fred whitton advice

Thanks DaveyRaveyGravey...

As it stands I think I'm likely to extend the Easter week in Girona into two weeks and sack off the Whitton, I'd only be doing it to say I had, and that's no reason to enter!

I got in last year on the reserve list, loved it, although Hardknott and Wrynose after 95 miles were too much for me and I had to walk.  The hot and sunny weather probably contributed to having to walk.

I am 80 kg, 6 foot, and 51 years old.  I had a 52/36 on my bike, and went long cage and 11-32 at the back.  It took me 8 and a quarter hours, my second highest ever suffer score after Everesting.

I did A LOT of Sussex and Surrey hills beforehand, but only one century ride.  If I was doing it again, I would do more longer rides with more climbing; I knew after 40 miles (so after Kirkstone but before Honister) that it would be a long hard struggle of a day for me.

I started early, and rode with friends who were aiming at 16 mph average, so I backed off and let them go.  That wasn't a realistic pace for an all day ride for me, and that may explain why I knew by 40 miles I was in for it.

We were lucky with the weather, it was gloriously hot from about 10 am, exactly as the forecast said.  But at 6 am at the start I think it was only 6 degrees, so shorts, short sleeve top and short sleeve gloves were not helping against the cold.  

If you plan to drive in to the start on the day, get there early, like before half 5.  We left in the first few waves, and the queue of cars in the opposite direction must have been 5 miles or so, past where the ride turns away from the lake.  

Walking your bike up Hardknott is very tough, as others have said.   I can't imagine how you would ride it in the wet.  If you sit on the nose of the saddle, you can just about spread your weight enough to keep the front down and the back still gripping.  Definitely practice this if you plan on riding up HK.  

The descents are tricky, Honister has a bridge which you turn right into and then left to get off, someone had a bad accident there.  Hardknott and Wrynose are just as bad, very steep, with rippled tarmac so push your butt off the back of the seat, get low, and keep your speed down.

65kg and I'm XC/Cross race fit, but don't fancy spending any more money than required it's already looking like costing the best part of week in Mallorca...it's closer to drive to France from Devon than Keswick!

I regularly spin up Haytor, Widdecome, Dartmeet on my current gearing but know the Lakes Well and the severity of some of the hills with a century in your legs...I'm more inclinded to put some slicks & 42t ring on one my XC Race Bikes than mess with my Willier, though that may I fear cause derision in the riders around me. 

I've just completed a week in Tenerife riding every day. Most riders were 70-80kg and coped with a 50/34 and 32t back sprocket. I the other hand weigh nearly a 100kg and used a XT MTB setup with a low ratio of 28 front and 40 rear. This allowed me to keep spinning happily. One rider who was big a me, had a standard setup and struggled as the climbs went on and was always last by at least an hour each day trying to keep up. Gear correctly for the event you're entering.

Pants...

Looks like I've got a place on the 2017 ride. Last time I rode Hardknott was on my Dads Eddy Mercxx with a low gear of 42-23 or something ridiculously old school. Track Stands and Zig Zags!

My Willier has Chorus Mid Compact and 25 on the back...Anyone done it on this ratio, will I die?

Does anyone know when you are notified if you have a place on the reserve list?

I did the route a couple of years ago. Fitted a triple (30-40-50) and 28 tooth on the cassette. This was small enough to get a big bloke like me up ( I was 110 kg at that time). I also used mtb shoes and pedals; I didn't walk but my riding partner did, in his keo's, and we ended up the next day having to drive over the Wrynose etc to Ambleside to buy new cleats as he wore his out. One other problem is if you have to stop for any reason (e.g. oncoming traffic), then starting again can be an issue, learning to navigate between wheelspins and wheelies takes some concentration (keep your weight low). Definitely need good brakes, the descent was bad enough; I was able to slow down but I probably wouldn't have been able to stop. Alternate braking and use cadence braking as it is supposed to allow your rims to cool down a bit. If you can, go up a size on your tyres and run them at a slightly lower pressure, if only for the extra confidence. For accurate and scientific advice on tyre pressures, try http://www.bikequarterly.com/images/TireDrop.pdf. Good luck.

"I have done a simulated ride over the hardknott pass and Wynrose. Two very stiff climbs. I had 34×40 setup so could spin up. But to do those types of hills again and again over 100 miles . All the best, lucky lottery winner - See more at: http://road.cc/content/forum/175626-fred-whitton-advice#comment-form"

You can't 'simulate' Hardknott....especially the last hairpin with the broken road.

Not sure about you 'spinning up' either......

Not to mention weather conditions, which are unlikely to be ideal.

I'm also doing the Fred this year. I'll try anyway. I've done all the passes individually but doing them all on the same day? I'm dreading it!

For those that missed out: the roads are still there on the other 364/5 days of the year. There are large parts of Cumbria that could probably do with your custom at the moment and it's fabulous off season when it's much less busy.

HI Everyone. I took part last year after starting to road bike in September 2014. You should be alright with some good hill training and some low gears (I used 34x30). Just try and get in a group if possible and try not to spend too much time on the front.

Also, Hardknotts is very near the end so make sure you pace yourself. In the rain people were sliding and taking out others so take your time and try to find your own line and keep youre whits about you (no puns intended). Once you get over Wrynose it is a nice ride to the finish so just focus on that.

From what seen and heard, it's how your body copes towards the end of the ride that's the issue. Which means long, hilly rides are what is needed.

But also training your brain (a hot topic the moment) can apparently make a big difference, possibly between whether you get round or climb off.

I swapped my regular rings for two MTB ones and ground (grinded?) my way up in 32x25. It was tough but not as tough as I'd dreaded. I wouldn't have managed in 39x25 though! 

As mentioned earlier, the descent is less fun

On a different note, make sure to reserve your bike on the trains if possible. There's limited space and it's likely there will be more demand than supply. If you can't get on the local train from Oxenholme to Windermere and have to ride it, there's a pretty, quiet route to the North of the (pretty horrible) main road.

According to Strava it's about a 15-20min climb with a reprive half way..

Train for sustained climbs  on a turbo or rollers,  we call the following type of training 'efforts' although I'm sure there's a better term for it. Basically it's no recovery time between sprints. Warm up, then ride at 80% (80% being for me my 'I can hold this for an hour' heart rate) for 10 mins, then sprint 20secs (maybe 90-95% power), then straight back into 80% for a short while (60 seconds) then sprint, then 80%...rinse repeat. Do this until you fall off/faint/throwup - make sure you do proper warm downs also.

Incrementally build up your sprint times and you'll be laughing come the Fred with an improved lactic acid threshold.

(I'm not a trainer, but this is what our club coach told me a while ago and it seems logical.)

... and core work for out of the saddle efforts!

On the subject of hardknott, I failed on a 34/29 when I tried it on a coast-to-coast route, but I wasn't particularly expecting to manage it.

You get a horrible descent following it, (particularly coming from the West) which I think is worse than the climb itself. take it really steady there's no shame in stopping if you're arms are getting tired. Wrynose after that is easy in comparison going in this direction.

I've never done the Fred but I would assume its one of the hardest sportives you can do given the concentration of the 4000m of climbing and the inability to capitalise on many of the descents (road condition, weather etc)

To do the " Fred " in a reasonable time ,say under 7.5 hrs, you probably will need to be riding 250 miles per week during the month prior to the event. Gearing is a very personal choice, however I have trained up Hardknott on 39/27 in the past  without walking, though in the actual event  that 33% bend near the summit had me  off the bike. Incidentally the quickest and easiest way to walk up Hardknott is to shoulder your bike cyclo X style and take to the  grass verge, as cleats and steep tarmac don't mix too well !

Oh, and loose 3 kg. !

Gutted.

I was penciling this ride in as a training ride to see where I am at for the Etape in July .

Guess I will have to look at some other rides instead.

As for advice, I would do as much climbing as possible.

snappy: how fit are you? how much do you weigh?

Hardknott and Wrynose (and Honister, to a lesser extent) are pretty brutal. When I rode the FW I was reasonably fit but overweight (98kg) - I got up Hardknott on a 34x32 but I reckon I'd have been walking on anything bigger.

It's a good idea to practice the technical skill of riding stuff that's 25% plus. A lot of people are walking not because they're not fit enough to climb it, but because they've stopped because they've spun out the rear wheel and it's impossible to get going again. Fit grippy tyres

Gearing: Compact chainset running 34-28 should be plenty, or possibly a 30, but anything bigger than that on the cassette will have you sliding the back wheel on the steep bits if they're wet (Which they ususally are), and once your wheel slips, that's a get-off and walk from there! 

Book your acommodation now, Grasmere as first choice, but otherwise Ambleside as you don't want to be riding back too far at the end.

Register on the Saturday so that you can just pitch up  and ride on the Sunday.

If you have a sub 8 hour time in mind, start an hour later than the mass start at 6..... the first main descent of Kirkstone always has a number of incidents where riders get it wrong, and the fewer people around to take you out, the better.

Take it easy on all the descents if you've never ridden them before- you won't lose too much time.

Get plenty of hill work in beforehand.

Take a selection of gear- summer down south can be winter up north (I've always found base layer, s/s jersey, gilet, sleeves, 3/4 bib & braces and waterproof overshoes to work well).

Enjoy the scenery.

And if you can't make it, give me your number as i didn't make the ballot selection this time 

Since you ask:

lose 10kg

take a triple

move to Yorkshire

In fact, that would be my lifestyle advice in general, really.  Enjoy your ride.