- This topic has 41 replies, 13 voices, and was last updated 8 years, 5 months ago by
Canyon48.
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December 31, 2017 at 3:55 pm #27966
deano802
Hi guys,
Been lurking for a year while learning the ropes on my alloy btwin 105. Had a great year improving on my weekly club rides and a decent year at work so want to “invest” and upgrade to a nice carbon machine. I’m 35, 5,10, 80kg and getting fitter every week. Due to my weight and my lack of skill descending I want discs and I can’t really see past the value of Canyon.
In looking at;
2018 Ultimate CF SL Disc 8.0, full new ultegra, dt swiss wheels 7.5kg £2600
2017 Ultimate CF SL Disc 9.0 Aero, older Ultegra, Mavic Cosmic Pro carbon aero wheels, carbon cockpit 7.9kg discounted to £2760
The 2018 I can get is cheaper, I can get in stage race blue which I love and reviews are that is pretty much faultless.
The 2017 has the carbon deep rims wheels and the aero cockpit which are worth the best part of £1000, they will probably make me go about zero mph faster but look very cool in my opinion, I can only get in stealth which is quite batman look but not first choice. I am also acutely aware of looking like a total knob if I get dropped while sporting deep rims. Really can’t decide and am stuck!
I did also try to support my lbs and he is trying to sell me the Bianchi Aria Disc aero bike which is very cool but half a kilo heavier and really cheap wheels, I also think you really need to want a bianchi to pay that sort of money for them.
Please help me with your experienced opinions!
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matthewn5 wrote:
matthewn5 wrote:Due to my weight and my lack of skill descending I want discsLearn to descend first, you’ll be a danger to yourself and other cyclists otherwise.
I’d suggest replacing your Tektro brakes immediately with 105 dual pivot brakes with cardridge pads. Then learn your limits properly, and not reply on harder braking!
Disc brakes can fade, terribly, see this recent story on Road.cc and especially the comments:
That’s why you need to learn your limits and not just imagine you can brake your way out of trouble.
Anyway, enjoy the Canyon, I loved mine!
I too highly recommend 105 brakes, they don’t cost too much and give a performance boost.
That article on the “brake failure”, no one has actually confirmed if the genesis she was riding had rim or disc brakes. Moreover, there is nothing to suggest the brakes (rim disc or otherwise) failed – merely, the rider allegedly shouted her brakes had failed and the media has picked up on it.
matthewn5
Quote:
Due to my weight and my lack of skill descending I want discsLearn to descend first, you’ll be a danger to yourself and other cyclists otherwise.
I’d suggest replacing your Tektro brakes immediately with 105 dual pivot brakes with cardridge pads. Then learn your limits properly, and not reply on harder braking!
Disc brakes can fade, terribly, see this recent story on Road.cc and especially the comments:
That’s why you need to learn your limits and not just imagine you can brake your way out of trouble.
Anyway, enjoy the Canyon, I loved mine!
alansmurphy
You monster!
You monster!Kadenz wrote:BehindTheBikesheds wrote:alansmurphy wrote:What BTBS said, except the bit about safety, discs stop quicker in the wet and modulate better… Oh and get a helmet!Braking in the wet is limited by tyre grip and the ability to think/react about when to brake (& having the time to do so) and having a decent set up. Discs shorten the thinking time as riders think they can brake later, discs aren’t safer and there’s no evidence to support that at all, they also go off when braking hard whilst descending, something the OP mentions he does and isn’t great at so could well be on the brakes more than some. Modulation, well that’s only ever a problem for those that don’t wish to learn how to brake properly, it’s no way to learn/get better!
Why a helmet, no-one, not even the pros need helmets, they’ve been proven in racing circles to bring about more deaths, more crashes and more injuries despite other improvements on course and general H&S/protocol improvements.
The OP admits to not being a great descender, over the last 2 decades the wearing of helmets have proven to be a massive problem for people on bikes who then ride beyond their own skill level and the ability of their bikes and come a cropper time and time and time again the helmet not making a jot of difference to the stats but an awful lot of helmet saved my life/saved me from serious injury stories. It certainly isn’t going to improve their riding skills nor their safety at any level, quite the opposite.
Why do people advocate helmets when all they do is endanger sporting cyclists even more than without!
I imagine people advocate wearing helmets because, contrary to your claims, they can protect your skull and hence brain in the event of an accident. Not all accidents – they may not help much if a lorry crushes your head – but they will in many circumstances.
It’s not just common sense (ask a friend to hit you on the head with a mallet, wearing a helmet and then not wearing one, and compare the two experiences).
There is now methodologically robust research that has demonstrated the protection that a helmet can provide compared with not wearing one.
But, of course, it’s a personal decision about whether to wear one or not.
I will be sticking to my own personal research, which is that if you are on a bike you can fall off, and if you fall off you can hit your head on tarmac if you are lucky or worse the curb, if you hit your head you can break your skull, have brain damage or die. So I will stick to wearing a plastic lid.
Kadenz
deano802 wrote:2018 Bianchi Ariahello deano,
I don’t know the answer to your question, but I imagine it will depend on whether you are looking for a race bike for speed above all else, or are looking for an endurance/sportive bike that provides speed with comfort over long distances.
BehindTheBikesheds wrote:alansmurphy wrote:What BTBS said, except the bit about safety, discs stop quicker in the wet and modulate better… Oh and get a helmet!Braking in the wet is limited by tyre grip and the ability to think/react about when to brake (& having the time to do so) and having a decent set up. Discs shorten the thinking time as riders think they can brake later, discs aren’t safer and there’s no evidence to support that at all, they also go off when braking hard whilst descending, something the OP mentions he does and isn’t great at so could well be on the brakes more than some. Modulation, well that’s only ever a problem for those that don’t wish to learn how to brake properly, it’s no way to learn/get better!
Why a helmet, no-one, not even the pros need helmets, they’ve been proven in racing circles to bring about more deaths, more crashes and more injuries despite other improvements on course and general H&S/protocol improvements.
The OP admits to not being a great descender, over the last 2 decades the wearing of helmets have proven to be a massive problem for people on bikes who then ride beyond their own skill level and the ability of their bikes and come a cropper time and time and time again the helmet not making a jot of difference to the stats but an awful lot of helmet saved my life/saved me from serious injury stories. It certainly isn’t going to improve their riding skills nor their safety at any level, quite the opposite.
Why do people advocate helmets when all they do is endanger sporting cyclists even more than without!
I imagine people advocate wearing helmets because, contrary to your claims, they can protect your skull and hence brain in the event of an accident. Not all accidents – they may not help much if a lorry crushes your head – but they will in many circumstances.
It’s not just common sense (ask a friend to hit you on the head with a mallet, wearing a helmet and then not wearing one, and compare the two experiences).
There is now methodologically robust research that has demonstrated the protection that a helmet can provide compared with not wearing one.
But, of course, it’s a personal decision about whether to wear one or not.
Anonymous
alansmurphy wrote:
alansmurphy wrote:I was mostly taking the piss but BTBS is so entrenched in his views I considered it worth a poke.So entrenched that I mentioned a disc bike as an alternative, okay whatever.
You mentioned the need for x, I countered that with statements of fact, you didn’t want to try to counter what I said despite your ‘advice’ to a relative newcomer to cycling being unhelpful and putting them in a more detrimental environment by suggesting they need a plastic hat.
arckuk wrote:wellsprop wrote:deano802 wrote:wellsprop wrote:deano802 wrote:I understand everyones comments on discs, a lot tend to be from skilled cyclists, but from my experience of getting back on the bike a year ago after not riding since at school I feel they are an advantage. I find if descending on the hoods its just dangerous as you cant get enough pressure on the levers if needed, and even in the drops I have left it a bit too late going into a bend and ended up going wide and on the wrong side of the road. Does anyone need digital tv or radio when analogue will do, or you can still listen to music in mono but I prefer stereo. Do I need them? No, Do I want them? YesYou’re right on all accounts!
Have what you want (disc brakes do feel way better IMO) – and I, previously, couldn’t stand the idea of a disc brake road bike; then I rode Ultgera disc brakes and found out how much nice they are than the Ultegra rim brakes I have!
I have gone and pulled the trigger on the 2017 aero this morning, hoping for delivery end of the week so I can get out on the weekend!
Out of interest what gearing have you got on the ultimate? Past year i’ve been riding 52/36 with a 11-32, I would need to change out to a med cage to put on the 32 cassette I have on the back, not sure it is worth it.
Nice one!
I have 52/36 with 11-28, fine on my Canyon as I use it for faster rides. I have no problem getting up the steep bit of Cheddar Gorge.
If you eventually upgrade to R8000, even the short cage rear mech can take a 30t (I think).
I’ve used an 11-32 on my 2017 Canyon Ultimate SLX (non-disc, 6800) for serious climbing days (Cingles de Mont Ventoux) without problem. I also swapped out the cranks from 52/36 to 50/34 at the same time. There were no problems with this, and I didn’t need to adjust the b-screw or add any chain links – it was even fine with a fully crossed chain (50 front – 32 back). All swapped back now, but I think they 52/36 with 11-32 would also work fine. I guess there could be minor differences between the design of the disc version, but I think the compatibility relates to how much lower the derailleur hanger is below the axle.
Enjoy the new bike!
Thanks, I think as you made the chainrings smaller and the cassette bigger at same time it was ok, I think 32 on back witht the 52/36 would be a bit of a push, would def need to extend chain, and would stretch the derailleur in big big or too loose in small small, for the sake of £50 I will prob just buy a long cage, if I bought the new R8000 it can even handle 34.
arckuk
wellsprop wrote:deano802 wrote:wellsprop wrote:deano802 wrote:I understand everyones comments on discs, a lot tend to be from skilled cyclists, but from my experience of getting back on the bike a year ago after not riding since at school I feel they are an advantage. I find if descending on the hoods its just dangerous as you cant get enough pressure on the levers if needed, and even in the drops I have left it a bit too late going into a bend and ended up going wide and on the wrong side of the road. Does anyone need digital tv or radio when analogue will do, or you can still listen to music in mono but I prefer stereo. Do I need them? No, Do I want them? YesYou’re right on all accounts!
Have what you want (disc brakes do feel way better IMO) – and I, previously, couldn’t stand the idea of a disc brake road bike; then I rode Ultgera disc brakes and found out how much nice they are than the Ultegra rim brakes I have!
I have gone and pulled the trigger on the 2017 aero this morning, hoping for delivery end of the week so I can get out on the weekend!
Out of interest what gearing have you got on the ultimate? Past year i’ve been riding 52/36 with a 11-32, I would need to change out to a med cage to put on the 32 cassette I have on the back, not sure it is worth it.
Nice one!
I have 52/36 with 11-28, fine on my Canyon as I use it for faster rides. I have no problem getting up the steep bit of Cheddar Gorge.
If you eventually upgrade to R8000, even the short cage rear mech can take a 30t (I think).
I’ve used an 11-32 on my 2017 Canyon Ultimate SLX (non-disc, 6800) for serious climbing days (Cingles de Mont Ventoux) without problem. I also swapped out the cranks from 52/36 to 50/34 at the same time. There were no problems with this, and I didn’t need to adjust the b-screw or add any chain links – it was even fine with a fully crossed chain (50 front – 32 back). All swapped back now, but I think they 52/36 with 11-32 would also work fine. I guess there could be minor differences between the design of the disc version, but I think the compatibility relates to how much lower the derailleur hanger is below the axle.
Enjoy the new bike!
Most should get a 36/28 over
Most should get a 36/28 over most lumps and bumps – anything North of 20% may be tricky if you’ve already climbed and used your gears up 🙂deano802 wrote:wellsprop wrote:deano802 wrote:I understand everyones comments on discs, a lot tend to be from skilled cyclists, but from my experience of getting back on the bike a year ago after not riding since at school I feel they are an advantage. I find if descending on the hoods its just dangerous as you cant get enough pressure on the levers if needed, and even in the drops I have left it a bit too late going into a bend and ended up going wide and on the wrong side of the road. Does anyone need digital tv or radio when analogue will do, or you can still listen to music in mono but I prefer stereo. Do I need them? No, Do I want them? YesYou’re right on all accounts!
Have what you want (disc brakes do feel way better IMO) – and I, previously, couldn’t stand the idea of a disc brake road bike; then I rode Ultgera disc brakes and found out how much nice they are than the Ultegra rim brakes I have!
I have gone and pulled the trigger on the 2017 aero this morning, hoping for delivery end of the week so I can get out on the weekend!
Out of interest what gearing have you got on the ultimate? Past year i’ve been riding 52/36 with a 11-32, I would need to change out to a med cage to put on the 32 cassette I have on the back, not sure it is worth it.
Nice one!
I have 52/36 with 11-28, fine on my Canyon as I use it for faster rides. I have no problem getting up the steep bit of Cheddar Gorge.
If you eventually upgrade to R8000, even the short cage rear mech can take a 30t (I think).
Ogi wrote:There is a premium on disc brake bikes these days. If keen on it, couple of suggestions from my side:Racier bikes:
1) Super Six Evo disc Ultegra model – Evans had a deal on it.
2) Focus Izalco Max disc/Cayo disc 2017 models – Swift Cycles.
3) Spesh Tarmac Comp/Elite disc – Evans.
4) Cervelo R3 Disc.
5) Felt FR3/FR2 disc – Wiggle.
Endurance (lots of choices):
1) Cannondale Synapse.
2) Spesh Roubaix.
3) BMC Roadmachine.
4) Trek Domane.
5) Cervelo C3 Disc.
6) Wilier GTR SL Endurance
If it was my money, I’d go for Super Six Evo, Focus Izalco Max or Felt.
O
Thanks, I’ve gone for the canyon now but did have a look at the supersix, lookswise just doesn’t really do it for me. Another one to look at was the Giant TCR which would have been my second choice, great frame and giants own carbon rims etc plus you do get the backup of the lbs.
wellsprop wrote:deano802 wrote:I understand everyones comments on discs, a lot tend to be from skilled cyclists, but from my experience of getting back on the bike a year ago after not riding since at school I feel they are an advantage. I find if descending on the hoods its just dangerous as you cant get enough pressure on the levers if needed, and even in the drops I have left it a bit too late going into a bend and ended up going wide and on the wrong side of the road. Does anyone need digital tv or radio when analogue will do, or you can still listen to music in mono but I prefer stereo. Do I need them? No, Do I want them? YesYou’re right on all accounts!
Have what you want (disc brakes do feel way better IMO) – and I, previously, couldn’t stand the idea of a disc brake road bike; then I rode Ultgera disc brakes and found out how much nice they are than the Ultegra rim brakes I have!
I have gone and pulled the trigger on the 2017 aero this morning, hoping for delivery end of the week so I can get out on the weekend!
Out of interest what gearing have you got on the ultimate? Past year i’ve been riding 52/36 with a 11-32, I would need to change out to a med cage to put on the 32 cassette I have on the back, not sure it is worth it.
Ogi
There is a premium on disc
There is a premium on disc brake bikes these days. If keen on it, couple of suggestions from my side:
Racier bikes:
1) Super Six Evo disc Ultegra model – Evans had a deal on it.
2) Focus Izalco Max disc/Cayo disc 2017 models – Swift Cycles.
3) Spesh Tarmac Comp/Elite disc – Evans.
4) Cervelo R3 Disc.
5) Felt FR3/FR2 disc – Wiggle.
Endurance (lots of choices):
1) Cannondale Synapse.
2) Spesh Roubaix.
3) BMC Roadmachine.
4) Trek Domane.
5) Cervelo C3 Disc.
6) Wilier GTR SL Endurance
If it was my money, I’d go for Super Six Evo, Focus Izalco Max or Felt.
O
deano802 wrote:I understand everyones comments on discs, a lot tend to be from skilled cyclists, but from my experience of getting back on the bike a year ago after not riding since at school I feel they are an advantage. I find if descending on the hoods its just dangerous as you cant get enough pressure on the levers if needed, and even in the drops I have left it a bit too late going into a bend and ended up going wide and on the wrong side of the road. Does anyone need digital tv or radio when analogue will do, or you can still listen to music in mono but I prefer stereo. Do I need them? No, Do I want them? YesYou’re right on all accounts!
Have what you want (disc brakes do feel way better IMO) – and I, previously, couldn’t stand the idea of a disc brake road bike; then I rode Ultgera disc brakes and found out how much nice they are than the Ultegra rim brakes I have!
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