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Student Internships A Scam?

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  • December 24, 2016 at 11:53 am #26601
    Griff500

    Once upon a time, when I were a lad, people who graduated from University, left, got a job, got paid.

    A few years back, as an MD of an engineering company, I received a letter and CV from a star graduate (economics), with everything an employer would wish for, including a record of charitable work and volunteering in an Indian orphanage. He was so desperate to get a job, he wanted to come and work for me for 3 months for nothing just to get experience. I agreed, but paid him minimum wage as a matter of principle, after all, I would be getting some benefit too. At the end of 3 months I got him a full time role working for a friend in another company.

    Fast forward a few years and my son, about to graduate with an MA in Public International Law is in a similar position. The only jobs he appears to be qualified for are unpaid internships, with no guarantee of a future job. This is equally true of the public and private sector. EU departments for example have unpaid internships of up to 12 months, despite their supposed stance on human rights. On comparing notes with friends and colleagues I find that this route to potential employment is the norm in many professions (notable exceptions being engineering, medicine and teaching).

    It makes my blood boil that 36 years after my own entry to the job market, we appear to have gone back to the middle ages in terms of expecting young people to work and provide useful output for nothing.  I accept that new graduates still have a long way to go in terms of actually learning how to “do a job”, and may need a fair bit of supervision. Nevertheless, having employed many straight from Uni over the years (mainly engineering, but also law, finance, and humanities) I have found that within a couple of weeks they are a net benefit rather than a net drain. How can it be legal in a Europe with legal minimum wage, to expect people to work for nothing? Do we not owe our young people more, after all those years of self funded study?

    Christmas Eve rant over!

     

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  • December 30, 2016 at 12:45 pm #883987
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    HowardR

    And…….. Another

    And…….. Another interesting page from the good folk @ the ONS:

    http://visual.ons.gov.uk/more-jobs-being-paid-close-to-the-minimum-wage/

    December 30, 2016 at 11:51 am #883985
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    HowardR

    This ‘interactive map’ from

    This ‘interactive map’ from The Office of National Statistics  showiing the percentage of jobs in an area that pay less than the Living Wage (the minimum wage + a smidgeon) gives a pretty good picture of the employment world we live in:

    http://www.neighbourhood.statistics.gov.uk/HTMLDocs/dvc289/lwmap/index.html

    In full awareness of my risking making the mole hills of anecdote into the mountain ranges of data….. From my personal experience of SME’s & the people who own them….. Whilst there are some business that do run on tight margins & genuinely can’t afford to pay more,  the owner often taking home less than their employees , there are also a significant number of businesses where the owner will whinge that they really couldn’t afford to pay their staff a penny more without risking the collapse of the enterprise – whilst living in the lap of very significant luxury themselves.

    And! – Whilst on the big ring of ranting…..The phrase ‘the left behinds’ really pisses me of. It’s a term that suggests a small minority. As the ONS map in the link above shows in some areas that ‘small minority’ is  pretty dammed significant… Grrrr!

     

    December 29, 2016 at 4:52 pm #883983
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    didds

    As per HowardR’s wrt a job’s

    As per HowardR’s wrt a job’s baseline…  a friend relayed a converstaion he had had with another business  in the same town where they live.  the other business owner had explained that his office based workers minim requirement was a degree.  Frined queried this pointing out the “skill levels” needed were easily covered by those wioth A-levels at most.  The other chap totally agreed but co9untered with “with so many young people now with degrees I may as well get a brighter one”. Or words to that effect.  So basic ally a 30K-ish debt in order to just get a 18K-ish pa job, with little prospect fo rising above that at any time in that role.

    I’d wonder if it meant he just got a lot of staff churn but potentially not if trhere are no other jobs to move to anyway?

     

    didds

    December 28, 2016 at 10:14 am #883981
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    HowardR

    Tottaly agree too…..

    Tottaly agree too…..

    I’d also add……If it’s bad for those with degrees, the inflation in qualificational requirements has made things nigh on impossible for someone who doesn’t/can’t/won’t go down the University route  (with it’s associated debt). When a ‘kid’ with a degree has all the problems that they do it’s even worse for those without. 

    It probably doesn’t help that once a role (or job as we used to call them) is occupied by someone with a degree that then level of qualification seems to become a minimum requirment for anyone who’s subsequently recuited to that posistion.

     

     

    December 26, 2016 at 6:27 pm #883979
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    monty dog

    Successive Governments have

    Successive Governments have permitted the Higher Education sector to generate more courses, imposed tuition fees without considering matching demand with supply. Half of graduates don’t end up making use of their degrees, straddled with ~£40k debt and yet command no earning premium over someone without a degree. At the same time, we have some sectors where there’s a chronic shortage of science and engineering graduates of 20,000/year just because of people retiring, never mind our Brexit aspirations.  Too many people doing law degrees when you consider the number of pupilages available which pretty well involve being unpaid for 3 years before they pass the bar exam. A lot comes down to appalling career advise which is non-existant in schools.

    December 26, 2016 at 5:50 pm #883977
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    mike the bike

     

     

    I was reading only the other day about the surplus of graduates in certain professions and how hard it will be for all of them to find work.  One area was law, which seems to affect your son, and another was veterinary surgery, where many good graduates are struggling to secure employment.

    It’s a fast-moving world we find ourselves in, I never thought I’d see the day when lawyers and vet’s are out of work.

    December 25, 2016 at 2:20 am #883975
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    dottigirl

    Totally agree.

    Totally agree.

    There’s several industries which exploit people’s willingness to get experience. I write, and the pressure to offer freebies is massive. Although I have done this in the past, I think freebies devalue the market, and encourage the ‘get something for nothing’ mindset. There’s several organised moves now against organisations which expect people to work for free. 

    There was a post on here a few weeks ago from someone asking for blog contributors. I can’t find it now, but I did ask about compensation, financial or otherwise. Plus, it was a bit cheeky as the site would directly compete against road.cc’s site, with its paid staff.

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