[Leviathan]

Not a new phenomenon, but it seems to be on the rise and very erksome. I am getting very sick of red-light hoppers, not jumpers. The fact is a lot of red-lights at main junctions can’t be jumped because of crossing traffic and the very real chance of being squished. So I am riding to work and overtake another biker, but get to the next junction and stop at the light. Same biker comes cruising past and stops at the corner in front of me. Not looking at the light or the line but looking at the traffic to see if he/she can pull away as soon as there is a gap or they stop coming. They pull away and so do I but now I am stuck behind their slow moving ass. I can’t overtake them because they are moving so slowly and overtaking cars are moving too quickly to move out and the road is too narrow, I am boxed in! I have no choice but to wait for the road to change or a gap in traffic. If I do get to move out a few hundred yards down the road I just get to the next set of lights and the whole maneuver repeats. Thankfully I can often put some distance between myself and them if I catch the end of a green.

I know this isn’t a piece of etiquette anyone ever gets taught but if I get overtaken by another rider (this rarely but inevitably does occur) who then stops at the next lights I don’t put myself in front of them. There are a lot of new people cycling, which is good, but by-heck some of them are knobs.

Feel free to criticize my don’t-get-in-my-way/holier-than-thou attitude, or my use of run-on sentences.

Topic

[FluffyKittenofTindalos]

cavmem1 wrote:
So in the same

cavmem1 wrote:

So in the same argument does that mean it’s ok for a driver to run you over because the laws being one sided mean you are an ‘ inconvenience ‘ to other people in their eyes?

So why is it you obey the laws of one nation but not another? Laws are laws they are to be complied with by all I am pretty sure there is no law that says ” well mucka you only need to follow this one only if you feel like it”. Traffic lights are designed to control the flow of traffic and not safety.

I’m not even defending RLJing (which I don’t do), but your comment here lacks logic. For starters, you start off making an analogy with a safety issue (running people over) then finish by declaring its not about safety, but traffic flow. Those two points contradict each other.

And as for obeying the laws of one nation but not another – well, I was going to say something about that, but decided it went way off-topic, so I’ve deleted it!

It is true that traffic lights, like everything else on the road system, are designed around motorised traffic. But, personally, I don’t think individually breaking the rules is the way to go, it just means you lose the moral high-ground while nothing really changes. I’m not going to defend a RLJing cyclist who gets nicked or injured doing it – you want to take the risk you accept the consequences.

But nor am I going to bang on tediously about other people with bikes doing it or invoke the ‘giving us a bad name’ crap (unless they do it while I’m crossing as a pedestrian, then I might have a go at that particular individual) – its just not the central issue.

[mrfree]

Drivers do run cyclists over.
Drivers do run cyclists over. And get away with it.

I thought I made myself clear. I’m of the opinion that law has little bearing on morals. Your right, there is no law that begins, ‘well mucka’. But you can live you life perfectly within the law and still be a c*nt. It works both ways.

Your argument is that traffic lights are designed to control the flow of traffic? Well ok. How come when I stop at a red and there’s no motorised vehicles around to make the sensor work, I have to sit at the light until a car turns up? Could it be that they are designed for motor vehicles?

I’m fed up of the complacency that cyclists are second to motor vehicles. Cyclists pay their equal share for the roads and don’t get much in return.

[bikebot]

Nick T wrote:Can we get the

Nick T wrote:

Can we get the thread back on topic please?

Here’s my favourite. 550 grams.

So that’s the problem, bloody hipsters!

[cavmem1]

mrfree wrote:I jump red

mrfree wrote:

I jump red lights (not all, but when it’s safe). Traffic lights (and roads) are designed for cars these days. Cyclists are merely an afterthought, if even that.

When I’m in the Netherlands I obey all the road rules because it is efficient and works.

Here I feel like I’m being forced off the road by traffic, and rarely feel safe. In fact, one of the few times I feel safest is when I jump a red light and have the road to myself for a while. After all, traffic lights are about safety, are they not?

Until the government proportionally respects the wishes of cyclists against that of motor vehicles, and supplies proper infrastructure, I will not obey their one-sided laws.

Liberty.

So in the same argument does that mean it’s ok for a driver to run you over because the laws being one sided mean you are an ‘ inconvenience ‘ to other people in their eyes?

So why is it you obey the laws of one nation but not another? Laws are laws they are to be complied with by all I am pretty sure there is no law that says ” well mucka you only need to follow this one only if you feel like it”. Traffic lights are designed to control the flow of traffic and not safety.

[Nick T]

Can we get the thread back on
Can we get the thread back on topic please?

Here’s my favourite. 550 grams.

[Chuck]

I don’t really get why people
I don’t really get why people feel the need to do this stuff. It mostly doesn’t really get them anywhere as far as I can see.

I see a few people on my commute who seem desperate to get on the pavement to avoid lights or having to wait at junctions, even though it often saves them no time (because they have to pi$$ about with crossing the road they’ve just left on the pedestrian crossing) and often makes them worse off 100m down the road when they have to wait for a gap in traffic to rejoin. If they just wait at the lights in primary they’d be far better off.

EDIT: I also think justifications on safety grounds are mostly red herrings, although I accept there might be the odd case where it makes sense. I’d say all the examples I see are driven purely and simply by not wanting to wait, or wait behind cars.

[shay cycles]

If you have taken primary
If you have taken primary position properly you can hold that position, controlling the following traffic whilst passing those slow starters and then allow traffic to pass – no need to look for gaps or to pull out to overtake them.

Biggest things though:

It’s not a race
Not even with Strava
Crossing the stop line on red is an offence (calling it RLJ or hopping doesn’t change that)
It isn’t worth the rage
Swearing on public forums indicates significant rage and we don’t much like that in drivers do we?

Cycling is supposed to be good for stress levels and it is if you avoid getting worked up with everyone else’s behaviour.

[fukawitribe]

mrfree wrote:Until the

mrfree wrote:

Until the government proportionally respects the wishes of cyclists against that of motor vehicles, and supplies proper infrastructure, I will not obey their one-sided laws.

Liberty.

Stupidity.

[mrfree]

I jump red lights (not all,
I jump red lights (not all, but when it’s safe). Traffic lights (and roads) are designed for cars these days. Cyclists are merely an afterthought, if even that.

When I’m in the Netherlands I obey all the road rules because it is efficient and works.

Here I feel like I’m being forced off the road by traffic, and rarely feel safe. In fact, one of the few times I feel safest is when I jump a red light and have the road to myself for a while. After all, traffic lights are about safety, are they not?

Until the government proportionally respects the wishes of cyclists against that of motor vehicles, and supplies proper infrastructure, I will not obey their one-sided laws.

Liberty.

[OldRidgeback]

stumps wrote:Storm in a

stumps wrote:

Storm in a teacup.

Just forget about them and try not to get to wound up, its not worth it !

+1, or if not buy a BMW and drive like a twunt
🙂

[Stumps]

Storm in a teacup.
Just
Storm in a teacup.

Just forget about them and try not to get to wound up, its not worth it !

[Anonymous]

If you cross the stop-line
If you cross the stop-line then you have jumped the red light. Whether you go on through the junction against the red light, or not, is immaterial. 👿

[Argos74]

If the ASL box is unoccupied
If the ASL box is unoccupied and there’s a small group of cyclists, I generally take the primary and let people zoom off on the nearside, while I ease out in the primary. Blocks the left hook in its tracks, and slows me down a bit.

But after seeing two very close shaves from left hooks recently (including this morning, blackhatchbackman, the next one may not have disc brakes you miserable bumbduckcunglefunt), it’s so worth it.

Some of the more blatant RLJers and Pavement Hoppers. There’s only one sane rational response. Burn ’em, drop ’em hard. And freewheel past ’em singing some of the lyrics from Disco Inferno.

[PhilRuss]

[[[[[ Yeah but no but…has
[[[[[ Yeah but no but…has anybody tried queuing, politely, at a bus stop any time in the last 20 years? You’re 3rd in line, the bus arrives—you’re suddenly 13th.
Do we expect cyclists–or people on bikes–to behave any better? The words “rat” and “race” occur to one, and it will only get worse. Try not to get wound up, I tell myself.
P.R.

[Jack Osbourne snr]

surly_by_name wrote:Is it OK

surly_by_name wrote:

Is it OK to criticise you for misspelling irksome?

I do this all the time (roll past people who have stopped at the back of/in the ASL “box”). I think it has become a habit because I tend to commute at a time when the ASL box looks like a scrum and most of the people on my commute – especially the ones on bicycles – make me feel nervous for my personal safety so I want to get away from them as quickly as possible. I don’t recall having any complaints but then I don’t hang around to take views from other road users, so maybe there’s a whole crowd of aggrieved individuals behind me.

My strong advice would be to drop the self righteous adherence to a pointless rule and get as far forward as you can at intersections. Or was the point of your of your “question” to explain just how much quicker you are than everyone else?

You, as a faster rider, rolling past others in an ASL “scrum” is an entirely different scenario.

Your encouragement to others to break the law on “safety” grounds is also questionable.

[Author]

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