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Aaaaarggghh! *Sparrow* Crossings.

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  • December 8, 2022 at 9:14 pm #32364
    mattw

    Catching up with the latest Tranche 3 scheme in my area which is now in consultation.

    And I have discovered a YABUW – Yet Another Buzz Word. A sparrow crossing.

    Does anyone know what these are?

    AFAICS it is described as a “signalised parallel crossing”, which I interpret as a Toucan with distinct lanes for bikes and pedestrians or (being concise) a slightly different paint arrangement.

    Here’s a video from Salford describing one on Gillbent Road near Thorn Grove Primary School.

    I’d say it is improved but somewhat interim infra which will need a revisit, because there are obvious limitations such as the road not having been trffic-calmed in any real way and beg buttons rather than detection loops so people on bikes have to stop. And the diversion around the BT Box making the capacity lower, rather than making the lanes wider at the junction which is the more correct thing to do.

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Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 15 total)
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  • December 9, 2022 at 3:53 pm #1008941
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    chrisonabike

    I say, how did the sparrow

    I say, how did the sparrow cross the … oh, OK.

    December 9, 2022 at 3:49 pm #1008939
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    brooksby

    ShutTheFrontDawes wrote:

    ShutTheFrontDawes wrote:
    Or a Cock crossing, for…. People who are too chicken to cycle on the road with the cars?

    Wouldn’t a cock crossing be for the motorists? 😉

    December 9, 2022 at 3:09 pm #1008925
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    Backladder

    It would be good to see a

    It would be good to see a video taken at a busier time, I don’t know how they got so few cars when they filmed this one. Gillbent is a very busy road at rush hour, I suspect most kids will just take the most direct route and walk/ride between the stationary cars

    December 9, 2022 at 2:50 pm #1008937
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    Bmblbzzz

    It seems to differ from a

    It seems to differ from a Toucan crossing only in details, being functionally the same. And as others have said, beg buttons on any cycle route immediately render it second-class status.

    December 9, 2022 at 2:22 pm #1008935
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    hawkinspeter
    brooksby wrote:
    I read the headline for this and honestly thought you were on about a crossing for sparrows (like hedgehogs, toads, et al) <face/palm>

    Maybe they’ve got tired wings?

    December 9, 2022 at 2:19 pm #1008933
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    ShutTheFrontDawes

    Or a Cock crossing, for….
    Or a Cock crossing, for…. People who are too chicken to cycle on the road with the cars?

    December 9, 2022 at 2:04 pm #1008931
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    brooksby

    I read the headline for this

    I read the headline for this and honestly thought you were on about a crossing for sparrows (like hedgehogs, toads, et al) <face/palm>

    December 9, 2022 at 2:01 pm #1008929
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    mark1a

    How about a “Bearded Tit”

    How about a “Bearded Tit” crossing for Hoxton and Shoreditch?

    December 9, 2022 at 1:23 pm #1008927
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    belugabob

    We need a penguin crossing,
    We need a penguin crossing, for those folks who aren’t particularly quick on the feet.

    December 9, 2022 at 10:02 am #1008923
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    OnYerBike

    The crossing itself seems ok

    The crossing itself seems ok – clear for all road users. I would prefer automatic sensors for cyclists rather than a beg button (or even green default with sensors for cars – I can dream!) but that’s a minor gripe. 

    But I did have a nosey around on Streetview, and as is all to frequently the case, this piece of “nice” infrastructure seems to be pretty isolated and not thought through in terms of all the ways it might be used. In particular, 50m down the road there’s the classic “Cyclists Rejoin Carriageway”. Looks OK if you’re heading westbound onto Newlands Ave, but there’s no good way of joining Gillbent Road. There’s also no good way of getting onto the cycle track if you’re coming eastbound on Newlands Ave (there’s a dropped curb but you’re simply hoping no cars turn down Newlands Ave if you take that route). If you’re heading southbound on Gillbent Road and want to turn left to cut through to Woodstock Ave, it looks like a nastily sharp corner to do it properly – and strictly speaking if the lights on Gillbent Road were red you would have to wait for them to change before taking that corner. Lastly, if you’ve come from Woodstock Ave and want to turn left onto Gillbent Road southbound, there’s no good way of doing that.

    As chrisonatrike says, it was probably designed with one very specific journey in mind (getting kids from a certain area of housing to a certain school) and no consideration was given to anyone else who might want to use the facility as part of a different journey. 

    December 9, 2022 at 1:34 am #1008921
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    IanMSpencer

    Or for rare, well designed
    Or for rare, well designed crossings:

    https://cdn.road.cc/wp-content/uploads/roadcc/P1030358.jpg

    December 9, 2022 at 1:33 am #1008919
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    IanMSpencer

    How about British garden
    How about British garden birds – finches would be a good start:

    https://cdn.road.cc/wp-content/uploads/roadcc/P1030496.jpg

    December 9, 2022 at 1:30 am #1008915
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    mattw

    I’d punt that it is likely to

    I’d punt that it is likely to be safe routes to schools and part of the catchment area is on the other side of that road, which would be an easy win with a good reward in cycle movements terms, and a building block to a better network funded by Government.

    Also, most of the small roads in the area seem to be 20mph limits, and the road with the school has had modal filtering at the crossing end for some time.

    December 9, 2022 at 1:25 am #1008917
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    mattw

    I want a P-P-P-Ptarmigan

    I want a P-P-P-Ptarmigan crossing, a Pochard crossing, a Parrot crossing, and a Pied Wagtail crossing.

    December 8, 2022 at 10:48 pm #1008913
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    chrisonabike

    New to me.  First look –

    New to me.  First look – messy but functional.  Width is good, clear demarcation of cycling and pedestrians is good, kerbs etc.  As you say though missing detector loops (whoops) and in about 50 yards it’s already diverted you from a straight line, but… OK.  When he says “links Thorn Grove right up to St. James” … it doesn’t appear to link anything?  It seems from what I can see in the video and Streetview (over a year ago mind) to get you to a couple of roads on the other side of the main road.  That’s… it?  Even if you did need to get to St. James from the primary school it looks like you’d have to backtrack on yourself some distance.

    Is this a very early green shoot, a “quick win” with the hope of then extending the infra along the main road?  Or is there an important local flow here?  Otherwise it’s nice but basically a very fancy and expensive pedestrian crossing serving a school.  Good, not nothing, but without more context you get nervous it’s the UK standard “Look!  Here’s 100 yards of cycle infra!  But why no cyclists?  Clearly people don’t want to cycle.”

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