[C6ngnhan]

I saw a bianchi d’italia for sale. I have never seen this kind of bike frame. It still has the Japanese market stamp. I don’t know if it’s real or fake. Can anyone give me some advice please?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGJ7SnubB90
 

Topic

[C6ngnhan]

I bought it for 250usd. I am

I bought it for 250usd. I am a collector and I want to buy it because it looks so different. As for the weld, I find it no different from the roma 4 in my door collection. Hopefully it is a sample (but not produced) or someone who is so passionate about creating this Bianchi Champion D’Italia (Japanese)

https://youtu.be/DJXn-ei11O4

I’ll take a full clip of it after I clean it up. So that people can see it more clearly.
 

[David9694]

Can’t see why you’d go to all

Can’t see why you’d go to all the trouble to fake a mid-range hybrid bike. It looks like the one Also has linked. Whether it’s built by the same factory as the famous Bianchi branded road bikes, heaven only knows. 

[Secret_squirrel]

I’d go 60/40 it’s a rebadged

I’d go 60/40 it’s a rebadged BSO.  But Bianchi do have form for doing weird stuff for the Japanese market.   For evidence I’ve always had a hankering for one of these. (It’s a legitimately rebadged/licensed R&M Birdy).  Mostly I just wanted a Celeste Birdy. And to wierd-out existing Bianchi owners 😀

 

[Chris Hayes]

I bought a used Gios a few

I bought a used Gios a few years ago and emailed the frame number to Gios to find out what type of frame it was, when it was built, etc. and they were able to provide me with a whole host of unexpected detail – because that’s what frame numbers are for: to enable manufacturer’s to authenticate goods and identify who made them and when for QC purposes.  Bianchi is a great and proud company with a long history so I’m sure that they have a department that would be delighted to help. 

When it comes to whether its a fake or not, I’m not sure that there were that many fakes around when this bike was made.  Aluminium bikes aren’t mass produced in the same way as carbon bikes can be (from a mould), so I would be surprised if it was a manufactured fake.  That said, someone could have stuck some Bianchi stickers on a frame at some point, hence the frame number check.  Good luck. Gios replied to me within a couple of days.  Let us know how you get on. 

[Dave Dave]

AlsoSomniloquism wrote:

I think if you were to find pictures of the bottom bracket area of a definitely-genuine version of the same frame, and compare, there’d be an obvious difference.

And that is the problem. I have checked some of the frames out from 10 years ago but because they are coloured differently and taken from 10 feet back, it is hard to judge the welding closely (although some are as messy on the head and seat tubes from the little I can tell). There has been flat bar versions of the Nirone’s built and the named parts are about the same level of gearing has supplied new. 

You appear to have a frame number there you could check with Bianchi. Other than that, the differences between a counterfeit and the real thing will be details – and weight, but you can’t strip it and weigh it. Check stuff like bottle bosses are correct.

Ultimately, if the bike and price suits you, and you’re buying it to ride rather than sell on, I don’t think it matters much whether it’s genuine or not. It’s evidently not a terrible fake (if it is at all), because it’s lasted ten years already. If you can’t even tell without extensive research, it’s good enough for me 🙂

[Secret_squirrel]

 Not sure that’s entirely

 Not sure that’s entirely true.  Cannondale have been doing beautiful Alu welds since at least the 90’s.

[AlsoSomniloquism]

You can get it in flat bar

You can get it in flat bar versions though.

[AlsoSomniloquism]

I think if you were to find

I think if you were to find pictures of the bottom bracket area of a definitely-genuine version of the same frame, and compare, there’d be an obvious difference.

And that is the problem. I have checked some of the frames out from 10 years ago but because they are coloured differently and taken from 10 feet back, it is hard to judge the welding closely (although some are as messy on the head and seat tubes from the little I can tell). There has been flat bar versions of the Nirone’s built and the named parts are about the same level of gearing has supplied new. 

[Captain Badger]

Dave Dave wrote:

Dave Dave wrote:

As far as I know, unless welds are flawed, they’re all sufficiently strong for our purposes. It’s more an aesthetic thing. I’m also not a welder, though. Wider welds might cause more/worse stress risers or something non-obvious like that. I note that I was only pointing out a red flag, not a definite sign. Maybe my expectations for a Bianchi-priced frame are too high. Maybe it’s real, and the welder was hungover :)

Yeah, that’s my understanding. My old tech teach, ex REME and a regular caution, always said that a weld only adequately done was stronger than the surrounding material, so I suppose we might be said to be very much in the realms of diminishing returns in that regard.

Of course on your pride and joy the aesthetic is of great importance, and I in no way mean to trivialise that, and in any case the original question was essentially “is this legit?”, so in light of that I’ll confess my question was merely academic

[Dave Dave]

As far as I know, unless
As far as I know, unless welds are flawed, they’re all sufficiently strong for our purposes. It’s more an aesthetic thing.

I’m also not a welder, though. Wider welds might cause more/worse stress risers or something non-obvious like that.

I note that I was only pointing out a red flag, not a definite sign. Maybe my expectations for a Bianchi-priced frame are too high. Maybe it’s real, and the welder was hungover 🙂

[AlsoSomniloquism]

I believe the ones with

I believe the ones with “invisible” welds use a technique to weld specific hydro formed tubes so the joins are not as severe and they can then double weld to smooth out the look. My £500 pound Boardman uses those techniques where my £1500 canyon doesn’t and the weld of the latter look like the video above where the former could be mistaken for carbon. Whether either is stronger or better depends. I think is less material used (weaker,) but less stress areas from the smoothness (stronger) so kind of equals out. 

[Dave Dave]

On a scale that starts with
On a scale that starts with bike-shaped objects, nice Italian frames are definitely high-end 🙂

Newer methods of welding don’t have much relevance. Good, neat, minimal welding takes time and a lot of skill. It’s just the kind of thing someone would skimp on with a counterfeit.

I think if you were to find pictures of the bottom bracket area of a definitely-genuine version of the same frame, and compare, there’d be an obvious difference.

[ChasP]

Ignoring the welding, a quick

Ignoring the welding, a quick google of Bianci via nirone 7 shows an alloy road bike with carbon forks, not a cheap alloy hybrid.

[Captain Badger]

AlsoSomniloquism wrote:

Trouble is no telling the age of the bike. Newer methods mean smoother and better welds. However 10 years ago they weren’t. And not sure what you are classing as Mid and High end priced but as those were the low end frames for bianchi (Albeit £700-£1000) the welds don’t really confirm it. 

 

Another interesting question: Newer methods might mean smoother and better welds, but does a smoother weld necessarily mean a better weld?

Asking from genuine curiosity, I’m not a welder. 

[AlsoSomniloquism]

Trouble is no telling the age

Trouble is no telling the age of the bike. Newer methods mean smoother and better welds. However 10 years ago they weren’t. And not sure what you are classing as Mid and High end priced but as those were the low end frames for bianchi (Albeit £700-£1000) the welds don’t really confirm it. 

 

[Author]

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