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34 comments
Perhaps BTB could share with us the secret to his tyre invulnerability. I've been cycling for just as long, and probably just as many miles. I simply can't count the number of punctures I've had, but at probably 6-8 average a year, it's going to be in the hundrds. Those are from bits of glass, thorns, bits of metal, nails, screws, and pinch flats. That's on all sorts from MTB to 'gravel bike' to tubs, to the dunlop tyres that were on my raleigh 20. Either BTB has been riding track boards for his entire time, or he rides solid tyres. I have probably spent $20 - $30 on tubes a year for 35+ years, which amounts to the cost of a set of tubeless wheels. Again, share the secret. We're all brothers here...
12 months and 6000km o my tubeless tyres, used mainly in winter or when wet, riding in the chilterns (full of flints) not a single puncture yet.
stans rims, schwalbe tyres, stans sealant and valves
real pain to install, but I had such trouble taking the back wheel off with close fitting mudguards and disc brakes, and then such trouble getting a conti GP2000 tyre off the rime, that I decided to give tubeless tyres, was a real pain to install the first time, but not touched since. I would typically experience about 2 punctures a month on regular tyres riding similarly. I still carry a tube, but never having to stop in the cold and wet and change a filthy tyre is the benefit, not carrying 50 grams less. If I was that desperate to save weight I'd just carry a smaller water bottle.
Absolutely not, that's very poor advice. A thorn hole should just stay sealed until the tyre wears out and gets replaced naturally. In your case, I'm presuming tubed, just carry on. Only reason to prematurely replace any tyre is if it gets a large tear in it that can't be repaired.
@peted76 when you get a thorn in your tyre and it seals do you have to still replace the tyre when you get home? I recently got a thorn lodged in my clincher and while it didn't puncture the tube I was advised by my riding buddies to replace the carcass.
I've pulled thorns out of my tyres.. no issues there for me.
I've had one occasion where a had a 'tear' in the trye on the main tread, it sealed okay and got me home, but was maybe three or four mm long, in that case I took patched the tyre directly from the inside, you need to use tougher than the usual innertube patches with tubeless, but it's the same principal. It did leave a deformation (lump) in my tyre though which while I didn't really notice when riding did reduce the already tight clearances between the wheel and frame on my TCR.
Ha ha I knew this thread would ignite the road tubeless debates! FWIW I bloody love tubeless but have always had an inner tube rolled up inside my seat tube just in case...
Yep works fine, Been running G-ones for ages, then managed to put a 6inch nail through the rear and it flatted instantly. Pulled the nail out, popped a tube in, haven't bothered repairing it since and still going fine.
Note to all: Let's kill the zombie fact that sealants dry out - a number of the newer ones don't. I've had Slime Pro still liquid in tyres a year after installing. I'm more than happy to spend £10 a year topping it up if needed. As a peace-of-mind investment for thousands of miles of flat-free, low rolling-resistance, comfortable cycling, it's a no-brainer.
Also: It's a good idea to 'pre-unpeen' your valve cores and only install them finger-tight (or carry a tiny core removal tool). So if - IF - sealant clogs the valve core, you can remove the core roadside, remove the brass inner, and clear it out. Otherwise you won't be able to add air if needed. 'pre-unpeening' means holding the core with pliers and undoing the knurled knob with another pair of pliers, so it unscrews fully. Someone needs to make a valve core where this is possible out of the box.
Finally: Behindthebikesheds hates tubeless and won't be told it works for anyone because (s)he is indeed a cycling ninja with the ability to see through the dark to spot every tiny road imperfection, also rides tyres made of impervious Unobtanium rubber. Also is the luckiest British cyclist alive, and we are all doing it wrong in comparison
Sealants DO dry out, most of them. There's been a few come onto the market recently which proport not to, but killing a zombie won't help anyone if you discover your sealant has dried out on the side of the road.
I can only think your experience is refering to mtb tyres as you mentioned slime, which is too thick for easily adding via the valve core of a presta valve.
MTB tubeless cannot be used in the same breath as road tubless, the sealants are different, this is my 'exact' bugbear with tubeless, when I set out on my tubeless journey, I defaulted to 'stans', however it just didn't work at higher pressures, this is undisputable (apparently they have a new formula, but I've not tried it. I've tried slime but it was too gloopy, I've tried continental revo, but that didn't seal at high pressure either, the schwalbe stuff is just rebadged stans I believe, Bontrager sealant did/does work very well, however you have to shake the bottle for a ridiculous amount of time.. I'm now on Orange Seal which hasn't given me any headaches and the sediment doesn't seem to congeal as densely at the bottom of the bottle.
To add a caveat, I used stans for some time, it would seal a hole, however I've had minutes at the side of a road trying with a wheel off the ground watching it spurt and splutter before it pugs the hole only to have it come open again a few hundred meters down the road. I would suggest that if you were using stans or a similar you'd need to add 'more' sealant to the tyre to feel justified in using it, but you'll no doubt end up with it all over your frame. The 'convienience' factor is when using a better sealant you don't even know you've punctured until you get home, which is where I am today.
I went out yesterday with three visible sealed holes in my schwable pro-ones and came home with a fourth, it wasn't until I got home and checkled that I noticed.
Nope. Road tubeless only.
All sealants added either via Milkit valves, or poured direct into the tyre. No sealant can be added through a presta valve, as the gaps inside are way less than 3mm, which is the benchmark for any decent sealant to work up to.
I've run Stans in a road tyre without issue. So have thousands of other folks. Your combination of tyre, pressure and cut size might well have not worked.
To answer the original question: yes you should be able to. But it may depend on your rim/tyre combination. I have Stans Alpha rims and found that the bead can sit a bit funny, though deflating and pumping back up again fixed it. I have done it twice... in 6 years. Once 'cause I wanted to see how long it would take to get a puncture without sealant (I know, I know...don't ask) and once due to a sidewall slash repair that failed while sitting in the heat of the sun inside a friend's car. Boot and inner tube got me home, 60 miles. That sidewall slash happpened on a ride (unknown to me until I got home) but the sealant did enough to get me back.
I would agree with advice not to use pliers on the valves. Never had to with the Stans valves. It's also nice to carry an inner tube in case mates need it, who like to stay trad.
BTW, that original first road tubeless tyre I bought is still going, though it has been on the front the whole time. Maybe on about 7-8000miles now. The aptly named Intensive.
Tubeless for me now for just over a year. Still at the stage of carrying a tube, but havent used it. I carry a minipump, CO2 cannister, anchovies and a tyre boot. Still not quite ready to drop the pump and the tube as a safety net. Probably should just bite the bullet and get on with it; time to move on!
Agree with the comments above - I'm a convert to tubeless now. Still carry a micro pump and inner tube for emergencies (but have never had to use one).
I think you're supposed to top up or check sealant every 6 months or so. I can recommend the Milkit system: http://road.cc/content/review/176166-milkit-tubeless-valve-and-refill-kit
However, that just adds to the price of tubeless - it's definitely more expensive, but I'm a convert now.
With tubeless there's arguably more maintenance at home then there is with clincher. But I'll take that any time over trying to deal with a flat while freezing at the roadside.
Bearing in mind that the job of sealant is to seal holes by congealing rapidly, I have my doubts about sealant that's good for the life of the tyre. It may stay liquid but will it seal when required? Topping up sealant is no big deal anyway.
Regarding the valve locknut, my the tubeless valves on my MTB and my CX rims came with a shim that matched the curved profile of the rim, then a little oring, then the locknut.
I’ve experienced at least 3 snakebites on roadbikes, where I didn’t have BTB’s ninja skills to fully bunnyhop road craters. Also a few thorns and nails. In each case I would have expected tubeless not to suffer such a puncture (since I hit much worse on the MTB at v low pressure and escape).
Cost? The Ultegra wheels I last bought happened to be tubeless ready, and tyres are now coming back into the normal £ range, so next time I get new tyres I will probably modernise.
Yes you can. As others stated part of going tubless is putting up with the sticky gooey goop sealer. With that aside, I use an old car inner tube trimmed 2" x 3" to boot a tire slash. I like this because I can roll it up tight like a cigarrette making it easy to stuff into my saddle bag. It's also thick enough to withstand pressure pushing outward against a large cut without defroming the tire.
I should probably add that although I didn't have to use it, my anxiety made me carry a spare tube with me for at least 18months after converting to tubeless.
I've been using tubeless Schwable Pro Ones since August 2015. For me as an early adopter of road tubeless, it was a case of trial and error, I've been through three or four different sealants (which is still the biggest case against road tubeless and for pissing people off - do use Orange Seal or Bontrager sealant and shake VERY well before use), and lots of rim tapes.
However in two years and seven months, I've not needed to put a tube in or remove the tyre from the rim. Since getting the sealant 'right' I've never not managed to get home.
I will at some point buy one of those emergency 'sticky worm' things to out in my saddle bag, but at the moment all I carry is a 'small' bottle (think 20 or 30ml size) of sealant and a co2 cannister.
I believe tubeless tyres 'feel' more supple and nicer on the roads, and I'm not the only one who I know who thinks this.
So far I've been against switching to tubeless, the advantages don't come close to outweighing the potential troubles. And many of my worries concern the gloop, with its habit of drying out every few months, clogging valves and spraying itself all over the place.
But, just announced by Finish Line is a new sealant reckoned to be good for the life of the tyre. If it's true this will remove a major stumbling block from my progress towards cycling enlightenment. I await reviews with interest.
Short answer is yes. You'll still carry inner tubes, and a tyre boot, but only flat I've had in 600 winter miles has been due to not putting enough sealant in a rear tyre. Rode another 20miles on 50psi, then put tube in and got home. No drama and a lot quicker to deal with.
When trucks went tubeless some used flat mushroom like repair pads. The circular bit was flat and the trunk used to push into the puncture hole after drilling out the hole a bit. They work perfect as pressure holds the repair patch and the shaft prevents lateral movement. The shaft then wears to tread level not long after rolling.
Truck tyres are a pain in the muscle system to get off the bead; they're heavy.
In emergencies, they're the type of tube I'd rather use; a solid tube attached to a flat patch and a tad of glue.
Wouldn't help in case of the half hour walk above yet would an inner tube cope either. Rub rub along an edge.
Best of luck
Yes, done it a couple of times when the tyre wouldn't seal after being gashed rather than just holed. It is messy, suggestion of carrying at least one pair of nitrile rubber gloves is a good one.
Cut up an old toothpaste roll, you can then use it as a multi purpose tyre boot
simple answer: yes
more complicated answer: remove valve, that may need a set of pliers to remove, and fit inner tube as normal. Only problem i have ever had fitting a tube, to a tubeless setup, was not being able to remove the valve as i had tightened it into place with set of pliers and had trouble removing it. even though i run tubeless, i always carry a spare tube/pump*, any issues just fit the tube and carry on.
never had to fit a tube for "normal" punctures, had to twice for a flint tear on the roadbike and a sidewall split on the mtb.
*always carry this as i was once rescued by some random bloke and he said he carried spares for others. it stuck with me.
You don't need to tighten the valve locknut with pliers, in fact, don't. Remember that once inflated there is air pressure locking the valve into place. Just tighten the valve locknut enough to prevent air leaks while you're inflating the tyre.
Reason being that as a backstop roadside repair you may need to remove that valve to put in a tube. It would be very frustrating to find that your (tired, wet) fingers can't unscrew the locknut.
As an aside I feel most tubeless valves are still under-designed from this point of view. The suppliers need to provide a locknut that is bigger, with more grip, and doesn't present a scratchy metal face to the rim.
Yes, a tubeless will behave like an ordinary tyre if you want. I always carry a spare inner tube for my tubeless tyres just in case.
The "patches" that DaveyRaveyGravey is referring to (I think) are often called "anchovies". Here's a review of some:
http://road.cc/content/review/183575-genuine-innovations-tubeless-tire-repair-kit
The only puncture that I've had with tubeless ended up with a 1 inch cut in the tyre that I couldn't fix (even with anchovies). Luckily, I was only a half hour walk from home, so I didn't bother fitting an inner tube and ended up binning the tyre when I got home (it was only a week old).
I think you can; you may get covered in gloop doing it, and you may need a boot (or fiver) on the inside of the tyre if the hole is big.
There are also "patches" that you can push into the hole in the tyre that may also help, can't remember the proper name.
I'm not going tubeless, friends who have still have problems, and still need to carry tubes/tyres/patches/levers etc, so I don't see the point.
Before my first ride with the new set up I proudly took all that stuff out my saddlebag. Then panicked and put it all back in just in case!'
The point of going tubeless is NOT to remove the need to carry an inner tube or pump, although plenty of people do realise they can now forego carrying these things with only an extremely remote chance of being caught out.
The points are:
1. You will never again have to stop for a flat due to a snakebite or penetrating puncture.
2. You will never again have to pay for or repair a replacement inner tube for 1.
3. You can run lower tyre pressures all the time, meaning every single metre you ride is grippier, more comfortable/less exhausting and more energy-efficient/faster for the same energy input.
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