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surly_by_name.
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June 6, 2014 at 7:33 pm #21616
Shep73
Now on a mountain bike they are invaluable, i use one of the best on my MTB but today I realised that I think they could a waste of time on a road bike. attacking a descent on a road ride today and I’m doing 45mph, I see a car so I slow to 30 but I’m on it in no time, the next thing the car stops on the hill. Now admittedly I was getting close, so although she stopped it was more my fault than hers. But anyway I hit the brakes (Ultegra units) and I ain’t stopping, all I’m doing is sliding along with the back end coming around on me. I manage to see a gap on her inside and just point for it.
I actually didn’t stop until I was past her front door. So if my braking had got the better of my grip with rim brakes, what will disc brakes do. As an experienced Road/mountain biker (trail, XC and downhill), All I can see is less control in emergency situations. Also people wasting money on a new fad.
I think my mountain biking helped me but I did shit myself. It was more instinct than calm control.
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Shep73
glynr36 wrote:And MTB tyre
glynr36 wrote:And MTB tyre has better grip off road.
On road it doesn’t grip better than a road tyre.You’re just blaming your brakes/tyres for what was getting yourself in a situation you very nearly couldn’t get out of.
Ride more aware and with in your abilities/the conditions.
That’s utter rubbish, a mtb tyre will grip far more than any road tyre on the road. Mechanical grip comes from the squish of the tyre, which forces it into the surface. The tyre hooks up into the tarmacs uneven surface. A road tyre will not do this as efficiently due to width and tyre pressures.I’m also not blaming my brakes, I’m just making an observation that powerful brakes are only as good as the rubber/tyre type that’s underneath you. I’m also more than capable as a rider.
glynr36
And MTB tyre has better grip
And MTB tyre has better grip off road.
On road it doesn’t grip better than a road tyre.You’re just blaming your brakes/tyres for what was getting yourself in a situation you very nearly couldn’t get out of.
Ride more aware and with in your abilities/the conditions.Shep73
Gordy748 wrote:Discs are
Gordy748 wrote:Discs are generally better for all-round road riding, particularly winter training and commuting in the rain. They don’t eat through rims like rim brakes, and they will stop much better in wet weather.There are some caveats, though. What determines how fast you can stop is not the brake type, but the traction of your front tire, your total weight and your center of gravity. While disc brakes do help you reach your maximum stopping velocity quicker than rim brakes, the increased power, if you’re not used to it, can cause you to unwittingly exceed your front tire’s traction, at which point it skids and down you go.
Discs don’t cool nearly as well as rims, so if you’re on a long descent, say in the alps, discs are more susceptible to overheating and, consequently, fading. This can be very dangerous. That said, I’d prefer disc brakes to carbon clinchers; carbon builds and retains heat so it can lead to a tire blowing out. This will result in a dead cert crash.
Discs require a different frame design, with significantly stronger forks and stays. For steel bikes this isn’t a big factor, but on carbon race machines (cyclocross mainly) I’ve heard lots of complaints about carbon disc frames feeling dull and wooden. Because of this I don’t think discs will be a big factor in race bikes. Also, they’re heavier and less aerodynamic than rim brakes. Sure, the difference is fractional, but when breaks are made and races are one by inches, it’s hard to see why you’d choose discs.
Good post, I have over heated my brakes on the mtb on descents. I now use Ice Techs which do help. But at least a mtb has better grip which is the biggest factor in stopping so in hard braking situations you will stop.
Gordy748
Discs are generally better
Discs are generally better for all-round road riding, particularly winter training and commuting in the rain. They don’t eat through rims like rim brakes, and they will stop much better in wet weather.There are some caveats, though. What determines how fast you can stop is not the brake type, but the traction of your front tire, your total weight and your center of gravity. While disc brakes do help you reach your maximum stopping velocity quicker than rim brakes, the increased power, if you’re not used to it, can cause you to unwittingly exceed your front tire’s traction, at which point it skids and down you go.
Discs don’t cool nearly as well as rims, so if you’re on a long descent, say in the alps, discs are more susceptible to overheating and, consequently, fading. This can be very dangerous. That said, I’d prefer disc brakes to carbon clinchers; carbon builds and retains heat so it can lead to a tire blowing out. This will result in a dead cert crash.
Discs require a different frame design, with significantly stronger forks and stays. For steel bikes this isn’t a big factor, but on carbon race machines (cyclocross mainly) I’ve heard lots of complaints about carbon disc frames feeling dull and wooden. Because of this I don’t think discs will be a big factor in race bikes. Also, they’re heavier and less aerodynamic than rim brakes. Sure, the difference is fractional, but when breaks are made and races are one by inches, it’s hard to see why you’d choose discs.
Gordy748
Discs are generally better
Discs are generally better for all-round road riding, particularly winter training and commuting in the rain. They don’t eat through rims like rim brakes, and they will stop much better in wet weather.There are some caveats, though. What determines how fast you can stop is not the brake type, but the traction of your front tire, your total weight and your center of gravity. While disc brakes do help you reach your maximum stopping velocity quicker than rim brakes, the increased power, if you’re not used to it, can cause you to unwittingly exceed your front tire’s traction, at which point it skids and down you go.
Discs don’t cool nearly as well as rims, so if you’re on a long descent, say in the alps, discs are more susceptible to overheating and, consequently, fading. This can be very dangerous. That said, I’d prefer disc brakes to carbon clinchers; carbon builds and retains heat so it can lead to a tire blowing out. This will result in a dead cert crash.
Discs require a different frame design, with significantly stronger forks and stays. For steel bikes this isn’t a big factor, but on carbon race machines (cyclocross mainly) I’ve heard lots of complaints about carbon disc frames feeling dull and wooden. Because of this I don’t think discs will be a big factor in race bikes. Also, they’re heavier and less aerodynamic than rim brakes. Sure, the difference is fractional, but when breaks are made and races are one by inches, it’s hard to see why you’d choose discs.
dave atkinson
it’s a bit of a straw man
it’s a bit of a straw man argument, really. you got yourself into a situation where no amount of braking would have allowed you to stop in time. that doesn’t really have any bearing on whether discs are better than rim brakes.disc brakes won’t stop you any quicker on a dry road in fine conditions; we know that and i proved it to myself when i chucked two bikes down Mt Etna last year:
http://road.cc/content/blog/96531-shimano-road-discs-final-thoughts-now
they’ll stop you a sight quicker in the pissing cold rain on wet rims though, especially if those rims are carbon. that’s a stone cold fact as far as i’m concerned and i’d challenge anyone who’s used shimano’s new hydraulic discs to tell me otherwise. they’ll not ruin those carbon rims on gritty winter rides either. and they’ll stop your hands cramping up on tricky, dangerous descents.
we go over this a lot. the maximum braking force is a distant third behind two other factors: the ease of applying that power, and the consistency of that power in all conditions. that’s what makes disc brakes better brakes.
Shep73
I’m not saying that the
I’m not saying that the brakes themselves are any worse in terms of performance, my point is the tyres, road tyres don’t have the grip that mtb tyres have or the squish. So if you do get in a situation of having to brake hard, you have more chance of sliding rather than slowing down. As for skill, I guess you didn’t watch the Giro where riders had no time to react in a controlled environment on a closed road? you will skid no matter who you are on a road bike.As for riding at speed on roads, I have always done so and this is the first time I have had to hit the brakes in this manner and I am more than well aware of whats going on around me as I stated. I started to react to her coming into view, I also stated I didn’t have disc brakes, and as for the conditions? sunny, dry roads, the conditions were fine. Considering I ride with a lot of riders who go the same pace and none of us have died yet I would say it’s no more dangerous than some idiot going up the inside of a lorry at 5mph.
mattsccm
Yes they are.
You have proved
Yes they are.
You have proved yourself that its not the equipment that’s dangerous but the rider.
You want your head testing to be riding on open roads with cars about at that speed. Just as a car driver would for driving faster than the road conditions allow. Its fair enough on closed roads but you have proved that the conditions were not acceptable as it went wrong. The brakes were not to know but you should have made that assessment.
Its not a personal attack, and I would defend your right to do so in the right circumstance, but the same applies when a car driver tail ends another in a traffic queue or can’t stop at legal speeds when a deer walks out or maybe a dim-witted kid.
The brakes work, humans don’t use them properly.
In most circumstances (exceptions are largely red herrings in most things in this world) disc brakes are more effective. What may not illustrate this is how or when they are used.
Disc brakes have few if any disadvantages. They do have some advantages. Power is the main one. I have very short fingers which means that basically its hard to get a decent pull on any brake. The fact that discs give more oomph makes up for my limited power. I do wonder if the deaths of those two women recently would have happened if they had been using discs? The inquest for the one in Devon??? suggested that she had “cyclists palsy”. Daft term to describe either the numbness cyclists get in their hands or the aches that happen on long descents if you hold the brakes for a long time. The death in Winnats pass fits that general theory as well. Just wondering of course.
Nope. To say that disc brakes are dangerous is wrong. They just didn’t work for you in that situation and can you prove that rim brakes would have done so?movingtarget
I have Ultegra rim brakes on
I have Ultegra rim brakes on my road bike and my husband has Tektro mech disc brakes on his commuter bike (Jamis Nova) and in heavy rain going downhill he has much better stopping power than I do. We were going downhill in the rain with a 5-7% grade only going 20-25 mph and I had front and rear brakes fully engaged and it took me 2-3 times the distance to slow than he could with just a few pumps of his disc brakes. When it’s dry I can pretty much stop whenever I need to and there doesn’t seem to much of a difference between us. Looking forward to getting a disc braked ‘cross bike for the winter/wet months so I’m not limited to flatter rides this winter.Jack Osbourne snr
I use discs for commuting
I use discs for commuting because I ride all year round and they don’t suffer from the same loss of performance in the rain as rim brakes do. I need to be able to stop or scrub off speed quickly, reliably and predictably. Discs give me that in wet weather as well as dry.I use rim brakes quite happily at the weekend because the emergency stop is less of a certainty. However, I need to be much more aware of how well each brake is functioning at any given moment and need to make sure that I ride and brake within a much smaller window of effective performance when it comes to avoiding hazards.
So… In answer to you question, yes discs are “safer”. However, what’s more important is your braking technique, skill in handling the bike at speed, observation and anticipation.
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