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old bike worth restoring ???

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  • July 14, 2019 at 8:20 pm #29892
    rickypjonesy

    Hi , I’m new to cycling and instead of going out and buying a new bike I thought id repair this bike that was in the garage of a property I bought and try it out before spending big money . I’ve cleaned it up, stuck some tires and some new cables on it but the back tire was rubbing on the frame. I stuck a bit of lead under the axel which gives it about 1mm clearance and id 40 miles on it without dying. Ill add some picture, if anyone can tell me what is wrong and if it’s worth me spending any money to fix it up properly that would be great.

    I believe it is a claud butler, looking online I think it’s about 1998

    Reynolds 653 frame 

    Campagnolo avanti groupset

    Mavic cxp 10 rims

     

    Any help would be much appreciated

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  • July 29, 2019 at 9:19 pm #946055
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    David9694

    You’ve presumably already

    You’ve presumably already found this ad, which lists some original components: https://picclick.co.uk/CLAUD-BUTLER-PROFESSIONAL-Road-Racing-Bike-Reynolds-653-222980993008.html

    I don’t doubt that your tyres say they are 20mm, but as was suggested earlier, some makers can be a bit creative in this area and as it’s a few mm that represents the difference between success and failure… anyway, read all about it here:

    https://www.sheldonbrown.com/tire-sizing.html

    Re reading this thread, it’s also sounding like you may be struggling a bit with getting the rear wheel in and out? I find on my bike with these dropouts that the plastic end of the QR skewer hits the circular housing where the derailleur bolt is. If you unscrew remove the skewer completely you should find that the wheel goes in without too much bother.

    If you’re  having seriously to pull the two back ends outward to get the wheel in, or otherwise wrestle with it, that could point To another issue.

    What I’m driving at and it’s a long shot because I think your wheels probably are the originals, is a possible mis-match in widths.  Measure from the inside edges the horizontal gap between your two (vertical) drop outs. You should get 130mm, which is the standard for road bikes. The distance between the outsides of the outermost bolts on the hub should be the same. 

    July 29, 2019 at 8:45 pm #946053
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    rickypjonesy

    Yes, gives me just enough

    Yes, gives me just enough clearance to stop it rubbing .

    July 29, 2019 at 1:46 pm #946051
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    David9694

    If you go back up to the

    If you go back up to the pictures of rear drop outs, the Campagnolo type have adjuster screws to stop the axle going further backwards and the wheel going out of alignment.  They’re less common these days.  You have to close the QR on this type really tight to prevent movement when you put a spurt on.

    You’ve clearly got the vertical or semi vertical type  – but  I’m still not sure I understand the purpose of the packing – did this give you more clearance behind the seat tube that you didn’t have before ?(that seems to be what you caption is saying.)

    July 27, 2019 at 5:49 pm #946043
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    rickypjonesy

    it has a vertical drop out .

    it has a vertical drop out . i have put a red where i packed the axel off . i could just get it into possition and tighten it but i dont fancy it dropping in and catching mid bike ride . What small screws are you talking about for ajusting the axel ? 

    July 27, 2019 at 5:38 pm #946049
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    rickypjonesy

    I Know it’s a Claud butler

    I Know it’s a Claud butler because when I found it had the decals on, I used a jet wash when trying to clean it up but it ripped them off. I’ve just found a picture from when I first found it. It looks like the tyre clearance isn’t too bad but I think that might be because the tyre is flat.

    July 27, 2019 at 5:35 pm #946047
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    ktache

    That nib is to stretch the

    That nib is to stretch the chain over when you have the rear wheel out.

    July 27, 2019 at 5:29 pm #946045
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    rickypjonesy

    I saw that little nib thing

    I saw that little nib thing on the inside and thought the cable must go round that enlightened . I will change it and shorten it immediately.​

    cheers

     

    July 27, 2019 at 8:12 am #946041
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    David9694

    That rear gear cable is way

    That rear gear cable is way too long and should be on the outside, not the inside of the frame. 

    Not sure I understand the axle packing you’ve done.

    Did you see anything else like it when you searched around on line? What makes you think it might be a Claud Butler?

    Your rear calliper looks to be almost at the end of its adjustment – what type is it? Looks like standard short reach in the pictures, so that just intensifies the mystery of why your rear wheel (is that a yellow Mavic rim label I can see?) is so close to the seat tube.  I can’t see any reason (e.g. touring, really small frame size) for it to have been designed to run say 26” wheels. You’ve presumably positioned the wheel at the very back of the dropout? Your tyre isn’t exactly a chunky monkey. A super narrow rim will throw the tyre further outwards.

    I wouldn’t recommend investing  in re-finishing this frame until you get to the bottom of this. I’d suggest touching-up for example the dinks on the cross bar for now.  This issue is sure to cause you problems in the longer run.  That straight fork suggests a close clearance build.  It’s not a track bike as such, but maybe it was intended for this type of use?

    Sometimes bikes get sold or discarded because someone has upgraded, sometimes it’s because they’ve lost interest, sometimes it’s because they went out and got a bike with a design issue like this one appears to have.  It’s really rare for frame and bike makers to get things wrong, so I hope you find there is an explanation.

     

     

     

    July 27, 2019 at 7:49 am #946039
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    mattsccm

    Unless he has some very wierd

    Unless he has some very wierd Dutch rims in, so called 28″ is also 700c and thus smaller than 27″ . Just look at the markings on so many tyres. 

    If the axle slot is a slot the wheel will move fore and aft. If it’s vertical then it won’t and there is a simple tyre clearance issue due to the era of the bike. It could have been built as a TT bike for example with 19mm tyres in mind. If its horizontal then it will move. After all the wheel must go in so must have some clearance as it moves back, even a touch, to locate. 

    July 26, 2019 at 11:06 pm #946037
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    matthewn5

    Does it have vertical

    Does it have vertical dropouts at the rear or the older, so-called ‘horizontal’ (actuall angled) dropouts?

    https://www.slowtwitch.com/articles/images/0/62550-largest_Sheldon_dropouts.jpg

    I’ve found the thickness of chrome on the ‘horizontal’ dropouts sometimes stops the axle sliding as far back as it needs to. A bit of light filing works wonders.

    You can also adjust the position of the axle with the small screws, once you’re sure that the axle actually fits properly into the slot.

    Reynolds 653 was considered to build up into a very stiff and racey frame back in the day. My Brian Rourke from 2000 is 653, it’s brilliant. The bike looks like a keeper to me, good find!

    Brifters were introduced in the early 1990s, so it looks to me to be entirely original.

    One thing: the loop of cable to the rear derailleur should go outside the seatstay, not inside!

    July 26, 2019 at 11:03 pm #946035
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    matthewn5

    Does it have vertical

    Does it have vertical dropouts at the rear or the older, so-called ‘horizontal’ (actuall angled) dropouts?

    https://www.slowtwitch.com/articles/images/0/62550-largest_Sheldon_dropouts.jpg

    I’ve found the thickness of chrome on the ‘horizontal’ dropouts sometimes stops the axle sliding as far back as it needs to. A bit of light filing works wonders.

    You can also adjust the position of the axle with the small screws, once you’re sure that the axle actually fits properly into the slot.

    Reynolds 653 was considered to build up into a very stiff and racey frame back in the day. My Brian Rourke from 2000 is 653, it’s brilliant. The bike looks like a keeper to me, good find!

    Brifters were introduced in the early 1990s, so it looks to me to be entirely original.

    July 15, 2019 at 10:42 pm #946033
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    Smartstu

    It’s a Reynolds 653 frame and
    It’s a Reynolds 653 frame and forks is it not? Nice lugs and lovely forks. Don’t know the maker – but certainly pretty decent?

    July 15, 2019 at 9:02 pm #946031
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    CygnusX1
    Dingaling wrote:
    Could this frame have been designed for 27″ wheels instead of 28″?

    I had that thought too, but the OP seems to think its a 1990s frame – if so, I doubt the frame was designed for anything other than 700c wheels.

    I did think maybe the chain is too short so is pulling the wheel in the dropout – I see someone else has suggested this as well.

    I’m old enough to remember 700cx18 (ISO 18-622) tyres, but these are a rare breed these days: https://forums.roadbikereview.com/wheels-tires/i-dont-see-any-700×18-clincher-tires-anymore-178626.html

    Although the 18 refers to tyre width, its also a pretty close measure of the height, so the narrower the tyre the more frame clearance you will get.

    July 15, 2019 at 8:27 pm #946029
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    Drinfinity

    Maybe, but the rims and

    Maybe, but the rims and brakes match, so unless both have been changed at some stage it needs a skinnier tyre, and a smooth road. 

    Looks like it has braze-ons  for downtube shifters? I’d restore it to those, and ditch the brifters that don’t go with the quill stem.

    Id also keep the original paint job – that fade is nice.

    July 15, 2019 at 8:02 pm #946027
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    Dingaling

    Could this frame have been

    Could this frame have been designed for 27″ wheels instead of 28″?

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