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Junior Tour of Wales rerouted due to 20mph limit

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  • August 23, 2024 at 4:43 am #32941
    Cayo

    Very unfortunate something wasn’t worked out. It ought to be possible with rolling road closure events, so I have to imagine some legislation got in the way.

    [QUOTE] Three of the five stages of the Junior Tour of Wales, which starts on Friday, have been changed as support vehicles would not be able to keep up with the riders without speeding.

    The race’s finish has also been moved from Nantgaredig, Carmarthenshire, the home of three-time Olympic cycling medallist Emma Finucane.

    …

    Richard Hopkins, the race organiser, said: “A Welsh government scheme designed to enable cycle races to manage race and public safety through 20mph zones has failed, leaving us with a major problem.

    “Even though there was only seven miles of 20mph across the whole 237-mile, four-day race, and even then split into a number of very short sections, we couldn’t guarantee to manage all of them safely.”

    …

    The Welsh government: “The priority for any race is always to ensure that it is safe for all participants and other road users in accordance with police/highway authority requirements.

    “The introduction of 20mph does not change this position.

    “We have worked with the race organisers to develop various options to ensure the race can go ahead.” [/QUOTE]

    In contrast to companies moaning about cycling adversely affecting business, the pub at the intended finish is annoyed they will [I]lose[/I] custom.

    Full BBC report at https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4glzl7e157o

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  • August 25, 2024 at 10:23 am #1023573
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    Velophaart_95

    Closing the road is

    Closing the road is relatively easy, and is done regularly in towns/ cities. The problem is suspending the Road Traffic Act, which requires a seperate Act, which can be time consuming…….and the reason why we didn’t see any closed road motorsport on the UK mainland until recently (apart from the Birmingham SuperPrix & Jim Clark Rally).

    Organisers will either have to re-route future races, or apply for dispensation from the Welsh government to suspend the 20mph limit, allowing race vehicles to keep up with the race.

    August 24, 2024 at 5:51 pm #1023571
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    gdb

    In the cycling weekly story

    In the cycling weekly story the organiser said that he was talking to Welsh Cycling who were apparently trying to agree some sort of “mitigation” (presumably legislation to grant exemptions from the limit) with the Welsh government, but this didn’t amount to anything in the end and there wasn’t enough time to apply for road closures.
     

    August 23, 2024 at 3:48 pm #1023569
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    Cayo

    mdavidford]

    Jimmy</p> <p></strong><br />[quote=mdavidford wrote:
    Which makes this sound more like a story about an organisational screw-up somewhere than one that’s really about the 20mph limit.

    Probably/possibly a combination of the two. Perhaps red tape regarding a suspension of the lower limits resulted in it taking longer to secure. But I’m just speculating.

    Ironically, I can see the anti-20 motorists having a field day when they see a story that two of their objects of derision (20mph roads and cyclists) are in any way causing each other problems. ?

    August 23, 2024 at 3:41 pm #1023567
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    Cayo

    Jimmy Ray Will wrote:

    Jimmy Ray Will wrote:

    The key thing to remember is that this race, and other amateur races are not running a rolling road closure… These races however run in live traffic. Junctions are closed as required, but the road remains open around the race.

    Thanks, that’s the clarification we needed. So, it’s like a small scale TT race, just with the addition of race vehicles (and obviously bunches of riders rather than single riders stretched out over a course).

    And yes, we’ve seen the results of rogue motorists bursting onto even closed road events, so this scenario is even riskier.

    August 23, 2024 at 2:53 pm #1023565
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    mdavidford
    Jimmy Ray Will wrote:
    The key thing to remember is that this race, and other amateur races are not running a rolling road closure.

    Ah – well that makes more sense then. I’m pretty sure the earlier version of the story I read suggested it was on closed roads, but it now says

    The race is not on closed roads, as temporary road closure orders were not secured in time.

    Which makes this sound more like a story about an organisational screw-up somewhere than one that’s really about the 20mph limit.

    August 23, 2024 at 2:15 pm #1023563
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    andystow

    Is this not essentially a

    Is this not essentially a closed road event?

    When they run the Isle of Man TT, do the motorcyclists stick to the speed limits, or is there some legal way around it? It doesn’t seem like it would be very exciting to watch if they obeyed the speed limits.

    August 23, 2024 at 1:46 pm #1023561
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    Jimmy Ray Will

    There are two safety elements

    There are two safety elements;

    – the general public will no longer be expecting traffic to be travelling faster than 20mph

    – the convoy would not be able to operate effectively if taking into account the speed limit.

    On that second point, I’ve driven lead car in races previously, including on a route with a 30mph sector. This took careful management as if you get too far ahead of the riders, you are no longer providing protection to either riders or the general public. If you are too close to the riders, and unable to travel faster (due to speed limits) then you become a danger and impede the riders.

    It’s hard at 30mph, so I’d argue impossible at 20mph. 

    The key thing to remember is that this race, and other amateur races are not running a rolling road closure. If they were, what happens inside the race bubble is fair game. These races however run in live traffic. Junctions are closed as required, but the road remains open around the race. The positioning of the lead cars and convoy effectively closes the road to anyone pulling on to the circuit, bu if someone wanted to be an ah-hole, they could… and they do!

    August 23, 2024 at 11:26 am #1023559
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    mdavidford

    I always thought the road

    I always thought the road closures effectively suspended the rules of the road for the passage of the race. Certainly on the larger races, none of the vehicles seem to pay much attention to speed limits (or, for that matter, road markings, etc.).

    Perhaps, though, as Chris suggests, it’s more about the peripheral logistics, outside of the rolling road closure.

    August 23, 2024 at 11:19 am #1023557
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    chrisonabike

    “It’s not about the bike”. 

    “It’s not about the bike”.  Per many road races it’s about the motor vehicles or (being less contentious) the “logistics” – which of course always involve motor vehicles.

    Given that I’m sure they’re aware that emergency vehicles have a certain degree of latitude with speed limits when they state “safety” it’s presumably about how they organise marshalling (perhaps “safety vehicles” proceeding / following the race)?

    Or is it really simply about getting the usual support vehicles (food / bikes, race officials, any media) along – and they can’t do that easily within the law (so those vehicles slowing / re-routing would constitute the safety hazard for the racers)?

    (Genuine question – I am not the world’s biggest cycle racing fan).

    August 23, 2024 at 11:16 am #1023555
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    Cayo

    mdavidford wrote:

    mdavidford wrote:

    I struggled to understand the quotes on this – apparently the new speed limit is irrelevant and the deciding factor is whether the race can be run safely, and yet somehow the same route that was safe in previous years suddenly isn’t any more?

    ?‍♂️

    In short, the cyclists can race as normal (since speed limits don’t apply to them), but the team cars must abide by the 20mph limit and so couldn’t legally keep pace with the riders.

    I’m guessing the organisers’ “couldn’t guarantee… safely” bit means either they needed too many marshall etc or, more likely, the law couldn’t be amended in such a way to enable the cars to ‘speed’ for the duration of the race passing TV through the 20mph zones.

    August 23, 2024 at 10:54 am #1023553
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    mdavidford

    I struggled to understand the

    I struggled to understand the quotes on this – apparently the new speed limit is irrelevant and the deciding factor is whether the race can be run safely, and yet somehow the same route that was safe in previous years suddenly isn’t any more?

    ?‍♂️

    August 23, 2024 at 10:43 am #1023551
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    Cayo

    S.E. wrote:

    S.E. wrote:

    BTW all new cars sold from 7 July 2024 must have Intelligent Speed Assistance (ISA) speed limiter tech fitted.

    Which can be legally disabled from what I’ve read, making it all but redundant for those who willfully disobey speed limits anyway.

    August 23, 2024 at 6:52 am #1023549
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    S.E.

    I guess mandatory speed

    I guess mandatory speed limiters on bikes are coming… together with ABS for disc brakes, etc…

    BTW all new cars sold from 7 July 2024 must have Intelligent Speed Assistance (ISA) speed limiter tech fitted.

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