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Miles253.
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December 6, 2013 at 12:08 pm #20312
Neil753
It sounds daft, maybe even galling, but would this work for the mutual benefit of everyone? This is my argument.
People are getting used to picking up their on line purchases at high street “collection points”. But would you trust your local corner shop to take care of that fragile delivery? Maybe not.
But what if you addressed your parcel c/o your LBS, and they charged you a quid?
It gives you an excuse to grab a free coffee, hang out with other cyclists, and get support from your LBS to maybe fit the part, while you wait, for a reasonable fee.
And it gives the LBS a chance to earn an extra quid, perhaps dozens of times each week, picking up extra shop sales, some more workshop income, and a chance to build their presence in the community.
Ok, a disgruntled LBS proprietor, determined to ignore the rise and rise of on line sales, might be aghast at the idea, but enlightened entrepreneurs might see my idea as an interesting one. And one that could help save the traditional LBS that we all love, but hardly visit anymore.
Opinions wanted please.
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I think that with traffic to
I think that with traffic to online retailers constantly growing, LBS should take what ever advantage can be taken from that. As others have said, a lost sale is a lost sale. However if that sale that might have never come Anywhere near the lbs, to actually gain 10 or 15 quid for fitting and delivery surcharge might actually be beneficial. They way to do it might be to give conditions for the service, if it’s delivered here it must be fitted here ( not thinking of bike fits here).that way the lbs has guaranteed money coming in from online sales, they get the chance to make new customers and add on sales and the online retailer losers nothing either.Not sure, but I think it could be a salvation against the decline of the lbs
@glynr36 – Re: “I think it’s
@glynr36 – Re: “I think it’s the way for the LBS to go if they want to survive, take advantage of the next day delivery many online dealers offer, and make the money on fixing and fitting.”As we move towards sustainable, localised economies, and as more and more people give up their cars (or purchase a utility bike for shorter trips), I have a hunch that basic repair workshops may become more common. Thanks for the input.
@ hampstead_bandit – “make sure workshop can actually undertake jobs if tool-specific/skill specific”.
I agree. A bike mechanic qualification is a no brainer. Even “bread and butter” bikes can require specialised tools and knowledge. But, in a way, that is to the advantage of the trained mechanic; the more complex bikes become, the less likely bike owners are to have the tools. Thanks for your input.
cristiansupernova
Uumm, sorry i got a bit
Uumm, sorry i got a bit carried away.I did fit a disc brake today that one of our regulars had sent to us from crc, i charged him a tenner. (For the record)
Neil753 – i am a ibd owner,
Neil753 – i am a ibd owner, have been in the trade for 23 years..and have worked (indirectly) for chainreaction..And hell yes, we have some plans for 2014 and beyond. I also have my thoughts on how things may well pan out in future..
I do believe that simply opening the doors to display and sell your wares may well not be enough in the future, and it would take a period of time and only a few big brands to change the way they sell, kickstarting a chainreaction that would begin the decline of IBDs.. i hope im wrong.
Regardless, we do run a very passionate business, its not been easy, but amazing fun! we do everything we can (whilst still trying to pay a million bills) and do actually have a positive attitude towards online sales. I lost a sale on a £1200 road bike today, we coulndt get it fast enough, so the guy bought the bike from wiggle. Would have been nice to get the bike for him, we have a vat bill due, paye to pay,and in a few days 3months of rent for next year.
However, with a smile i said its fine, you winyou lose, shit happens, even offered to set the bike upfor him. Of course i didnt give the above sob story, we always have to remain positive after all. He is a regular, and uses us lots.
Generally, i love the challenge of business, i love the risk element, the idea that everything we buy and stock and display is all a risk. And i love it when it works. Like when someone buys a bike from us,and love riding it. Just like i do.. there are so many varibles to bikeshops, its crazy. They bring people together! We have so many stories..
hampstead_bandit
Receiving on-line purchases
Receiving on-line purchases (admin fee applied) and then fitting parts in a workshop could work well for an LBS as long as workshop pricing reflects costs+marginAdditionally there would need to be a system between on-line retailers and LBS to make sure workshop can actually undertake jobs if tool-specific/skill specific (I.e. campag or di2) parts are being shipped
glynr36
My LBS works in this manner
My LBS works in this manner (kind of).
Does mainly repairs/wheel builds, buys parts in as and when people want them and usually from where ever is cheapest (Distro or CRC etc). As well as assembly of online bought bikes.Seems to work well for him, he doesn’t have capital tied up in stock, people buying components are getting them fitted by him, and I assume he makes the ‘profit’ on labour & doing repair work, when I was in last his rack was rammed full so can’t be doing too bad for business really.
Also helps that he does the usual of a decent LBS of helping people out when they need it, he’s chucked me a few Fulcrum spokes & nipples when I snapped one before a trip away, tweaked the gears for me when I went passed on a ride and so on.I think it’s the way for the LBS to go if they want to survive, take advantage of the next day delivery many online dealers offer, and make the money on fixing and fitting.
@ Chuck – re: the cost of
@ Chuck – re: the cost of having a range of sizes, and the space that range takes up.I agree, it must be a problem. I think that’s why bikes ended up in “t-shirt sizes” with “heath robinson” spacer front ends; euphemistically marketed as an aid to changing position, but bonkers for the rider (heavier, less aero, weaker main triangle) and just more profitable for the industry. I can see the need for space when selling clothing, but I suspect that many riders are “showrooming” (ie paying a visit to their LBS and then buying on line); I know that’s what I do, although I do it at a LBS that doesn’t even have the courtesy to say hello when I come through the door, and charges top whack for some of the gear I’ve bought, so there’s no guilt. One thing I won’t do, though, is ask questions in a shop and then buy on line. That isn’t right.
I can definitely see an LBS market for shoes, though, but I know at least one recent cycling convert who never visits his LBS, purely because the LBS took advantage of his naivety with prices, to sell him last year’s shoes at this year’s full rrp, just to clear old stock. And, as all LBS owners ought to be aware, inexperienced cyclists are just as likely to use social networks to “share” their LBS experiences as experienced ones.@ thebungle – some good points. Thank you.
@ Chuck – I’m not suggesting bike shops sell at a loss, I’m suggesting that if they’re not going to make the sale anyway, they might as well offer a pick-up service for a nominal sum, so they can at least have the oportunity to say hello to potential customers, and perhaps tuen those potential customers into actual customers through incidental purchases.
@ 700c – I’m not picking sides here, and I’m sure there are exceptions either way, but I’ve found the after sales service from CRC to be exceptional (I’ve purchased from Wiggle too, but haven’t needed to use their after service). In contrast, two out my four local bike shops are owned by miserable sh*ts who think the world owes them a living. And one of the others exhorts customers to use email but then never replies. One, however, even though their shop is a right old mess, offers exceptional service. Asking for a “price match” is a really good tip – I did that in Staples a few weeks ago, and got a fiver off a cordless phone.
@ hh – But Sainsbury’s isn’t struggling against an overwhelming tide of on-line competitors, is it? What they are doing is bending over backwards to accommodate customers and, crucially, recognising the increasing trend for savvy buyers to do their shopping in more than one supermarket. In fact, you may have noticed that supermarkets, and many other outlets, often set price differentials between their on line prices and their store prices, which you can then pick up in the store using their version of “click and collect” In other words, they understand that some income from savvy customers is better than no income. If dual pricing, coupled with “click and collect”, is good for the likes of Halfords and PC World, and now being introduced even by supermarkets, then it’s a foolish LBS owner who doesn’t at least look at the concept. And certainly, if your local grocery shop can act as an agent for Ebay, there’s nothing to stop cycle shops doing the same thing too; and suddenly, your shop is full of potential customers you’ve never met before.
At the end of the day, it’s just an idea that might appeal to bike shops struggling for survival in an increasingly on line retail environment.
Just curious – are you an LBS owner? If so, I’d be interested in your views about how you think things will pan out over the next few years and, in particular, how you view the (potentially) huge increase in utility cyclists who may want to get their bikes fixed, but not at the sort labour rates being charged at their costly to run, multi staffed bike shop?
Jimmy Ray Will
I see the merits in this, and
I see the merits in this, and having worked in the industry will admit to ordering parts from online retailers rather than distributors as the potential margins are greater… to clarify, online prices can, and are regularly less than trade prices available to a LBS.I wouldn’t necessarily charge a quid either… just getting someone into the shop and chatting to you (even better if they think they owe you one) is a win in itself. The way I see it, an online sale is a lost sale anyway, why not at least cash in on an opportunity to build a relationship. More than likely you’ll pick up some sundry purchases, and some labour in the process.
The reality is people will shop to their needs… if they know what they want, then they’ll order online as its cheaper… if they need service, or insight, then they should find their way to the LBS. Being bitter about that will not make you more money as a LBS owner… Build relationships and benefit from the long game returns, by making sure that when they need the LBS, they come to you.
hh
“Hi is that Sainsburys? I’ve
“Hi is that Sainsburys? I’ve just done a big online shop with Tesco because they’re a bit cheaper than you, but I don’t want to wait around for the delivery, do you mind clearing a bit of space in your back room and I’ll come and grab it when I can. I’ll give you a quid to make it worth your while, and I might even pick up a few bits and bobs too. Hello… hello… are you still there?…”700c
If you want to support your
If you want to support your LBS – then do so, by taking your bike to them for servicing, buying parts and getting them fitted, buying whole bikes etcI would suggest the proposal made by the OP is a bit patronizing to the LBS and demeans the real value that they have to the local consumer.
Yes many things are cheaper online, but don’t expect the after sales service and expert advice from CRC or Wiggle – good though they are – they will never compete with a good LBS on after-sales service. Generally you get what you pay for.
Oh and many retailers will be prepared to price match – or come down in price – if they find themselves particularly ‘overpriced’ compared to the internet
Chuck
thebungle wrote:Chuck
thebungle wrote:Chuck wrote:What if ‘LBS labour rates’ are what that LBS needs to charge to make it worth doing? OK, there might well be some wiggle room but a common sentiment on here and other places seems to be that LBSs have no business sense if they don’t sell everything below RRP and do all repairs in return for a smile and a packet of biscuits. It’s all very well saying they can then cash in further down the line once they’ve built up this ‘relationship’ with the punter, but I’d imagine the number of regulars who won’t ever have their heads turned by great offers from the internet big boys is pretty low. So where does the income come from?With Wiggle I can have any item from any brand I want at a good price.
From my LBS I’m limited to the brands they stock, often at ‘ridiculous’ prices, £120 for Ultegra pedals when they are almost half price online?
Don’t get me wrong, I’ve bought two bikes, a set of wheels and plenty of other kit this year alone from my LBS and I greatly value their help & advice.
I wonder if the shops selling higher end stuff such as Castelli etc are finding it any easier than those who stock the likes of Altura, I always find those shops, despite them providing very good technical assistance never actually encourage me to want to spend my money in them.
I’m not really flying the flag for LBSs here, I rarely use bricks and mortar shops myself for more or less the same reasons you give. Apart from actually swinging a leg over a bike there’s no real USP over the internet IME.
But the common refrain seems to be that in order to compete shops should charge less while giving better service, and if they miss ‘opportunities’ to sell stuff at a loss or do some work for nothing then they deserve to go out of business. And I can’t see how it can be as simple as that.thebungle
Chuck wrote:What if ‘LBS
Chuck wrote:What if ‘LBS labour rates’ are what that LBS needs to charge to make it worth doing? OK, there might well be some wiggle room but a common sentiment on here and other places seems to be that LBSs have no business sense if they don’t sell everything below RRP and do all repairs in return for a smile and a packet of biscuits. It’s all very well saying they can then cash in further down the line once they’ve built up this ‘relationship’ with the punter, but I’d imagine the number of regulars who won’t ever have their heads turned by great offers from the internet big boys is pretty low. So where does the income come from?With Wiggle I can have any item from any brand I want at a good price.
From my LBS I’m limited to the brands they stock, often at ‘ridiculous’ prices, £120 for Ultegra pedals when they are almost half price online?
Don’t get me wrong, I’ve bought two bikes, a set of wheels and plenty of other kit this year alone from my LBS and I greatly value their help & advice.
I wonder if the shops selling higher end stuff such as Castelli etc are finding it any easier than those who stock the likes of Altura, I always find those shops, despite them providing very good technical assistance never actually encourage me to want to spend my money in them.
Neil753 wrote:@
Neil753 wrote:@ cristiansupernova – No, I don’t run a bike shop, but operating costs will similar to other retail outlets of similar size.I don’t run a bike shop either, but I imagine one overhead that bike shops have that might be more unique is the cost of having a range of sizes, and the space that range takes up. If you are a clothes shop stocking a particular coat (say) it’s not likely to cost >£1k for each one in each size, and you can probably keep 10-20 of them in the space you need to keep 1 bike. I dunno, maybe this is rubbish though!
Other problem is that it seems people aren’t willing to pay much for work.
Neil753 wrote:I’ve got four bike shops within ten miles of my house, and all of them are failing to maximise their returns, with a huge community of cyclists out there, half of whom probably buy on line, and the other half unlikely to want to pay LBS labour rates to fix their utility bikes.What if ‘LBS labour rates’ are what that LBS needs to charge to make it worth doing? OK, there might well be some wiggle room but a common sentiment on here and other places seems to be that LBSs have no business sense if they don’t sell everything below RRP and do all repairs in return for a smile and a packet of biscuits. It’s all very well saying they can then cash in further down the line once they’ve built up this ‘relationship’ with the punter, but I’d imagine the number of regulars who won’t ever have their heads turned by great offers from the internet big boys is pretty low. So where does the income come from?
@ cristiansupernova – No, I
@ cristiansupernova – No, I don’t run a bike shop, but operating costs will similar to other retail outlets of similar size. If it took several years before you turned a profit then you have my sympathies. I originally posted this because I’ve got four bike shops within ten miles of my house, and all of them are failing to maximise their returns, with a huge community of cyclists out there, half of whom probably buy on line, and the other half unlikely to want to pay LBS labour rates to fix their utility bikes. Certainly in my neighbourhood, it’s a problem.@ Forester – Sounds like your LBS is a good one.
@ thebungle – I’m the same. I don’t mind paying a little extra, but I did buy some SPDs on line recently because they were half the LBS price. Generally, it’s 50/50 – half with the LBS and half on line.
@Nzlucas – I do accept that “real shops cost money”, but there is always an element of protectionism, which is only natural. With industry endorsed training, and a “shared workspace” initiative, the cost of entry into the cycle trade (using on line suppliers) would be much cheaper than many people realise, and could easily be sustainable for “one person” operation.
Within that scenario, acting as a collection point for on line purchasers could provide a significant additional income. We’re certainly witnessing some LBS closures because owners are retiring, with no-one willing or able to continue in business, and I guess many of those owners probably only started from very small operations themselves.
I’d certainly like to see some younger people entering the business.
Nzlucas wrote:accept that
Nzlucas wrote:accept that real shops cost money but have a quality that can never be replaced by a internet site.Unfortunately this is increasingly rare, IME anyway.
Still, I don’t see how this would be a goer for an LBS at all.
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