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Who uses a Mid-Compact 52/36?
Anyone use a Mid-Compact 52/36 crankset? As opposed to a Standard 53/39 or Compact 50/34. I am thinking of changing my range, I currently use a 11-28 10speed cassette and have no more room on the back. I won't say anymore as sometimes when I ask questions like these people will start coming up with solutions to problems I don't have, so I will just let you wax lyrical; mid compact best of both worlds? Anyone gone mid and won't go back or regretting it?
If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.
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Bought 52/36 11-28 for my new 105 groupset last year.
Feel like I would have been better off with 50/34 or even 50/36. I simply don't use much of the higher end of the cassette when I'm in the big ring. I can happily cruise along at 22 mph with a few gears still left to use.
No problems at the lower end however, 36 28 as the lowest gearing is tough on the REALLY steep inclines, but more than manageable.
Re-reading this, I contributed to it 2 years ago when I had a bike with a 53-39 and 12-27. I think changed it to a 12-29, as it helped me stay closer to my mates with compacts on the climbs.
I then got a new bike which came with a mid-compact and 11-28. Within a year I was booked on the Fred Whitton so changed up further to 11-32 (you need a longer cage derailleur too). I wouldn't go back now, the range of gears is perfect for me - living in the SE of the UK, the toughest hills are Barhatch or Bignor and nothing takes 10 minutes to climb. If I was in hillier country I would go for a proper compact.
I think the main benefit of a mid-compact is you can tailor your gearing without breaking the bank - you can do whatever at the back plus I think you can change the chain rings on a mid because they have the same bcd as compacts?
Revenge of the Thread Notification.
52/36 with an 11-32 cassette, because faster at one end and... More... Climb-y at the other. Maybe.
Not sure I get that 'cadence zone' theory.
Your cranks and wheels are directly connected, if your cranks are rotating at a particular cadence then your wheels must also be turning at a particular rate therefore you will be travelling at a particular speed (assuming you're not going downhill).
If you are wobbling all over the bike you will be wasting power but as long as your cadence remains the same it won't affect your speed.
I ride a compact with 50 and 38 tooth rings with a 13-25 cassette. The drop from the 50 ring to a 34 was way too much and if I cant spin 50x13 fast enough I freewheel for a few seconds until the 1 in 5 hill levels off slightly. I live in hilly south Wales and 38x25 is low enough for anything I come across and also means that I dont have big jumps between gears.
this. I have ridden fixed lots. Once spun out on 39x15 at 42 mph. I was seeing double my head was bouncing. I use 12 top max - the extra cog is more use in the middle of the cassette. 16t difference on the front is too much and needs three or four shifts on the back for the shift on the front. Used to race on 53/42 and train on 48/38. Now I pootle on 52/36 or 50/34 but the triple shifts are a pain in the butt and I'm buying a 46 for the winter bike and a 39 for the summer bike. It's easy to spin out 50x12 or 50x13 on a steep hill, but in winter I'm not going flat out down steep hills.
Re - spinning out: This is actually a quite subjective term. If you are going downhill fast sure you can spin out on anything. But if you are on the flat with a compact what some people mean by spinning out is slightly different. If you have a low cadence but find yourself in a gear and terrain that requires a higher cadence you can find your legs spinning around in a higher cadence than you are used to. You might not feel that you are effectively delivering pressure to the pedals. Your cadence might be high but your power is low. I call this over-rotation. I often pass city riders spinning and bouncing along in low gears. Similarly under-rotation means grinding away at a low cadence in a high gear. There is a cadence zone for each gear that delivers power. I have found that by improving my pedaling style I can still deliver power at a higher cadence where before I would have just been moving my legs.
In other words, you can push up to 60 rpm on a 50/11 =34kph but once you are there the only way to go faster is to increase cadence, but if you are not used to delivering 80-90rpm you will just be wobbling all over the shop and not going any faster.
Thanks to everyone here who has one; you all seem quite happy so I will give it a try. I had my new chain on today and had the familiar chook-chook of slippage from the back. Slow acceleration and the Labour Party conference made me two minutes late for work. So new cassette too; ah well another full rebuild.
And yeah, no, I won't be going near any Horseshoes or Passes any time soon until my components arrive and everything comes back together. The War Horse just has to get me 9.3km to work and back. Oh to live in a world were all components were shiny and new and not a frayed gear cable end in sight!
Working on your pedalling technique - and not just the speed - and how you hold your upper body will do more for you than 2 chainring teeth. Like any other technique, it takes a considerable amount of time and dedicated practice (this is not the same as just riding around) but it's worth the effort. A good pianist does not require an expensive grand piano to play beautiful music but they will have practised for many, many hours.
Great information and explanation. This will help me out alot with understanding my cadence and pedaling technique.
I'm running a 50/34 compact with a 10 speed 28-11 cassette.
With that, I spin out at about 42/43mph... but these speeds are (for me) gravity assisted. (and its also not the sort of cadence I could sustain for that long either)
I live in a hilly area with plenty of 20-30% gradients to get up, and would not wish to go 'harder' then my 34:28 ratio. However if i could swap the big ring for a 51...
I'm running a 50/34 compact with a 10 speed 28-11 cassette.
With that, I spin out at about 42/43mph... but these speeds are (for me) gravity assisted. (and its also not the sort of cadence I could sustain for that long either)
I live in a hilly area with plenty of 20-30% gradients to get up, and would not wish to go 'harder' then my 34:28 ratio. However if i could swap the big ring for a 51...
50/36 for me too. What I like is the smaller jump between 52/36 or even 50/34, in both cases 14t gap...yuck! Can't push 50/12 on flat yet anyway so don't really need a bigger front ring yet.
Having ridden both standard and compact I think to 52/36 is a great combination.
Like has been said above, the jump down to a 34 does feel too big and I tended to spend most of the time on the 50 (even though the difference between 52/36 and 50/34 is exactly the same!!)
I regularly ride quite steep gradients (I live on the Stage 2 TdF route so train over Strines often) and have ridden the Fred the last 3 years. I have 11 speed so a 12-28 gets up and down anything (although I've only used the 28 on Hardknott).
A lot of this is down to the type of rider you are though. A lot of old school riders like to feel a gear and push rather than spin. It's also down to where you are going to be doing the majority of your riding.
It's the individuality that makes cycling the sport it is but also means we all have an opinion on everything!!
I'd say the 36/52 gives you more usable gears which is what's most important.
Bummer that you didn't complete the Etape. There's still time to enter the Horseshoe hill climb on 5 October here.
The previous times it dropped from the inner ring were a warning, it was likely to (and unfortunately did) get worse; often it's that the mech stop is not set correctly, though there are other possible causes.
I don't want to unnecessarily ruffle your feathers, but I really do not understand you spinning out with a 50t front ring, I can only manage that on a long descent, when I can freewheel. I have bikes with 50 and 52 and the difference is insignificant. 50x11 is a feckin' big gear:
50 x 11 = 120" or 9.6 m
52 x 11 = 124" or 10.0 m
Are you over-thinking the permutations of chainset combinations? If you need the lower gears afforded by a compact then a slightly lower top gear is not such a terrible price to pay. With a suitable rear mech you can try other cassettes e.g. 11-32.
See you at the Ponderosa on the 5th
I run one of those oddball 50/36 with a 11/12-25 at back. Gets me up 20% likes of Cow n calf or Langbarr with a fair amount of grunting. As for flat, I'm happy if I can cruise at 20mph.
To add some persepective: (if my maths is right) If you are turning a 50x11 gear at a healthy 80rpm then you're doing 28.5mph - with a 52x11 that's more like 30mph so it's not a huge difference.
I ride fixed and the 43x15 as that is what size chain ring was in the bit's box and the LBS only had 15t sprocket in stock. Any gentle incline will let you spin it out at 36mph. Who on earth thinks a 50t is too small?
Assuming you're on a 700c wheel and running 23's thats a cadence in excess of 150rpm (34mph is 152rpm and tharts as far up as the calculator I used goes!)
That's more than just spinning out, even on my fixed with 48x16 I find 30mph to be on the limit of spinning (128rpm).
It is the fastest I have had it up to on an incline, on the flat or gently rolling terrain the cadence and top speed is more sensible/realistic
I must admit that when it creeps up past 30 it gets a bit scary to say the least so I would not wish to repeat the experience of 36mph which I have only reached a few times, on the old mine access road it's a lot safer as it's uninterrupted for several miles down the valley, on other busier routes there is no way you are going to stop it if a vehicle pulls out on you
Don't try this at home kids
Who are all these people who spin out on a 50 11? And does the couple of mph added by a 52 chainring really make any difference?
Exactly, I don't see anyone other than professional riders using 53-11 for flat-ish routes
I personally can travel at 22 - 24mph on the flat with only a compact 50 ring, I don't have the power to sustain the 11 ring unless going slightly down hill, then I am doing 30+mph but not for long periods
If I am on slow end of cycling with that performance I give up on trying to get faster.
You seem to have two issues
1. You've got a damaged 39T chain ring.
Would need to replace the chain rings, chain and cassette (better to start fresh as it sounds like you've got a lot in the current set)
2.Then you say you also feel you could go to a mid as you've become less of a grinder and more of a spinner, and feel 39-28 isn't enough at the lower end?
Would need to replace chainset, as well as chain and cassette.
Which is the bigger issue to you and of more importance?
How much all of this will cost you depends on what you run.
A relife of my drive chain on Campagnolo 11 will cost me the best part of around £250, you could do a Shimano one for much less I imagine.
running a "mid mid compact" ... well 50/36 as I couldn't get a 34t to replace
the worn out one !!! Coupled with a 12-27 out back it's pretty much all I need
or want
My other bike has a 52/36 witha 12-27 but I may just change that to a 50t as
well ...
I 'ended up' with 52/36 after buying a new off the peg bike which I needed in a hurry to replace my stolen bikes.
I have only ever used 53/39 and begrudgingly accepted 52/36 as a compromise as I definitely did not want a compact.
Well I have to say having been using it now for over 3k miles with a 11-25 I have to say that this is a great combination. I haven't needed lower than 36*25 although if I was going to the Alps I may fit a 27 and 52*11 is enough for me. Maybe if I race again I will want a 53 but to be honest I would actually prefer a 12-25 for smoother changing.
Nzlucas, good morning there. Just changed the chain due to this problem. Last one was changed with the cassette last august. Cassette is in good condition with little wear and even wear if any. I was thinking of changing rear mech, cassette and chain in one lot next summer. The problem is not the chain, which I have now changed anyway. It is this chipped tooth. A new crankset is definitely required, so the question is just which one?
Those distances were just to give an idea of how far I ride. Quite a bit, though not compared to some others on this forum. I still don't quite have the money for spare drive trains hanging around for marginally different set ups, and no mechanic to swap them at the weekend for me. (Why not just have two bikes, a compact climbing bike for Derbyshire and a standard ranger bike for Cheshire? oh choices like a sweet shop.) Now that I have discovered there is a middle way. I am just looking for a bit of validation in case anyone has a reason not to go for this.
Not bought anything yet... well I guess I can say a little more: I did the Etape Cymru last Sunday and got 95km into it before having a disaster. This summer I have had a maybe half a dozen instances of the chain dropping off the front ring when climbing. I just popped it back and wasn't too concerned, however on the first big climb of the etape I got down into 39/28 and it dropped off a further 4 times in quick succession. I tried to avoid my lowest gear but had to resort to it again on some of the big stuff. After dropping twice on Horseshoe pass and with my gloves getting dirty I started to count. By the time I got to the base of World's End it had dropped 12 times. I turned the corner onto the steepest slope and 'clunk' it dropped again but this time the chain jammed and the hanger bent into my wheel. I pulled the hanger out and 'ping' it snapped. I had to walk down the hill after some kind direction (and no I didn't have the right tools to fix it.) I got some sympathy on the way down and one lady who I must have overtaken several times said 'Oh dear, It's given you hell all day.' A good Samaritan mountain biker with a greasy transit van [Ian?] gave me a lift back to my campsite near Wrexham on the way back to the start to collect his mate and I had to scoot back to the train station. DNF, they call it the toughest sportive, at least I didn't crash into the ford.
Damage so far 1. Pride, 2. New Hanger, 3. New Chain.
I have now diagnosed the problem is a chipped tooth on my 39 front ring. It is terminal and will drop off on any of my three smallest gears. I am stuck to the big ring, which is fine for commuting and getting plenty of rolling miles in but no hills.
Here is my kit rota
cranks dec11
rearmech dec 11
cassette aug13
bottom bracket nov 13
tyres dec13
brakes aug 14
hanger sept 14
chain sept 14 5000km in 2012 and 6000km in 2013, over 5000k 2014
So I need something new. When I got my current bike and three rebuilds ago in 2009 it was a compact. I quickly changed this as I didn't like spinning out on the flat like Scrufftie and was used to a standard on some earlier bikes. At the time I though 30km was a good bit of exercise and was mostly sprinting around urban areas. I have since expanded my horizons and venture into the countryside and increased the range and type of riding I do. After struggling with the London 100 last year in 39/25, I got a 28 for the back and is the most I can fit on there. This definitely helped but I still didn't want to loose the standard. Over last winter I tried to improve my pedaling style and cadence and found I now need to use the highest gears less often. I can now 'afford' to give away some teeth on the crank due to improving my riding. But it is only this week I have found out I am not stuck with a compact or same again, which leads me back here...
Are you saying you have 3 chains or 1 chain that has done all that milage?
If its one chain then its probably worn out which will not have helped the shifting. It will also have worn the chain rings teeth and cassettes. The chain ring especially starts to shift horribly once they start getting worn. If you change your chain more regularly then you have to change the cassette less (change at say .75mm stretch for instance) and the chain rings last longer.
secondly, on most popular crank sets standard is 130mm BCD and compact (including 36/52) are 110 BCD meaning you are going to have to buy a new crankset. So why not have both and swap them when you need them?
Currently run standard with 12-27, think a mid-compact will be perfect for me. Haven't been beaten by any of the hills in Sussex or Surrey but notice buddies with compacts stay seated for longer than me and generally spin away and pull out a gap on longer harder hills such as Whitedown and Barhatch. I think a mid-compact will be a better all round combination - might try the Fred next year or one of the tougher rides in Devon or Cornwall and know the standard would be hard work.
Purchase justification?
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