[JulesC]

Well in my pursuit for my next bike I’ve gained full support from “the Keeper of the purse strings” in fact we together went to see the first consideration.  I’m looking in the £1500 range in all probability carbon, 105 and caliper brakes.

I threw my leg over an Italian lovely Carbon a year or two old so it was Ultegra 11sp and Gran Fondo/Spotive geometry but Italian so a bit racy too.

Good, responsive acceleration, handled well etc and here it comes, but it was dull! I expected to walk back in the shop, rip out my kidney/credit card and walk out 10 minutes later because I couldn’t bear to part with it. Sadly it wasn’t to be the case.  I’ve been a MTB’er and own a Ti frame and that did it; it was a lot of money and second hand, but WOW! The carbon lovely didn’t do it, just didn’t have that spark, that WOW let alone even a little wow.

Steel? The Light Blue Wolfson??? Ti (out of budget I suspect? Back to drawing board a little crestfallen. The only advantage is I’ve now got to throw my leg over many more to really understand if it was a one off (the manufacturer has changed their frame since this model) or is carbon just not for me.

And how do you really, REALLY tell in a 20 minute pootle around a town/industrial estate etc?

Thanks for reading/listening to my ramble/brain dump 🙂

 

Topic

[matthewn5]

Good carbon isn’t dull. You

Good carbon isn’t dull. You won’t get it in a £1500 bike though, not even in a £1500 frame.

Personally I’m happy to ride any bike if it is has lively steering and feels stiff through the bottom bracket. That makes for antidull.

[JulesC]

Madcarew,

Madcarew,

The much loved Ti MTB I have is exactly the same as yours DB Ti Axis (lovely lovely lovely), just stunning. Thats the difference I was expecting.

Pablo,

 

Kind of stupid?  I was asking a question, check the OP.

 

Carbon fibre can be springy, leaf springs from CF are old-hat, they’re now making CF coil springs

So carbon CAN be designed to feel lively or even springy!

I took the bike for a 20 minute spin around a town centre the out into the country.  It was pefectly functionally excellent, handled and positioned me over/in the frame well – it was not bad in any way.  Its just that I expected to feel a sea-change from an 11 yr old aluminium bike to a 18 month old carbon fibre.  It was firm and rigid, just lacking life, better than existing model, but £1500 more – not to my mind.

Interestingly the Wilier GTR is in the consideration as I’m looking at that as I want sportier too.

Batchy – nice to have such a great LBS 🙂

[pablo]

Comparing materials is all
Comparing materials is all well and good but geometry plays an even more importAnt part. Compareing different styles of bikes and then saying it’s the material that makes the difference is kind of stupid.
I own a 2015 cannondale supersix evo hi mod and recently had the pleasure of doing 150 miles on a caad12. Both were brilliant but the supersix is certainly more reactive especially when out of the saddle or going up hill. On the downhill the caad was more stable and predictable and I had more confidence it was going to hold it’s line.
So let’s be clear both of these bikes have identical geo and both have pro’s and con’s I would buy a caad and wouldn’t feel I was missing much but that extra 5% mAkes the evo special and stupid expensive

[JulesC]

Alansmurphy
Alansmurphy

Both poetic and intriguing.

More confusion though 🙂

JC

[rnick]

Just buy which ever bike

Just buy which ever bike makes you smile…I pondered over a carbon bike a couple of years ago & rode a Cannondale Synapse, it was “very nice”.  I bought a Van Nicholas titanium, cos I liked it more.  Occasionally, I’ll pinch my son’s CAAD10 – it’s exceptional & very nice to ride if you’re in the mood for hammering along.  As is normal, an Aluminium frame will leave you more $$ for a nice set of wheels…

[Batchy]

JulesC wrote:

JulesC wrote:

Batchy wrote:

All my previous bikes have either been steel or aluminium. I thought that the aluminium with carbon forks that I had ridden over 80,000 miles on was the best for both comfort and liveliness. However 2 years ago I went for a full carbon “sportive”  jobby and it totally blew all previous notions out of the water. Carbon – once you have ridden it two or three times -is far superior both for handling and comfort. I bought a second  cheaper carbon frame (£500 Inc. post/clamp, b/b, headset and full carbon forks) this summer, with the intention of using it as a winter hack , and it is has turned out to be the best bike I’ve ever ridden.

So name and praise, you little tease, what was this vision of carbon loveliness? Perhaps a second ride on yesterday’s model would be worth as it, on paper, ticks all the boxes, geometry, size, design philosophy, reviews, equipment etc it’s just I expected more so it’s my issues not the bike. The bike apparently (a number of reviews) compared very favourably to similar models when it was new and over £2k.

Of course everyone has an opinion and so what floats my boat may not float yours. However I can say with some certainty that there is just one Brevatto 53cm frame left (Gloss White with black decals) in stock at Brucie’s Bikes in Kendal. I paid £500 for it as I got a discount from £599( it is my LBS and I have spent loads of down there over the years). The frameset was probably hand built by craftsmen in a small workshop somewhere in Taiwano, but hey, it still goes faster than my legs can spin and boy it is really is comfy.

Brevatto is Brucie’s own brand so they are as rare as hen’s teeth outside of Kendal. The frame is fairly straightforward in design with a big fat down tube and 86mm bb shell. Straight bladed full carbon forks and carbon seat post and race geometry with internal cables, I must take a photo. 

I run it with 105 5700 as it was supposed to be my winter bike however this groupset is well up there in function and reliability. My Mavic Kysium Elites are brilliant on any frame.

I have lived to long now to bother about fancy bling. It’s actually all about legs not logos !

[thebungle]

My tuppence worth.

My tuppence worth.

My good bike is a Wilier Gran Turismo with Campag and 38mm carbon wheels, despite being sportive orientated the geometry is firmly in the racier camp.

 

It’s enjoyable to ride, handles wonderfully and certainly feels characterful, I love it.

 

I’ve also just picked up a Genesis Equilibrium to use as a winter bike, I’ve set it up the same as the Wilier but it has a steel frame and 27mm tyres. As my first steel road bike I wasnt sure what to expect but after only 500 miles, I love it. It rides differently from the Wilier and whilst subjectively it isn’t as quick, it feels so nice to ride.

 

I’ve also got a decent amount of time on BMC frames, they are definitely what I’d descibe as dull, perfectly adequate but nothing that made me smile.

 

So much choice out there, good luck in your hunt. 

[Simon E]

JulesC wrote:

drosco wrote:

It’s all in the mind. 

drosco,

Not sure about that, I’ve ridden a number of aluminium bikes and a range of MTBs.  Yesterday’s carbon felt powerful & effective, just lacking in life.

JC

Not doubting your judgement but those words “felt lacking in life” don’t mean much to anyone else. It’s incredibly subjective.

What does “dull” mean? Or “lively” etc etc. How can a metal or carbon tubes be “lively”? How can you measure that? Can you get a group of experienced riders/testers together and get them all to agree on these qualities?

One point I think is valid is that the wheels and tyres can make as big a difference as anything. And how does geometry affect the sensations?

We shouldn’t dismiss the power of marketing, personal preferences and prejudices, the ability to deceive/convince oneself.

To the OP: I think you have to go with what YOU prefer. No-one else can know what that is.

[madcarew]

JC, to be fair, I think

JC, to be fair, I think riding one carbon bike a bit around the environs of a shop and then saying ‘carbon is dull’ <heaps tinder at bottom of stake> is a bit hasty.

The worst race bike I’ve ever ridden was a columbus SL handbuilt italian frame supplied by my sponsor at the time. It was absolutely top of the heap, dura-ace, the works, and rode like a tank in sand. However, one of the most sublime frames I’ve ridden was a british custom built columbus SL frame borrowed from a team mate. As discussed in a thread last week “is all 6061-t6 aluminium equal?” it really comes down to the build. Having ridden a very large tube full alloy Cannondale (1988), it shouted “fun” at you as soon as you got on it. You shouted “assassin” at it when you got off after 80 miles. The response and handling was so quick, and it was so stiff, it would literally eject you from the seat when changing line at full noise in a crit corner. My current cannondale evo hi-mod is very boring… around a parking lot. But when at speed it is the most exciting thing I’ve ever ridden. The feel, the pointability, the sublime handling, the comfort are at a level I’ve never experienced from any other material (though a CAAD 12 comes pretty close).

Most carbon frames will feel pretty boring on a trip around an industrial estate, but 100 miles later you’ll still be able to walk and smile. Personally I think for performance (power transfer, stiffness, responsiveness at a given weight) carbon is unbeaten. For comfort, handling and pizzazz, it comes down to the build, and you can get that from a good builder in any material. 

BTW, The bike that I simply  got the greatest thrill from owning and riding, ever, was a Diamondback Axis titanium MTB, again provided by a sponsor. I kept it at the end of the season and was devastated when it was stolen in a break-in a few years later. 

[madcarew]

drosco wrote:

drosco wrote:

Plasterer’s Radio wrote:

drosco wrote:

How can a bike be dull? How can you measure dullness? A dullometer?

Your comments on this thread score highly on the dullometer, Mr. Obtuse.

Seriously, heavy, yep, aero, yep, stiff, yep, but dull!? I just don’t believe any bike can be described as any more or less dull than another. Dull isn’t really a measurable thing. I won’t comment again.

Presumably you’d have an issue with another being described as ‘lively’ then, too?

[drosco]

Plasterer's Radio wrote:

Plasterer's Radio wrote:

drosco wrote:

How can a bike be dull? How can you measure dullness? A dullometer?

Your comments on this thread score highly on the dullometer, Mr. Obtuse.

Seriously, heavy, yep, aero, yep, stiff, yep, but dull!? I just don’t believe any bike can be described as any more or less dull than another. Dull isn’t really a measurable thing.

I won’t comment again.

[harman_mogul]

My front-line bike is a

My front-line bike is a Cannondale SuperSix Evo HM. For putting in the road miles, it is hard to think of any bike that would feel better. On the other hand, for pure pleasure I usually take out the Cinelli Supercorsa, a steel bike that’s been in continuous production for over 40 years (and will be until the clap of doom, it says on the website). Horses for courses mate!

[alansmurphy]

It’s only a flesh wound, come
It’s only a flesh wound, come back here and ride!

[mike the bike]

No, it’s never dull.

No, it’s never dull.

[alansmurphy]

As you suggest, a tootle
As you suggest, a tootle around an industrial estate probably won’t do it. After getting the road bug in the last 4 or so years (after many years of commuting) I purchased steadily improved bikes in small incraments. Dawes Milk Race, Peugeot Alloy and then a Specialized Allez with Carbon forks and Sora 9 spd. Cycle to work scheme saw me buy a ‘gravel’ bike with Claris, discs and a bit heavier.

The summer bike on the whole was a tad quicker than the gravel but i could ignore pot holes and rag it a little; Strava suggests not too much difference. Having said that I remained excited when the sunshine made a brief appearance and I could hit the summer bike. I had no real intention of changing but redundancy led to a pot of cash that i didn’t want to waste on a kitchen or paying off the mortgage, on the lookout for carbon i went…

A cannondale synapse full carbon with 105 was secured. Even the 8 miles to meet my club it was quicker, i even thought of sending it back as it seemed to be sodding off ahead of me and i was having to move my legs quicker to keep up. On a steep climb and out of the saddle it didn’t feel like i was dragging the rear up the hill, it floated up and my presses on the pedals merely facilitated.

This weekend i had a trip on the gravel bike and all of a sudden it felt sluggish. The gap i anticipated between my previous 2 bikes wasn’t really there, but now with the carbon it feels huge. Next day on the carbon I was settled on a 1 or 2% downhill tootling at 18mph and put some power down, jumped to 25mph in a couple of seconds. The inane grin on my face was probably the same as when pulling my first wheelie on my raleigh chopper!

Now i understand that the drive train, brakes et al have received an upgrade too, the whole package makes a difference. I just feel the carbon feels like I’m hovering on tge road surface rather than putting power into it. I also think that one or two sprints is merely the beginning, the additional ease will add up over a long ride and be even more beneficial…

[Author]

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