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forum
Falling off on new road surface
Hi all, wanted to canvas opinion, fell off my bike in September on a flat, straight and new section of road (had been down a couple of months) leading up to a junction, I broke my ribs and have not been out since! I perceive this to be a worse hazard than pot holes and no longer have the confidence to go out in any sort of wet weather if the roads are so slippery in certain places, I am not a new cyclist and have frequently exercised caution especially going round corners, I unclip the relevant foot incase of slippage, hence on this occasion I was not unclipped because the road was straight and I was not expecting it, does anyone else have any experience of a similar occurence?
I contacted a personal injury company because I feel the road repairers should be putting down anti slip and they are at fault, I also believe that perhaps they are using better materials in the tarmac to perhaps make it more hard wearing and hence, I believe, more slippery in the wet compared to previous road surfaces. A friend of mine rides horses along the same stretch of road and the horse a couple of weeks ago lost its footing and she fell off, luckily no injury, which she has also commented that such an event has not happened to her before in many years of horse riding. The personal injury company said that they did not have enough to make a case. Do anyone have any views on this please?
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36 comments
Just to sum up, I think I have found most of what I wanted to know, if you crashed a car you'd want to know why and learn from it, not just get back in it right? I think change of surfaces means I have to change tyres, but I may just have been unlucky and hit some diesel (most likely), thanks so much for all your positive and constructive help.
Even with new surfaces, being greasy it's difficult to see it other than rider error, hence the personal injury company's response.
Road bikes have fairly small footprint combined with tyres that tend to the harder compounds, makes for bikes where one needs to exersize some caution on some surfaces.
New Asphalt can be oily.
Plus this incident was in September - we had a long dry summer, and its always a bit hairy cycling in the rain for the first time in a few months - you forget how slippery it can be.
Bike Food makes a good point; what tyres do you generally use?
I swear by Conti GP4000s; they basically stick me to the road. Sure, they're £60 a pair (minimum) and have to be replaced relatively frequently, but for peace of mind I'll not deviate.
Thanks good comment, however please see my reply to Bike Food.
New road bad!
"I contacted a personal injury company because I feel the road repairers should be putting down anti slip and they are at fault"
If you are not wanting money then why say you are...
I think it must be time for you to change your tampon!
you say new road, how much rain had there been between laying and the day of the crash?
I haven't noticed it so much this year, but last winter things did get pretty dicey on some roads.
New road, plus diesel allowed to build up for a few weeks then a light shower, just enough to lift the crap and hey presto ice rink.
Thanks, I think you could be right here, good constructive comment.
Very odd. I'd ask around the local area and cycling clubs - have they come off on the same road ? Maybe even put a sign up at the area ?
If nobody else has come off then it must be a freak incident ?
If a few have come off - then you might have a case and there might be people willing to take this up with the council. Presumably they can test for slip rating ?
Have you been back to check the road ?
Your history of riding should tell you that falls like this are very rare.
I do so love interacting with the on line alter egos of attention seekers posting fictional tales of misfortune.
I think this one has a pet ferret IIRC.
This is not fictional, a genuine enquiry, I did actually fall off and injure myself and seek to understand why, am not seeking sympathy or attention, thanks a lot...........
I've had the back end step out on a straight bit of road before, no idea how I managed to stay upright & it certainly made me nervous for a few weeks after.
I put this down to a change of tyres however.
I've been a lifelong Continental user e.g. GP4000s, 4 Seasons and sometimes Specialized Armadillos, I thought I'd try some Vittoria Rubino Pros, they were okay in the dry but in wet or damp conditions they were lethal. I think the compound is quite hard which may make the tyre durable but doesn't inspire confidence in the wet, I took them off immediately.
Thanks, this is very valid as I was on Vittoria Rubino Pro's, the slick version, I have been running them for the last 2 years without issue however. I also have the version with tread on that I used during last winter during all the wet conditions, again without issue. I was drawn to using them on account of a large amount of punctures I was suffering and have not had any since running these. I believe that in conjunction with road surface improvement and/or possible diesel spillage they are not suitable other than dry conditions. I am thinking to go back to the treaded version for winter and also to use normal pedals and flat shoes so as I can get my leg out if required, in order to build confidence back. I get your point about better tyres, but I am not convinced as there is still such a small contact patch, I also believe running lower pressures is good, but this will not save me if there is diesel on the road, in fact nothing will. The ultimate scenario will be in good time when most of the resurfacing/diesel spillage is complete perhaps. I hope this is valid to us all, as new risks are arising and we all should consider, thanks again.
I lost the front wheel on an icy bit of 50 mm concrete edging that divided two bits of car park at the local nature reserve. Smashed my knee and left me limping for ages. I had to take a several weeks off the bike to make that injury go away. I still don't feel the need to seek compensation.
I honestly don't know why people do this - go fishing for support because they are about to try and screw money out of an insurer/bike shop/etc etc in dubious circumstances. If you were sure you were in the right you would not need to ask for peer approval.
There is another chap on the forums who does this in relation to the LBS when he wants something he broke in the first place fixed for free.
Not my angle, just felt that the road must be extra slippery, not pursueing it further, get off your horse!
Hello again all,
Firstly I should like to point out that I am not a "nervous rider"or someone who can't ride properly, I have plenty of Strava segments that would proove otherwise, also it is not in my personality to want to sue the rain for falling out of the sky! Furthermore I thank you all for your comments, especially to those referring to road surfaces being laid in a different way, these being the most helpful, especially Nixster who seems to totally get where I am coming from, the sarcastic and patronising comments being not so helpful................yawn!
I too am confused what caused me to crash, part of my mission here was to establish if other riders are experiencing the same issues on new road surfaces, I completed many miles of wet riding last year, including around corners amazingly, before they started the massive resurfacing program here, without falling off, even on the same stretch of road. I would not expect to fall off in a straight line, I had no lack of confidence before I fell off, in fact that pretty much didnt help as I did not expect to fall off when I did and hence was caught unawares, somebody here has mentioned that I must have had an unlucky accident which I am prepared to go with.
I agree that new road surfaces are for the greater good, far superior in the dry, I was just asking a question really, to fall off as easily as I did seemed quite ridiculous and I feel there must have been a large amount of diesel/oil on the road combined with the extra smooth surface to make it so slippery.
Just to sum up, I am a family man with 3 children and hence a lot of responsibilities, the A & E doctor told me I was lucky not to puncture a lung and I should allow for full healing before venturing out, it is easy to say "Man up" if you don't have a family to support, I was off work for 3 weeks, its not the sort of injury you want to end up with, I certainly don't need it again, so be careful out there! If you do hurt yourself then God help you, because no one else will. I don't lack motivation to get back on the bike I have been using my turbo trainer to get going again...................
A few comments caught up in the road surface and what to call it here...
I am confused as to what caused you to crash. You are talking about the surface, but even on a new, flat, straight bit of road it is quite something for the wheels to just go sideways and bring you down. Unclipping on a corner regularly could actually make things worse. A normal urban turn should not require this. I've only seen (and only done this myself a few times) when you over cook a turn on a steep descent and are still braking as you turn and have to stop or crash into the corner. Its best to do most of your braking before the turn, not during.
There are lots of tips for braking and cornering safely on GNC:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpo_AcVmerA
If in doubt, get some flat pedals and a hybrid with none skinny wheels.
Finally, the councils are already busy coping with compensation claims because of poor old roads, we don't need people claiming for crashes on new roads as an excuse for them to do nothing. New surfaces are for the greater good, unless you would prefer gravel. Rule 5. sounds harsh but it is succinct. The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.
I too am confused how I fell off, I do not perceive it to be normal under the circumstances, other people here have posted constructive reasons such as diesel contamination which is my favourite, I do not subscribe to sueing culture, however I consider this event very odd and your comments to be negative and patronising, new surfaces definitely better I agree, but more dangerous in the wet! I am not looking to blame or sue just to understand the difference, I appreciate that it is not the fault of the roads company but it could be if they spilt the diesel? From the sound of it I would say that you do not have a lot of new roads around you, look out if they start resurfacing and I hope you don't fall off and break your ribs anytime soon!
FYI Junctions/roundabouts are prone to oil/diesel contamination from standing traffic dropping such materials making these areas extra slippy, unclipping before a corner is fine, I dont do it in the middle!
Yawn yawn rule number 5, 'nuff said...
The English term is the eponym "Tarmac".
Or even "Tar Macadam", also once known as a "metalled road".
Yes new tarmac can be greasy but it's not as bad as people think, certainly not as bad as the current levels of diesel contamination.
The word tarmac isn't used in the construction sector as it's too easily confused with the construction firm Tarmac. Asphalt is the internationally accepted term and has been for many years. Otherwise though, you're correct.
double post
Thats funny as we sell Tarmac and call it errr...Tarmac.
It may be an "eponym," but it's also a registered trademark (and yes, we've had the email from the company pointing that out).
Presumably that's the main reason it's avoided in the construction industry, unless specifically talking about the firm/product?
I don't suppose a vacuum cleaner salesman would talk about a 'hoover' when flogging you an Electrolux or Henry (though Henry the Hoover has a nice alliterative and bisyllabic ring to it).
And avoid 'portakabin' when talking about generic temporary buildings - they're quite fond of the standard letter too. Tempted to flush them down the portaloo
I was behind a couple of horses on a stretch of newly resurfaced road last Sunday and called out to the riders asking if it was safe to pass. They said OK, but to be careful as the surface was slippery, whereupon the back legs of one horse slipped from under it.
Luckily no damage to horse or rider.
The way asphalt is laid was changed a few years back. Previous the gungy tar mix was poured and levelled, then finally stone rolled into the top surface. This meant that most of the contact with the road was with a clean stone surface.
Then it was changed so the stones are pre-mixed with the gungy tar and the whole lot laid and levelled. Thus all the stones have a coating of oily tar. Contact with a newly laid road is therefore entirely onto an oily surface. It takes weeks or even months for the surface oil to wash and wear away.
So yes, for some years now new blacktop has been lethal on 2 wheels. Even 4 wheels won't stop very quickly on it. There were loads of complaints from cyclist and motorcyclist groups when this change occurred. No reversal or redress is gonna happen though.
Err, that's not quite the case. Asphalt mix is prepared in an asphalt plant then carried in trucks to site, where it's tipped into an asphalt paver. Bitumen is used to bind the stones together, not tar. The asphalt is mostly stone and contains only a small percentage of asphalt. Some oils are present on the surface initially. Yes, anti-skid properties can be poor initially as I said. However, this method of road construction is quicker, more efficient and delivers a smoother and longer lasting surface than the old fashioned techniques.
That's not quite the case either. There has been a change in surfacing over the last 10 years or so. Traditionally an asphalt mix containing a variety of smaller aggregates (stones and sand) was laid and larger sized chipping rolled in as a separate operation. This is known as HRA with chips. Now more commonly an asphalt mix of stones with a higher proportion of sand is used and no chippings are rolled in. This is known as SMA.
The difference is that the chips stuck out from the surface and provided the skid resistance in HRA but in SMA the skid resistance is provided by the smaller stones which are part of the asphalt mix. This is fine once the bitumen has worn off the stones at the surface however until then SMA has poor skid resistance for a couple of weeks or so after laying. This is pretty commonly understood so SMA surfacing usually has warning signs put up when laid. For some reason horses are particularly affected - I think the British Horse Society had a campaign about it.
Anyway, back to our horizontal friend who posted. If the surfacing was SMA and no signs were evident you may get a sympathetic hearing from the highway authority if you can demonstrate this was the case. Not sure you would have sufficient grounds to sue them but they may make an offer of compensation? I'd imagine you would need some evidence in the way of photos etc. As it was a month or more ago you may be too late to take them now though.
Sorry if all that was a bit dull!
Oh and hardly anyone calls it Tarmac any more in the industry.
Man up, Get back on the horse...
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