race, the differences between the disciplines is stark and significant and it can be grating for racers to hear sportive riders talking about their ‘racing’ achievements.
dave atkinson
My first race was a crit at
My first race was a crit at Odd Down, which is reasonably flat but makes up for it by being unhelpfully windy. I was spat out after half a dozen laps and finished with an average of about 36km/h, Ed who came second was nudging 40km/h for the 45-odd minutes of the race.My advice would be to try a closed-road circuit first. The laps aren’t very long and it doesn’t really matter if you get dropped, plus it’s about as safe a place as there is to learn the skills for bunch riding. I did my first race on a £1200 alloy road bike, nothing fancy.
Le Banana
I can’t comment on the state
I can’t comment on the state of racing as a whole, but here’s my experience from racing in the North East, in mainly 3/4s and almost exclusively crits.As the races were crits the average speeds usually hung around 38-40 Km/h for between 45mins-1:30, breaks were unusual with the field typically all piling in for an all out sprint finish. However attacks on the last couple of laps tended to stay away, if the riders were fairly strong, as few people have the experience/legs to chase down breaks properly and many are saving their legs for the sprint by that point.
I am very much the fat lad at the back of my club, my FTP is somewhere between 300 and 330W, with a sprint of just over 1.1 kW, but I weight 75Kg so I’m useless as soon as the road heads upwards. With numbers similar to these (assuming I haven’t changed much) you’ll probably find yourself just about able to be at the pointy end of 4th or 3rd cat races, but I haven’t won anything.
The higher categories in my club tend to weigh a lot less and clearly put out a higher threshold effort, I know one guy at around 380W, but the most important aspect in crit racing is the ability to recover after going into the red for a bit to charge out of corners/onto the bunch when things get a bit frisky.
Level of equipment varies hugely, lots of top end “Pro” bikes, lots of deep sections, the amount of money spent on equipment at low levels has no bearing on final placing whatsoever, it’s all about fitness, a solid half of the top 10 seem to be on winter bikes for the more tight circuits.
Bike handling and awareness etc. are important, someone clued up that sits at but not on the front will save a huge amount of effort and will probably be able to easily beat much fitter riders.
Important thing to note is that in the lower categories the bunch can get thinned down quite a lot, so there’s certainly no shame in getting dropped and it’s probably best to at least give it a go for the fun of it.
Crosshair
That’s why I’d not consider a
That’s why I’d not consider a road race then- I’m way too slow!
30mile solo average, 1200ft climbing is just over 17mph.I tried CX last year and compared to XC I got annihilated!!
It seems living like a monk and training like a man possessed are the first requirements for any serious racing.
Which leaves sportives for fun no??
KirinChris
I’ve raced for the last few
I’ve raced for the last few years here in Dubai but didn’t have a UK race licence so I decided to remedy that this year and maybe my experience will shed some light.My Cat 4 races were on flattish circuits (Hillingdon and Preston Park at Brighton, which is basically just a big outdoor velodrome).
At Hillingdon I got in a break of 4 and we stayed away most of the race, which is unusual in Cat 4. It was an hour-long circuit and that particular day was truly horrible wind and rain. Our average was 35.8 km/h and my avg power was 296 watts.
The next Hillingdon race was average 36.4 km/h and 288 watts. So faster speed, lower power because it all stayed together. Came nowhere.
Third race, at Preston Park, I won (which gave me the points to go into Cat 3). Tried to make some breaks but couldn’t get away, so stayed in the bunch for the second half, saved energy, moved up and won the sprint. (It’s nice when a plan comes off !) Average speed 38.3 km/h, avg power 285 watts.
Then I did a Cat 3 road race around Dunsfold (the road circuit not the airfield). Got in a break of 5 for about half the race (total time 2 and a quarter hours). Average speed 38.6 km/h and avg pwr 282 watts. That included 700m climbing so it was pretty hard.
Compare that to some of my races out here, but there are no categories, everyone is together. A flat circuit race of 2 hours riding mostly in the bunch had an avg speed of 37.1 km/h but power only 257 watts.
A lumpy race of 3 hours and 1200m climbing where I was in a long break/lead bunch had an average of 35.9 km/h and 281 watts.
So I guess if you have a local club you could go out with the A ride and see if you can keep up with a bunch averaging 36km/h or more. It’s more about what power you can put out, how many times – and if you are in a break can you sustain it again and again. If you can do that then you will probably do well in Cat 4/Cat 3 racing, but even if you don’t it’s still worth a try.
But beyond speed and power, a huge part of racing is also about positioning and awareness – you can have the legs but you have to be in the right place at the right time and you will never learn that any other way. To be good at racing you have to race.
It will also make you a better rider on your club run.
As for sportives, eventually you will hate them. ~X(
notfastenough
“people should “pin a number
“people should “pin a number on and go and join a real race”…how fast do you have to be to stand a chance in a race?”And here you’ve hit the nail on the head – people ride sportives to improve on last year’s time over the same course – there’s a massive difference between trying to beat your (for example) 16mph average from last year, and maintaining a 23-25mph average that you’d find in a race. Not that I’m suggesting that it’s ok for people to ride like a complete tool on a sportive, drop their gel wrappers on the road and generally behave like a knob, but sportives do have their place.
Chris James
By the way, check out Dave’s
By the way, check out Dave’s blog as he has just written about his first race!Chris James
You don’t need an expensive
You don’t need an expensive bike though. In fact, lower category racing is a high crash risk activity, and having cheapish equipment to replace is not a bad idea. Alloy frame, 105/Tiagra level gear is fine.The guys in my club that race cat 3/4 do our (quite rolling) club 10 in 23 – 24 minutes to give you an idea.
With the benefit of drafting I would say that the post above, saying 25mph, sounds about right for a circuit race.
Martyn_K
Don’t know the answer to your
Don’t know the answer to your question and i would imagine that the standard could vary per region.I have a couple of riding buddies who race. The last race one of them did was 53 miles at an average of 25mph, 2000ft of climbing (only one stinging climb per lap). He placed mid pack.
Gotta say that when they light up the club runs both are difficult to stay with.
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