Discs + wet weather + gravel riding: struggling to swallow the kool-aid

IanEdward wrote:

IanEdward wrote:

I use the cheaper open cut out discs which are a few quid a pair.

Which ones? I’ve run various rotors including the Magura Storm SL which are more cut-out than rotor! Admittedly that was with different brakes (same bike though), but they didn’t do much for the noise.

Still tempted to try sintered pads as I remember them being relatively quiet in the wet on my mountainbike, but I tried sintered pads in some SRAM brakes recently and they were awful, squeeled in the wet AND in the dry!

Also worried about using sintered pads on a rotor that has already been bedded in with resin pads…

Ive had good success with these. https://www.wiggle.co.uk/lifeline-one-piece-stainless-disc-rotor-160mm/?lang=en&curr=GBP&dest=1&sku=5360597829&kpid=5360597829&utm_source=google&utm_term=&utm_campaign=Shopping+-+All+Products&utm_medium=base&utm_content=mckv|sGqMU42pR_dm|mcrid|295292317327|mkw||mmt||mrd|5360597829uk|mslid||&mkwid=sGqMU42pR_dm&pcrid=295292317327&prd=5360597829uk&pgrid=58852352866&ptaid=pla-521629078002&gclid=Cj0KCQjwwODlBRDuARIsAMy_28XW6mJioZtt5e7GV0G0zM1SMuv_ej8m_UGWmDdFI5OS4LEHp9x8gZYaAlP7EALw_wcB

It takes a few times braking with new pads to bed into rotors. I go through a set of pads in a week touring mountains. I put on a new set before a tour and it takes one mountain descent to bed in new pads

I use the cheaper open cut

I use the cheaper open cut out discs which are a few quid a pair.  These will almost stop squealing from shimano hydraulic brakes. 

I think its the combo of gas build up with mostly solid rotors and ceramic pistons.  I dont get it with any other combination of rotors or calipers.

  I have Hope 4 pots on my road bike and same rotors that I had with Shimano calipers.  This setup doesnt squeal.  Then I have on my shopper SS, Shimano calipers with cheap rotors and again they dont squeal.

A rider I did a tourwith had the latest black ‘ice tech’ on his expensive Dura Ace bike.  Squealed like mad dry or wet.

I don’t have a stack of

I don’t have a stack of studies to back any of the following, just my own admittedly anecdotal experience and a quantum of what I consider to be common sense.

I’ve ridden bikes with rim brakes on wheel sizes of 349-35 to 700C, alu rims, carbon rims and some alu rims that had a coating of tungsten carbide to improve braking performance.  Road and gravel riding, no MTB stuff.  When dry, rim brakes were ok and with a good set of calipers, levers and pads (Koolstop, Swissstop blue), I’d say that they were on par with my present disc brake setup.  In the rain performance degraded from more or less acceptable to downright scary (on the 349-35 alu rims) when riding at any speed over 18 mph.  None of them even came close to my present SRAM Force 1 hydraulic disc setup in terms of performance.  But, yeah, the discs squeal sometimes (the worst hollerers were koolstop salmon pads on the tungsten carbide coated alu rims though).  I guess it’s the price of better performance and tough cookies if I occasionally wake someone when I need to give priority to a car that pops up when I’m cycling to work at 5:30 in the rain.

I commute every day, don’t live in the sahara.  Those touted benefits of lighter and more aero rim brakes over disc brakes may hold true for professionals but those guys a) don’t brake nearly as much as amateur riders simply because they have much better technique from spending many hours in the saddle b) have very low body fat and are in prime condition c) accept extra risk in return for cash and d) have very high quality equipment and don’t need to pay for new Zipp or Meilenstein carbon rims that need replacing on a regular basis due to wear.

For the average plod like me who commutes 20 miles a day and rides on average 80 miles every weekend, I seriously doubt rim brakes would objectively be superior.

hawkinspeter wrote:

@BTBS – I just did a quick search on performance difference between rim and disc brakes and found GCN’s testing that concluded that rim brakes are indeed faster. (Summary here: https://www.honeybikes.com/blog/2018/3/25/disc-brake-vs-rim-brake-performance-on-road-bikes)

However, for me the most important difference between rims and discs is the wet weather performance. In traffic I really like my brakes to start slowing me down as soon as I activate them and I’ve found that rim brakes make me a lot more nervous in the wet (I have to ride slower in case cars pull out on me etc). Disc brakes feel a lot nicer to use (just a finger will do with complete control) but it’s definitely the reliability factor for me.

Given the choice, I’d go for hydraulic discs every time. (I’ve clearly fallen for the capitalist propaganda)

I’ve never not had enough braking in the wet, one adapts to the conditions no matter what you use, the pros have managed on carbon rims in the wet, they’ve managed with far flexier stirrups/calipers and worse pad compunds too. The restricting factor is the tyres and a persons ability to ride to the conditions, has been for a very long time, more so in the wet.

I’m probably not far off 200,000 miles over 35 years of being on the road, not a massive number compared to some but a decent amount, I started off with chrome steel rims as a teenager, had a few self induced offs along the way but none down to braking efficiency or lack of power and non of the motorist caused incidents would more powerful brakes have helped either.

I’ve said elsewhere that having more powerful brakes simply induces you to take greater risks, to go in deeper/faster on approach, you cut down thinking time should the worst occur. For me there’s too many downsides to discs for a tiny amount of improvement in braking in wet conditions when really you should be going at a speed that gives you the distance to stop no matter what brakes you have.

Similar to my first race bike, my first car had drum brakes all round, 12″ wheels with probably some horrible tyres, somehow never managed to crash it, nor run someone over. We’ve got to a point were the next step has taken us to a point that serves no real purpose for road bikes, even adventure/gravel bikes, has increased bulk, weight, increased ugliness IMO but also has the unintended consequence of reducing thinking time and coplacency particularly in emergencies because one becomes accustomed to the apparent power. Similar thing with motors when disc brakes and ABS became common place, stopping distance restricted by tyres and people still crashed at the same rate because they kept braking later and from higher speeds.

Each to their own but for road bikes in any guise discs are more hassle then they’re worth at any level from pootler to pro.

Yep, disc brakes on bicycles

Yep, disc brakes on bicycles are a nonsense

All this marketing bollocks

All this marketing bollocks just pisses me off!!!

My hobby horse with wooden wheels is fine thank you very much!!! I won’t fall for this capialist scam!!!! 😉

ps. Hope you get it fixed ok, squealing brakes are horrible, I’ve had 4 disc brake bikes over the years and one of them did squeal until I changed the pads and bedded it in properly for the first time. That was a TRP semi hydro jobbie, not a patch on my shimano ultegra hydraulic brakes (there really is a noticeable difference).

No idea about your mtb brakes, you might get more help on a specific mtb forum?

And as for maintanaince…once set up, they (full hydro disc brakes) should be less maintanaince than most rim brakes on the market. You change the pads every few thousand miles and thats literally it. No faffing trying to line up and toe in new pads…adjusting them when they wear down or get knocked. And lets not forget, rim brakes can also make a horrible squealing noise in the wet…I know this from uncomfortable experience 🙂