Red light jumping statistics

I think rich_cb was alluding

I think rich_cb was alluding to the rate e.g. there are few cyclists compared to cars but they hit people at red lights far more often than motorists.  That then has a bearing on how we design our infra (or “should we crack down on cyclists at lights”?)  I think someone else (Awavey? apologies if I have the wrong poster, can’t recall) mentioned that there was some data on that.  That would be good to see.  I suspect the issue is that just a bald number (which is going to be small for cyclist / pedestrian collisions at lights compared to the motor vehicle one) won’t help much with the all important “why”?  (e.g. if it was 10 incidents / year Sam the singlespeed scorcher and scofflaw in Southhampton could be causing a fair fraction of those… or maybe there are two or three really badly designed junctions in the midlands etc.)

I personally do not RLJ
I personally do not RLJ beyond occasionally going beyond the stop line to put myself in clear view of the lead driver. My commute though is fairly suburban and I know the timings of every set of lights.

Whilst I don’t condone RLJ by other cyclists, or those that hop onto the pavement at traffic light controlled junctions, I do see a world of difference between sneaking through on a bicycle at walking pace, maybe to turn left or when there are clearly no pedestrians and hammering through an orange / red at 30+ mph in a tonne and a half of car or even worse in a multi tonne truck.

The dozens of KSI incidents for pedestrians as victims over the years in the small town where I live involve, to my knowledge, none caused by cyclist.

Adam Sutton wrote:

Adam Sutton wrote:

London and probably other cities is a different beast.

I wonder if this is due to sheer volume of vehicle traffic and the amount of risk-taking by London drivers in an attempt to make progress in a car. Traffic light grands prix are the norm, ASLs occupied by vehicles are the norm, and crossing multi-lane roads while traffic merges is common. Personally, I will RLJ if the ASL is occupied, there are no pedestrians crossing, and the way is clear, because it’s safer. I don’t really care how others perceive a behaviour that poses no risk to anyone else but increases my safety.

Now and then, I see other riders RLJ (or ignore a zebra) while a pedestrian is crossing. They might have broken the same rule as me (and the drivers of cars in the ASL) but I don’t see any equivalence, as they’ve endangered a more vulnerable road user.

Although of course that data
Although of course that data only shows the ones that were caught!
No, Lancashire Constabulary routinely ignores indisputable video evidence of red light offences by drivers, and they’re presumably not the only bad cops who do this. So the statistics are worthless, and just show the ones the police didn’t just ignore away

It’s not exactly comparable

It’s not exactly comparable but this data table shows number of FPNs for offences – I believe red light jumping would fall under “817-819 Neglect of traffic signs and directions and of pedestrian rights.” (93,400 FPNs in 2019).

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/929088/fixed-penalty-notices-police-powers-procedures-mar20-tables.ods 

Although of course that data only shows the ones that were caught!

My statistical nerves are

My statistical nerves are twitching at that ‘Most cyclists are angels’ section. Just because in 84% of observations the signals were observed, doesn’t mean that you can conclude that 84%, or even the majority, of cyclists don’t ride through red lights. That would only be true if every individual had to either always go through them or always stop. If a different 16% went through each red light, then by the time they reached the third set about half of them would have done it.

Some discussion here: https:/

Some discussion here: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2012/may/14/cycling-red-light-jumping-iam-survey