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AaaHhhhh Can somebody, anybody help me please....or maybe shed some light...???
I'm drowning in confusion, I have a list of bikes about as long as my legs & I don't know anymore.
I have a budget of £1,500 - £2k & I'm looking to upgrade my steed to something more worthy.

I Originally had a small list of Carbon bikes maybe a ribble R872, or a BMC roadracer, or a Specialized Roubaix, or a boardman road team, or a cinelli saetta, or a dolan (as I'm NW based) but then I heard about Ti & the Van Nich has been drawing me in.
Titanium sounds amazing but now I'm not sure if Ti is right...

I had ruled out aluminium as (generally) the ride is quite rigid & the roads in & around Greater Manchester aren't the best. my current Alu bike has me whincing in pain over the bumps but I've heard alu is on the comeback. I just don't know anymore.

i went to edinburgh cycles in manchester & the assistant then suggested more bikes to me, argh headache. these were the mekk potenza (sounds great for £1,100!), the focus cayo evo 4/6 & the cube agree gtc.

I suppose what I'm getting at is, would any of these (particularly Ti)stack up in a race if I was to start racing (which I'm considering) & is there a good allrounder to stop me buying 2 bikes  1

thanks in advance

38 comments

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Cycle_Jim [264 posts] 3 years ago
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Got a mekk poggio, its very nice!

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simonkenyon [21 posts] 3 years ago
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What makes you think you wouldn't be able to race on it?

Anyhow, this may or may not help your decision making - but in my experience, when it comes to carbon vs. titanium, nobody ever comes up to you and says "wow, that's a cool bike" when you're riding carbon ...

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Noelieboy [87 posts] 3 years ago
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cheers Jim

I'm going to test ride the Mekk Potenza tonight...

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Noelieboy [87 posts] 3 years ago
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simonkenyon wrote:

What makes you think you wouldn't be able to race on it?

Anyhow, this may or may not help your decision making - but in my experience, when it comes to carbon vs. titanium, nobody ever comes up to you and says "wow, that's a cool bike" when you're riding carbon ...

this is very true, Titanium does stand out from the norm. is the gratification worth the £400 price difference...???

I wasn't sure if the Van Nic was a full racing spec.
The van nic website states: "The Mistral has been designed with all-day saddle occupancy in mind. It’s ideal for riders who want great performance without a ‘professional’ price tag"
where as the Ventus states: "A performance racer with a silky-smooth ride, the Ventus delivers all the magical qualities of Titanium at a wallet-friendly price."

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SammyG [274 posts] 3 years ago
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That's because carbon riders are out riding and titanium are hanging about outside the cafe ;);)

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tomisitt [56 posts] 3 years ago
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Have you thought about Spin titanium bikes...pretty racy, especially the Spitfire Mk3 and the Lightning (they even have a their own race team) and reasonably priced. Few Ti bikes are as "raceable" as the equivalent carbon ones, but unless you're at a high level of racing, the chances are you won't notice a huge difference (except in comfort).

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700c [957 posts] 3 years ago
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Your options sound pretty racy so if you do go for ti make sure it's on the lighter side /with racier geometry.

Due to the virtues if the material, most manufacturers design ti bikes as distance machines rather than out and out racing machines.

Personally I love my Ti kinesis and with light wheels it fairly flies along, and I can recommend this if you're not just racing on it, but I do believe Spin or Lynsky make lighter, more aggressively sporty models in Ti.

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Noelieboy [87 posts] 3 years ago
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Cheers guys all very helpful.
I will check out the Spin bikes, hadnt heard of those.
I have seen the Lynskys but I wasn't overly impressed compared to the Van Nic's.

Where I'm at now is I think its a straight race with the Van Nic & a new contender - A Wilier Izoad XP 105 which I have just test rode tonight & loved it! Very responsive & a great ride.
I had test rides on the mekk potenza 5, Merckx emz, specialised roubaix & focus Cayo 6 tonight & just as I was leaving the store guy suggested the Wilier. I wish he hadn't as its thrown another spanner in the works now.

I would like to try out a dolan tho before making my final decision.

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SammyG [274 posts] 3 years ago
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Keep riding the bikes and testing em out. I tried a focus 3.0 and that was a very nice frame and ride.

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badkneestom [135 posts] 3 years ago
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I've heard great things about Sabbath Titanium.
I'm currently saving up for a Seven Titanium.

edit:
Check out the Road.cc tech page. I trust their reviews.

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FMOAB [267 posts] 3 years ago
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Easy one to answer, under the age of 40 a carbon fixation is appropriate, aged 40+ this morphs into a titanium fixation. It goes with the turf, as unavoidable as overly long nose and ear hair.

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WolfieSmith [1326 posts] 3 years ago
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I race a Condor Moda Ti. Very nice.

Terry Dolan makes a very fine Ti bike. It may be a coincidence but he started producing them after I showed him my Condor...

Go and see him in Ormskirk in person. He'll give great advice and a competitive price.

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Old Cranky [257 posts] 3 years ago
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For the latest carbon framed - Di2 state of the art bike for under £2k, I don't think you can go wrong with the Ridley Excalibur...

http://www.pearsoncycles.co.uk/store/content/106/Ridley-Excalibur/

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notfastenough [3709 posts] 3 years ago
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Old Cranky wrote:

For the latest carbon framed - Di2 state of the art bike for under £2k, I don't think you can go wrong with the Ridley Excalibur...

http://www.pearsoncycles.co.uk/store/content/106/Ridley-Excalibur/

That looks like some deal.

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abandoneur [18 posts] 3 years ago
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Focus Izalco Pro 3.0
Race ready out the box.
Next year get some fancy wheels for it.

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putmebackonmybike [19 posts] 3 years ago
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I ride my Van Nic thru Greater Manchester every working day: super comfortable and quick over less than perfect road surfaces.

Me and my club mates got the scales out once. It weighed as much as the lower end carbon bikes in the group. So don't fear the apparent extra bulk.

It sounds like you only want to dabble in racing? My suggestion is to get a Ti, which will service the occasional race, with a view to a future carbon out-and-out racing beast purchase next season as you begin your n+1 strategy.

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Noelieboy [87 posts] 3 years ago
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putmebackonmybike wrote:

I ride my Van Nic thru Greater Manchester every working day: super comfortable and quick over less than perfect road surfaces.

Me and my club mates got the scales out once. It weighed as much as the lower end carbon bikes in the group. So don't fear the apparent extra bulk.

It sounds like you only want to dabble in racing? My suggestion is to get a Ti, which will service the occasional race, with a view to a future carbon out-and-out racing beast purchase next season as you begin your n+1 strategy.

which Van Nic do you ride?
I've found a shop in bury that sells them, although they only have the Euro's in stock. I'm going to try it out at the wkend vs the Wilier XP.
hoping to join a club & start my racing career  1

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Noelieboy [87 posts] 3 years ago
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abandoneur wrote:

Focus Izalco Pro 3.0
Race ready out the box.
Next year get some fancy wheels for it.

cheers, I tried out the Focus Cayo & yes, it was a good ride better than the Mekk but not as comfy as the Roubaix but the Wilier XP blew these all away...

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Noelieboy [87 posts] 3 years ago
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MercuryOne wrote:

I race a Condor Moda Ti. Very nice.

Terry Dolan makes a very fine Ti bike. It may be a coincidence but he started producing them after I showed him my Condor...

Go and see him in Ormskirk in person. He'll give great advice and a competitive price.

Definitley am planning a trip there, The Dolan Ti is one I'm looking at. Bit concerned as its titled "Titanium ADX"
other problem is you can't test ride the bikes at Dolan  2

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Noelieboy [87 posts] 3 years ago
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badkneestom wrote:

I've heard great things about Sabbath Titanium.
I'm currently saving up for a Seven Titanium.

edit:
Check out the Road.cc tech page. I trust their reviews.

Hi, Thanks for the advice. I like the Seven Carbon & Ti mix but at £4k its way too much for me...

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putmebackonmybike [19 posts] 3 years ago
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It's the Euros. It's very good value.

You'll notice the slight 'sportive' geometry - but you can still go low if you're young and flexible enough and want to give it some welly. I stick tri-bars on it regularly for TTs - happy days.

Solid all-rounder then: but note no mudguard mounts if you're thinking it's a complete all-need solution.

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Noelieboy [87 posts] 3 years ago
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putmebackonmybike wrote:

It's the Euros. It's very good value.

You'll notice the slight 'sportive' geometry - but you can still go low if you're young and flexible enough and want to give it some welly. I stick tri-bars on it regularly for TTs - happy days.

Solid all-rounder then: but note no mudguard mounts if you're thinking it's a complete all-need solution.

Sounds like a plan. I have the SKS mudguards which attach using a rubber clip so no problem with it not having the mudguard mounts. doesn't rain that much in M'cr anyway  1

which club do you ride with???

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putmebackonmybike [19 posts] 3 years ago
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Ashwell, Herts. Long story.

Several good clubs in what I suspect is your striking distance though - Lancs Road, Bury CTC, Clarion, Horwich, Manchester Wheelers. British Cycling's online club finder is comprehensive.

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notfastenough [3709 posts] 3 years ago
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Chorlton Velo - best club in town!  4

PM me if you fancy coming out with us.

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hammond83 [24 posts] 3 years ago
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Sorry, but I don't understand how you can prefer the van Nic over the lynskey. I rode a van nic euros vs a lynskey sportive and the lynskey was far far better ride. I noticed that the bottom bracket flexed on the van nic but your money your choice.

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700c [957 posts] 3 years ago
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@Noelieboy, interested to know what your decision was in the end...?

If you still haven't decided, a couple of further thoughts, to try to persuade you down the Ti route!

Regarding weight, +1 to what putmebackonmybike said, I got the scales out for the first time the other day and the complete weight of my Ti bike was 7.75 kg (it's a large frame, I'm 6'2), so Ti not necessarily heavier than carbon..

I took it on a 10 mile TT last week and posted a 25.57, over rough roads, no tri bars, just standard set up, trying to keep on the drops for as long as possible.. Quicker than the various carbon TT rigs on the evening and I suspect I was a lot more comfortable! (obviously not a scientific comparison between frame materials)

I'd say it's as close to a fast all-rounder you can get, intended use of course is sportives, I don't feel beaten up after 4 hours and I'm sure I'm no slower than most riders on carbon.

So unless you're a seriously competitive racer, I do think you can get one bike to do it all if you go down the Ti route. worse case scenario is you end up with two wheelsets but using a single frame, perhaps light alu clinchers for sportive and swap them out for deeper carbon rims for racing. Still avoiding n+1, technically at least!

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step-hent [723 posts] 3 years ago
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I have the Van Nic Mistral - very similar to the Euros, though slightly cheaper. I've compared directly with a Specialized Tarmac SL3 (used to own one) and two Cervelos (an S£ and an R3SL). My summary:

- the Van Nic is gloriously comfortable. The R3SL is pretty good, the S3 a little harsh (all with the same wheels, saddle, bars, tape etc). For rougher roads, it's easier to go quick on the Van Nic, because you're less worried about getting beaten up and less cautious about breaking something...
- the Van Nic isn't quite as stiff as either of the Cervelos in the BB, but is still very good. Unless you're a massive sprinter, the Van Nic is easily stiff enough to race on without feeling that the bike is holding you back.
- the Van Nic handling is gloriously stable without feeling slow. It might be the reduction of vibration from the ti frame, or just the geo, but I can throw it down descents in a way I simply can't on the S3. I can go almost as quick on the R3SL, but it doesnt feel planted like the Van Nic.
- the Van Nic won't crack if I crash it, or if the rear derailleur gets caught and rips off the frame into the seat stay (this actually happened on the R3SL, which is now being repaired). If you've got one shot at getting a great bike and you want to race it, get the Van Nic - you can crash it and, most likely, it will be fine in a lot of situations where you'd be needing a frame repair or replacement on a carbon frame.

Sorry for the long post - but in summary, get the Van Nic. It's a great ride, and it will instil confidence in a way the fantastic plastic struggles to do in many situations. I love my Cervelos, but they are very specialised tools. If I had to pick one of my bikes and get rid of the rest, it would be the Van Nic.

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Ashleyhoaken [35 posts] 3 years ago
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Noelieboy,
If not decided
For comfort Titanium over carbon, titanium flexes well, so it can be a better shock absorber than carbon fiber. Titaniums wins

For durability, carbon is still not a good material for self-supported bicycle touring because of the different types of stresses on a loaded bike, according to deceased bicycle mechanic and bicycling website writer Sheldon Brown. Titanium is durable and maintains its shape well, but if damaged, it can be expensive and difficult to repair. A draw but for racing carbon.

Weight, Because of construction techniques, such a titanium bike might be lighter, but not because of changes in titanium's weight. A poorly constructed carbon fiber bike could be heavier than a well constructed titanium bike. A draw but carbon is mostly lighter.

References
• Smart Cycles: Frame Materials
• Sheldon Brown: Frame Materials for the Touring Cyclist
• REI: Understanding Bike Frame Materials
• The CARE Exchange: Material Assets
• Livestrong

On your chooses,

The Wilier Izoad XP (Looks, handling and comfort) but I do pass a lot of rider on them when raceing ,over the Roubaix (Quality frame, good kit not for every one )

Sorry to chuck a sapeer in the works but try these 5

1.Bianchi Sempre 2012( A Wonderfully poised frame with classy kit)

2.Felt AR5 2012 (The Felt rides very well, though its a stiff bike frame)

3.Trek Madone 3.5 (Wonderful ride, great value)

4.Focus Izalco Pro 3.0 (A great all-rounder)

5.Eddy merkx – emx 1 (Frantically fast and efficient race bike and smoth ride)

these are all carbon

Ti bikes In your price range you are going to struggle to find ti is there is one recommend

Genesis Equilibrium Ti (A good bike but not live up to its steel framed siblings)

At the end of the day the it is your chooses not other peoples

i currently ride a emx-1 and when descending it is stable and fast but long wateing time for parts.

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Noelieboy [87 posts] 3 years ago
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700c wrote:

@Noelieboy, interested to know what your decision was in the end...?

Hi @700c,
Thanks for the help. I went for the Izoard XP in the end.
I was lucky enough to test both the Mistral & the Izoard side by side at my LBS (Leisure Lakes Bikes, Bury. Great service & knowledge)& I found the Izoard to just have the edge.
I wasn't sure if I was compromising by going for the Mistral & I had to think about storage aswell as I don't have a garage or shed at the moment, only an accomodating wife  1
I went with my gut instinct at the time but now after your comments, I kinda wish I'd gone for the Mistral...
No, just kidding  1
The Izoard is a great bike, very responsive & is suiting me down to the ground at the mo.
I'll see where the Izoard brings me & then maybe upgrade to the Ti at a later date.

Thanks very much for your help tho, good to know there are people out there willing to help.  4

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Noelieboy [87 posts] 3 years ago
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Ashleyhoaken wrote:

Noelieboy,
If not decided
For comfort Titanium over carbon, titanium flexes well, so it can be a better shock absorber than carbon fiber. Titaniums wins

For durability, carbon is still not a good material for self-supported bicycle touring because of the different types of stresses on a loaded bike, according to deceased bicycle mechanic and bicycling website writer Sheldon Brown. Titanium is durable and maintains its shape well, but if damaged, it can be expensive and difficult to repair. A draw but for racing carbon.

Weight, Because of construction techniques, such a titanium bike might be lighter, but not because of changes in titanium's weight. A poorly constructed carbon fiber bike could be heavier than a well constructed titanium bike. A draw but carbon is mostly lighter.

References
• Smart Cycles: Frame Materials
• Sheldon Brown: Frame Materials for the Touring Cyclist
• REI: Understanding Bike Frame Materials
• The CARE Exchange: Material Assets
• Livestrong

On your chooses,

The Wilier Izoad XP (Looks, handling and comfort) but I do pass a lot of rider on them when raceing ,over the Roubaix (Quality frame, good kit not for every one )

Sorry to chuck a sapeer in the works but try these 5

1.Bianchi Sempre 2012( A Wonderfully poised frame with classy kit)

2.Felt AR5 2012 (The Felt rides very well, though its a stiff bike frame)

3.Trek Madone 3.5 (Wonderful ride, great value)

4.Focus Izalco Pro 3.0 (A great all-rounder)

5.Eddy merkx – emx 1 (Frantically fast and efficient race bike and smoth ride)

these are all carbon

Ti bikes In your price range you are going to struggle to find ti is there is one recommend

Genesis Equilibrium Ti (A good bike but not live up to its steel framed siblings)

At the end of the day the it is your chooses not other peoples

i currently ride a emx-1 and when descending it is stable and fast but long wateing time for parts.

Hi @Ashleyhoaken,
Thanks for the help.
I have read Sheldon Brown's blog before, some very useful stuff on there.
With regards to passing other Izoard bikes, fair enough a bike can only go as fast as the person riding it, hopefully my thighs of doom help on this matter  1
From your list I had considered the Bianchi but it was the wrong side of £2k when i saw it, its now £1700 at Evans, Damn!!!
The EMX-1 i test rode at Edinburgh cycles, yes its avery good bike but the sales assistant suggested the Izoard to me & I felt that was better.
Maybe if your in the NW we could have a Izoard & EMX race  1

Thanks again for your help...

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