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Cycling GPS/navigation units – Am I missing something?

  • This topic has 12 replies, 10 voices, and was last updated 9 years ago by gonedownhill.
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  • June 4, 2017 at 1:36 pm #27185
    Canyon48

    Good morning all,

    Maybe it’s just because I’m waiting for my girlfriend to get ready to go out (she said she’d be ready an hour ago, but here I am still waiting), but I’ve been thinking about the lack of cheap, simple cycling GPS/navigation units…

    A bit of context first; my phone cost me £90 yet it has

    • GPS
    • Wifi
    • Bluetooth
    • 4G
    • colour screen
    • touch screen
    • water resistance
    • several hour battery life
    • applications
    • cellular connectivity

    My Garmin Edge 25 (brilliant little computer – serves all my needs) cost me £100 and has a monochromatic screen with 4 buttons, GPS and a battery life of a few hours.

    So the engineer (and cyclist) in me is wondering why one of the larger companies (Google or Samsung etc) hasn’t come out with a basic, Google maps enabled, GPS unit.

    I assume the reason there is such a large cost difference is due to the size of production runs of phones and cycle GPS units. Phones will be in the millions (I’d guess) and cycle GPS in the hundreds of thousands (again a guess) – therefore the phones will be cheaper.

    If Google or Samsung were to market their own cycle GPS at around £70, aimed at the more casual cyclist and those who just wanted to track their rides (all the leisure cyclist who won’t buy a GPS due to the cost), I imagine they could make a lot of sales.

    Remove the wifi, Bluetooth and cellular networking capabilities from a mobile phone (to reduce cost, complexcity and power consumption), create a stripped down version of an Android OS that could run google maps, strava, other cycle related apps. and stick a quarter turn mount on the back.

    Market it at cyclists who want navigation and tracking ability but don’t need power data etc, a larger company could potentially produce a large volume of these, at a lower cost than Garmin and basically undercut Garmin at the lower end of the market, therefore, monopolising the supply of GPS units leisure audience of the cycling market.

    Ok, I haven’t done any market research. My other half works in a busy bike shop and a lot of customer come in looking for a cycle GPS that can navigate, she directs them to the Garmin Edge Touring, which is £200 RRP, way above what they are willing to spend. My other half owns a Garmin Edge Touring and the navigation on it is woeful compared to Google maps.

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  • June 6, 2017 at 2:45 pm #894369
    0
    gonedownhill
    kevvjj wrote:
    risoto wrote:
    I was appaled by how primitive and low tech the Garmin flagship Edge 1000 was. Sold it after 5 months – navigation utterly useless (not to say ridiculous), super low resolution screen, no proper maps (they use free maps)  etc. They have put in a super slow processor,  the cheapest screen they could find, smallest amount of memory and they charge a fortune. The ride data are good, so are the menues, but navigation! From the company that leads/invented car navigation, incredible:).

    Got the Lezyne super gps, turns out that arrow based turn-by-turn navigation works really well. It still can’t guide me back to my route (which the Garmin can’t either) but it works better than the Garmin which broke down more than it stayed awake.

    I also got a very cheap waterproof Moto G3 phone. Without SIM card – i use OSM maps=free. Works very well. Screen set to night mode, only turns on when I need to make a turn. Lasts all day. Back to the Lezyne, if you change your mind, grab your smartphone, open the Lezyne app, point to a new destination on the Google based map, hit go and directions are transferred in an instant to the Lezyne. Brilliant – has never failed me. The Lezyne battery lasts for ages. Charge it about every 2-3 weeks.

    The world is still waiting though, for a cycle gps that has smartphone tech at smartphone prices. So far the producers have gotten away with their over-priced products because their audience/target group will pay what it takes for anything to make them go faster – real or imagined. Used by all the pros, but then again, they don’t need navigation do they – just follow the car!!!

    Did you bother to read the manual? I have the 810 and have never had an issue with navigation, either following a turn-by-turn course or having the unit take me home via a rout of its own. You shouldn’t really need the device to guide you back to the course – my 810 tells me within a hundred metres or so when I am off course – pretty simple to then stop and go back to the turn I missed. The screen resolution is all you need for navigation – I certainly (with my old eyes) have no issues reading it. I use open street maps for free and have had no issues with them.

    When you say ‘OSM maps=free’ do you mean Ordinance Survey Maps or open street maps? If the former I am keen to know where you get OSM maps for your Lezyne free of cost. Can you post a link?

     

     

    I think but am not sure that OSM they are referring to is this app: http://osmand.net/

     

    I use the same thing on a moto G3 with a cheap stem mount for my phone and load .gpx routes created in strava into it.

    June 6, 2017 at 7:54 am #894367
    0
    esnifador

    kevvjj wrote:

    kevvjj wrote:

    You shouldn’t really need the device to guide you back to the course – my 810 tells me within a hundred metres or so when I am off course – pretty simple to then stop and go back to the turn I missed.

     

    I think he’s probably more referring to times when you want it to automatically adjust rather than just tell you to retrace your steps until you’re back on the route.

    Sometimes I deliberately diverge, often because I’ve mistakenly included some off-road track in my route, or because I know an alternative route in one section is more convenient or just nicer than the official route. In those circumstances my Garmin is very prone to ‘Route calculation error’ which is especially annoying if I’m in unfamiliar territory. That’s when the phone comes out to work out where I need to go, as using my Garmin just to browse the map is an exercise in futility.

    June 6, 2017 at 6:15 am #894365
    0
    Anonymous
    risoto wrote:
    I was appaled by how primitive and low tech the Garmin flagship Edge 1000 was. Sold it after 5 months – navigation utterly useless (not to say ridiculous), super low resolution screen, no proper maps (they use free maps)  etc. They have put in a super slow processor,  the cheapest screen they could find, smallest amount of memory and they charge a fortune. The ride data are good, so are the menues, but navigation! From the company that leads/invented car navigation, incredible:).

    Got the Lezyne super gps, turns out that arrow based turn-by-turn navigation works really well. It still can’t guide me back to my route (which the Garmin can’t either) but it works better than the Garmin which broke down more than it stayed awake.

    I also got a very cheap waterproof Moto G3 phone. Without SIM card – i use OSM maps=free. Works very well. Screen set to night mode, only turns on when I need to make a turn. Lasts all day. Back to the Lezyne, if you change your mind, grab your smartphone, open the Lezyne app, point to a new destination on the Google based map, hit go and directions are transferred in an instant to the Lezyne. Brilliant – has never failed me. The Lezyne battery lasts for ages. Charge it about every 2-3 weeks.

    The world is still waiting though, for a cycle gps that has smartphone tech at smartphone prices. So far the producers have gotten away with their over-priced products because their audience/target group will pay what it takes for anything to make them go faster – real or imagined. Used by all the pros, but then again, they don’t need navigation do they – just follow the car!!!

    Did you bother to read the manual? I have the 810 and have never had an issue with navigation, either following a turn-by-turn course or having the unit take me home via a rout of its own. You shouldn’t really need the device to guide you back to the course – my 810 tells me within a hundred metres or so when I am off course – pretty simple to then stop and go back to the turn I missed. The screen resolution is all you need for navigation – I certainly (with my old eyes) have no issues reading it. I use open street maps for free and have had no issues with them.

    When you say ‘OSM maps=free’ do you mean Ordinance Survey Maps or open street maps? If the former I am keen to know where you get OSM maps for your Lezyne free of cost. Can you post a link?

     

    June 5, 2017 at 11:14 pm #894363
    0
    part_robot

    Garmin Edge’s are terrible

    Garmin Edge’s are terrible but have the functionality I need. iPhone 7’s are brilliant (they have excellent battery life and the touch screens even work when it’s pissing it down) but don’t have the apps I need. So I continue to use the 810 in misery and wait in the hope someone will make a proper iPhone (or Android… happy to use my S5 if need be) app that does offline navigation and proper training metrics well… all the while wondering if I should have built said app myself already.

    June 5, 2017 at 10:13 pm #894361
    0
    stub

    A bike mounted gps is not

    A bike mounted gps is not likely to (ever) have the features of a smartphone at the cost of a smartphone. A Galaxy S8 or an iPhone is the best part of £700/800 without a contract, and the bike gps market is so small in comparison that there simply isn’t the return on investment there to entice the big boys to do it. In fact, both Apple and Samsung already make a ‘bike gps’ – the Apple Watch and the Gear S3. A watch is a more attractive device for these companies to make as it is attractive to more users, from the casual user who will use it as a smart watch to all levels of fitness enthusiast, runners, cyclists, gym bunnies, etc. (I work for Samsung, but I have a Garmin vivoactive HR and I think its great).

    So Garmin and the like are only able to do what they currently offer (or maybe slightly better) but there isn’t the volume there to do any better. I’d agree navigation isn’t fantastic on the Edge 1000, but it can follow a course really well (though getting the coruse onto the device should be much much easier).

    I have the varia radar (and lights), and you won’t get that on your smartphone. The radar is a really fantastic device that I can’t recommend highly enough. Oh, and the Di2 display is pretty neat. It’s all the little bits (barometric altimeter, smartphone alerts, livetracking, course navigation) all on one device that I appreciate, and it means the phone stays in my pocket. Ideally I’d like the phone to be smaller than it is.

    Plus the connect portal collates all your data from a fitness point of view. I play golf and the Approach golf trackers are really good, the course maps, swing analysis is all leagues above anything else, plus it’s all in the same place as my cycling activities and day to day weight, sleep, etc. That is basically what you get. Yes, the devices cost more and are not seen to be as advanced hardware wise but they are specifically focused on golf, cycling, running, etc. Even the form factor of the bike computer being a bike computer and having a first party bike specific mounting system is something you won’t get from Apple or Samsung because it means you’re only targeting a fraction of the population. So you pay more for it because the volume isn’t there, but in theory it is designed more for your needs rather than trying to appeal to everyone.

    June 5, 2017 at 9:44 pm #894359
    0
    risoto

    I was appaled by how

    I was appaled by how primitive and low tech the Garmin flagship Edge 1000 was. Sold it after 5 months – navigation utterly useless (not to say ridiculous), super low resolution screen, no proper maps (they use free maps)  etc. They have put in a super slow processor,  the cheapest screen they could find, smallest amount of memory and they charge a fortune. The ride data are good, so are the menues, but navigation! From the company that leads/invented car navigation, incredible:).

    Got the Lezyne super gps, turns out that arrow based turn-by-turn navigation works really well. It still can’t guide me back to my route (which the Garmin can’t either) but it works better than the Garmin which broke down more than it stayed awake.

    I also got a very cheap waterproof Moto G3 phone. Without SIM card – i use OSM maps=free. Works very well. Screen set to night mode, only turns on when I need to make a turn. Lasts all day. Back to the Lezyne, if you change your mind, grab your smartphone, open the Lezyne app, point to a new destination on the Google based map, hit go and directions are transferred in an instant to the Lezyne. Brilliant – has never failed me. The Lezyne battery lasts for ages. Charge it about every 2-3 weeks.

    The world is still waiting though, for a cycle gps that has smartphone tech at smartphone prices. So far the producers have gotten away with their over-priced products because their audience/target group will pay what it takes for anything to make them go faster – real or imagined. Used by all the pros, but then again, they don’t need navigation do they – just follow the car!!!

    June 5, 2017 at 9:27 am #894357
    0
    keirik
    dottigirl wrote:
     

    Last night, i navigated using my phone tucked under a bra strap, 

     

    must have been a challenge seeing the screen :- D

     

    June 5, 2017 at 9:09 am #894355
    0
    dottigirl

    I always understood that the

    I always understood that the cost of aphone was subsidised by the contract. So it appears you get a lot more for your money.

    I do wonder why cycling GPS is so primitive though.

    Last night, i navigated using my phone tucked under a bra strap, instead of the 800 on my stem which had kittens every time I attempted to enter a destination.

    June 5, 2017 at 6:11 am #894353
    0
    Anonymous

    Battery life.Not dependant on

    Battery life.Not dependant on phone signal for some functions. Size. Waterproofness. I could go on. You can get a Mio Cyclo100 for under 40 quid at the moment and you can get the best Garmin ever, the Edge 200 for £60.

    June 4, 2017 at 4:37 pm #894351
    0
    kev-s

    Ive got a £15 (brand new)

    Ive got a £15 (brand new) vodafone smart 7 phone that has

     

    GPS
    Wifi
    Bluetooth
    3G
    colour screen
    touch screen
    several hour battery life
    applications
    cellular connectivity

    Removable battery

     

    I use it for recording rides and navigation on my mtb

    If i ever come off and it gets damaged im only £15 out of pocket

     

    Ive attached it to a £5 handlebar watch mount by screwing  3 self stappers through the battery cover into the mount

     

    Works a treat!!!!!

     

    I do have a Garmin 800 which i use on the road bike

    June 4, 2017 at 3:14 pm #894349
    0
    Canyon48
    keirik wrote:
    not many people wander around with a £90 phone these days.

     

    my phone is about £500 if bought outright, which makes my £200 wahoo elemnt bolt seem quite cheap

    Fair point. Just realised my Samsung Galaxy Ace is only worth about £50 new now haha!

     

    June 4, 2017 at 2:02 pm #894347
    0
    keirik

    not many people wander around

    not many people wander around with a £90 phone these days.

     

    my phone is about £500 if bought outright, which makes my £200 wahoo elemnt bolt seem quite cheap

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