[quiff]

In case of interest to any readers in Wales, the Welsh Assembly Government recently announced its intention to legislate to introduce a default 20mph speed limit on residential roads in Wales, and those regularly used for active travel.

They are consulting on the proposals – you can respond at https://gov.wales/proposal-reduce-speed-limit-20mph-residential-streets . The consultation closes on 1 October 2021. 

Topic

[Bmblbzzz]

Timsen wrote:

If you have a blanket 20mph limit it will be ignored by the public and Police as in the majority of instances such a limit will be inappropriate. Better to concentrate on areas where it is really needed i.e past schools and areas where children may be playing nearby or crossing etc. 

Dare I suggest that these 20 mph limits are sometimes enforced as a “cash cow ” on unsuspecting motorists (& potentially cyclists) whether there is any actual danger in exceedng the limit or not. 

Speed limits in the UK only apply to motorised vehicles, except in very specific cases. 

As for being a cash cow, that would require knowing who keeps the fine money, which I think varies, and whether it covered enforcement costs. If the effect is to keep vehicle speeds down, what’s bad about it?

[Bmblbzzz]

wycombewheeler wrote:

Bmblbzzz wrote:

We’ve got 20mph limits on almost all streets and roads in Bristol. It’s treated by drivers and I expect by police the same way as 30mph limits: broken but not ignored. Just as the de facto speed limit in a 30mph area might be 40mph, so it will be around 30mph in a 20mph area. Though I do know someone who says they were given a speeding ticket for doing 24mph.

Enforcement isn’t the only factor, there’s social pressure to conform to a certain speed range and that in turn is shaped by the posted limit and by publicity. 

if the impact is reducing speeds on residential roads from 40 to 30, then the benefits are justified

Totally. And I’m struggling to think of any disbenefits.

[wycombewheeler]

Kapelmuur wrote:

20 mph limit is a good idea, but the current speed limits aren’t enforced so what’s the point?

if people are routinely breaking the speed limit by 10mph and you want people to drive at 30mph or below either have zealous enforcement of the existing limits, or reduce limit so the new typical driving speed is reduced to 30

[wycombewheeler]

Timsen wrote:

If you have a blanket 20mph limit it will be ignored by the public and Police as in the majority of instances such a limit will be inappropriate. Better to concentrate on areas where it is really needed i.e past schools and areas where children may be playing nearby or crossing etc. 

Dare I suggest that these 20 mph limits are sometimes enforced as a “cash cow ” on unsuspecting motorists (& potentially cyclists) whether there is any actual danger in exceedng the limit or not. 

I don’t think you can imply that as 20mph street are routinely ignored and never enforced.

The hard pressed motorist needs only to obey the driving rules to avoid being used as a cash cow.

[Rich_cb]

If you want 20mph limits
If you want 20mph limits where children may be “playing nearby or crossing nearby” then surely you’d support 20mph on residential streets?

My street has just gone to 20mph. Most cars are still doing well over that but I reckon about 1 in 5 are sticking to it.

Still an improvement.

[wycombewheeler]

Bmblbzzz wrote:

We’ve got 20mph limits on almost all streets and roads in Bristol. It’s treated by drivers and I expect by police the same way as 30mph limits: broken but not ignored. Just as the de facto speed limit in a 30mph area might be 40mph, so it will be around 30mph in a 20mph area. Though I do know someone who says they were given a speeding ticket for doing 24mph.

Enforcement isn’t the only factor, there’s social pressure to conform to a certain speed range and that in turn is shaped by the posted limit and by publicity. 

if the impact is reducing speeds on residential roads from 40 to 30, then the benefits are justified

[quiff]

My understanding is that

My understanding is that 20mph limits are not targeted solely at road safety – they also target air quality, increasing active travel and possibly even improving traffic flow. The speed limit is also posted on signs, so there shouldn’t be any ‘unsuspecting motorists’. If the speed limit isn’t posted, then that would be a potential defence to a speeding charge.      

[Timsen]

If you have a blanket 20mph

If you have a blanket 20mph limit it will be ignored by the public and Police as in the majority of instances such a limit will be inappropriate. Better to concentrate on areas where it is really needed i.e past schools and areas where children may be playing nearby or crossing etc. 

Dare I suggest that these 20 mph limits are sometimes enforced as a “cash cow ” on unsuspecting motorists (& potentially cyclists) whether there is any actual danger in exceedng the limit or not. 

[Bmblbzzz]

We’ve got 20mph limits on

We’ve got 20mph limits on almost all streets and roads in Bristol. It’s treated by drivers and I expect by police the same way as 30mph limits: broken but not ignored. Just as the de facto speed limit in a 30mph area might be 40mph, so it will be around 30mph in a 20mph area. Though I do know someone who says they were given a speeding ticket for doing 24mph.

Enforcement isn’t the only factor, there’s social pressure to conform to a certain speed range and that in turn is shaped by the posted limit and by publicity. 

[wycombewheeler]

jh2727 wrote:

20 mph limits for urban areas are all well and good, but why do country lanes with blind bends, and no pavement or streetlights not get the same treatment?

I understand that it’d be impossible to police a 20 limit on a country lane but leaving them at national speed limit or reducing them to (say) 50 mph misses the point a bit.  They should be as usable for non-motorised users as urban roads are. Also, the days of motorists choosing to ignore speed limits are surely numbered?

speed limits are set against certain criteria and the difficulty in driving at 60mph in single track or bendiny country roads is not one of them.

Drivers are expected to use their judgement to decide when it is not appropriate to drive at the speed limit.

Apparantly the authorities do not see a flaw in this position.

[quiff]

Of course, you need both a

Of course, you need both a limit and enforcement – which is what I said in the consultation. But I have to say, they have already introduced a lot of 20mph restrictions in Cardiff in recent years, and they are much better observed than I might have expected / than my experience of the same in London.  

[Kapelmuur]

20 mph limit is a good idea,

20 mph limit is a good idea, but the current speed limits aren’t enforced so what’s the point?

[mikewood]

Can we have it in England too

Can we have it in England too please? Should be the standard default limit on all urban roads that are residential and not major arterial routes that have appropriate infrastructure

[jh2727]

20 mph limits for urban areas

20 mph limits for urban areas are all well and good, but why do country lanes with blind bends, and no pavement or streetlights not get the same treatment?

I understand that it’d be impossible to police a 20 limit on a country lane but leaving them at national speed limit or reducing them to (say) 50 mph misses the point a bit.  They should be as usable for non-motorised users as urban roads are. Also, the days of motorists choosing to ignore speed limits are surely numbered?

[quiff]

Wow, lots of detail there.

Wow, lots of detail there. Thanks, I’ll have a look. 

[Author]

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