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Power Big ring/small ring

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  • February 12, 2015 at 8:06 pm #23255
    pablo

    I got a new trainer at Christmas last night i did a session that has confused me a bit.

    So normal training with power would 4×8 minute at 235watts in the BIG ring middle of the block. At the end of each interval i’d really be struggling with my heart rate around 175bpm which is top end.

    Last night i did a session 4×8 minutes at 235watts in the SMALL ring middle of block. At the end i was suffering but not to bad and my heart rate was peaking about 167bpm.

    Why did this session feel so much easier with the only difference being in the smaller ring? I thought it’d pretty much feel the same because the work done is the same it feels like the power meter on the trainer is lying?

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  • February 13, 2015 at 1:18 pm #831973
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    crikey

    It happened to me twice, once
    It happened to me twice, once on a gentle descent where I discovered a new max heart rate trying to stay on a wheel over the top of the preceding climb in a race in Mallorca, and once on the flat at the end of a long line of riders in a big kermesse race in Belgium. Way, way out of my depth on both occasions.

    Contrastingly, my mate placed well in a UK race after snapping his front derailleur cable, so 39-12…

    February 13, 2015 at 12:42 pm #831971
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    fukawitribe

    Jimmy Ray Will

    Jimmy Ray Will wrote:
    fukawitribe wrote:
    crikey wrote:
    The scary part comes when you are spinning out a 53-11 gear combination while trying to hold the wheel in front of you…

    Scary for me around here as I would i’d be doing nearly 80km/h…

    Na… probably about 40-45mph. Its different spinning like a loon on a down hill, another when its on the flat… it quickly tires the legs I can assure you..

    An amazing feeling though, when you are trying to click to the bigger gear and there aren’t any… when you are pushing the pedals as hard as you can just to stay in there and its on a flat road. Epic. The trick of course is to move up!

    I spin out somewhere between 125 and 130 (i’m no track cyclist, that’s for sure) so that’ll be between 75 and 80 km/h on 622-25mm using 53×11. So that’s between about 46 and 50 mph. Downhill ? Yeah, that’d be do-able with a reasonable bit of distance. On the flat ? Nah.. not me. Not for quite a lot of people i’d reckon, for any non-trivial amount of time – you must have legs and lungs like a monster 🙂

    February 13, 2015 at 9:21 am #831969
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    Jimmy Ray Will

    Regarding the topic of the
    Regarding the topic of the thread however… its all been said. Push your cardio vascular system and spin gears, rather than push hard on the pedals.

    What turbo are you using, and where are you measuring power? If you are measuring power off the turbo, you may find that the machine actually reads differently when you are using a bigger gear than a smaller gear.

    The problem (its not really a problem) with power monitoring is that its not necessarily perfect. A machine monitor force applied to an area of the drivetrain, measures cadence and makes a calculation and interprets that into a number. As long as that number is consistent to itself, you have a wonderful training tool, however the number is not necessarily absolute fact all the time.

    February 13, 2015 at 9:14 am #831967
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    Jimmy Ray Will

    fukawitribe wrote:crikey

    fukawitribe wrote:
    crikey wrote:
    The scary part comes when you are spinning out a 53-11 gear combination while trying to hold the wheel in front of you…

    Scary for me around here as I would i’d be doing nearly 80km/h…

    Na… probably about 40-45mph. Its different spinning like a loon on a down hill, another when its on the flat… it quickly tires the legs I can assure you..

    An amazing feeling though, when you are trying to click to the bigger gear and there aren’t any… when you are pushing the pedals as hard as you can just to stay in there and its on a flat road. Epic. The trick of course is to move up!

    February 12, 2015 at 11:53 pm #831965
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    fukawitribe

    crikey wrote:The scary part

    crikey wrote:
    The scary part comes when you are spinning out a 53-11 gear combination while trying to hold the wheel in front of you…

    Scary for me around here as I would i’d be doing nearly 80km/h…

    February 12, 2015 at 9:47 pm #831963
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    glynr36

    crikey wrote:Quote:I was told

    crikey wrote:
    I was told a tip which helped me no end, always ride outdoors on the small ring as it keeps the cadence up and cadence is the key.

    This is sensible advice, but it only goes so far. The reason racing bikes have big rings and small sprockets is because they can be ridden fast, and there is no point being able to spin a small gear at a high cadence if that sees you spinning merrily away out of the back of the bunch. Cadence is one part of riding; the other part is power, and you need to work on both to be a fast rider.

    The scary part comes when you are spinning out a 53-11 gear combination while trying to hold the wheel in front of you…

    You mean cadence and strength. Power is a function of cadence and force applied to the pedals.
    To go faster you need to push harder or spin faster. It’s ideal to have both, so you can take some load off the muscular system by spinning and placing load onto the CV system, and vice versa. you should train both by over/under gearing on training sessions for intervals.

    February 12, 2015 at 9:18 pm #831961
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    ianrobo

    pablo wrote:Good points I

    pablo wrote:
    Good points I will check my cadence i think from memory i was above average probably 95ish. On the road i average 89rpm every ride pretty consistently but on the trainer in the big ring i struggle to maintain that. Not 100% sure why i’m probably trying to push too big a gear i will see what i ride in at the weekend and then on the trainer.
    Having more numbers to look at can be a little obsessive!

    thats the point ha ha

    I now can spin 100 plus on small ring up hills but not he flat I get into the big ring and spin at 85 or so, it is all up to personal preference. I am not a racer but the point made about that is of course totally valid !

    February 12, 2015 at 8:59 pm #831959
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    pablo

    Good points I will check my
    Good points I will check my cadence i think from memory i was above average probably 95ish. On the road i average 89rpm every ride pretty consistently but on the trainer in the big ring i struggle to maintain that. Not 100% sure why i’m probably trying to push too big a gear i will see what i ride in at the weekend and then on the trainer.
    Having more numbers to look at can be a little obsessive!

    February 12, 2015 at 8:47 pm #831957
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    crikey

    Quote:I was told a tip which

    I was told a tip which helped me no end, always ride outdoors on the small ring as it keeps the cadence up and cadence is the key.

    This is sensible advice, but it only goes so far. The reason racing bikes have big rings and small sprockets is because they can be ridden fast, and there is no point being able to spin a small gear at a high cadence if that sees you spinning merrily away out of the back of the bunch. Cadence is one part of riding; the other part is power, and you need to work on both to be a fast rider.

    The scary part comes when you are spinning out a 53-11 gear combination while trying to hold the wheel in front of you…

    February 12, 2015 at 8:35 pm #831955
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    ianrobo

    yep agree with that as you
    yep agree with that as you train more and more you move from little ring to big ring and I can now spin at 95 int he middle of it for 10 mins, something impossible a month ago.

    I was told a tip which helped me no end, always ride outdoors on the small ring as it keeps the cadence up and cadence is the key.

    February 12, 2015 at 8:26 pm #831953
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    glynr36

    It’s where the work comes
    It’s where the work comes from.
    In your big ring it’s from more force and lower cadence, on your inner ring effort power was achived by a lesser force but higher cadence.
    Remember power is the rate of doing work, not just work.

    If you do some testing you’ll find you generate better power and fatigue less for a given cadence, there is no ‘rule’ for this, it is induvidual, but you can train to spin more etc

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