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Road Bike/ Retul fit newbie question

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  • October 25, 2014 at 12:06 pm #22635
    cpn81

    Hi,

    Hoping for a bit of help…

    I bought my first road bike in April of this year. This in the one, http://www.evanscycles.com/products/specialized/secteur-x3-2014-road-bike-ec053051

    I have steadily been increasing my rides since I bought it and cycle about 13 miles 2-3 times per week I noticed a niggle shortly in to starting above my right knee. I raised the seat a couple times which improved it but did not get rid of it completely. In the past week I decided to try and get it sorted once and for all. I booked a physio appointment and booked in a for a retul bike fit.

    My question is on the back of the bike fit. My seat has been moved forward and a few other adjustments made. I am needing to get a 140mm stem for the bike and the person doing the fit said I could actually do with a 150mm stem! The bike I have has a sloped top tube seemingly bikes with out this would be slightly longer so I would not need as long a stem.

    I am 6 foot, and have 31/32 inside leg…fairly average. I guess what I’m asking is, does this seem right? I’m surprised the bike is basically slightly to small for me

    It’s a 56cm frame.

    Any help would be appreciated.

    Thanks

    Chris

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  • October 30, 2014 at 9:39 am #819007
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    edd23

    The measurements just look
    The measurements just look ‘odd’ to my untrained eye!

    150mm stem will definitely have an adverse impact on handling.

    Velocity 44 in Stirling might be worth a try? Specialized dealer and good bike fitting facilities…

    October 30, 2014 at 8:13 am #819005
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    cpn81

    Thanks
    I could drive through
    Thanks

    I could drive through to Glasgow so it’s a definite possibility

    Does anyone have any experience with either of these guys?

    http://www.visualbikefit.com/services/

    http://www.hardie-bikes.com/info/personalised_bike_fitting.php

    October 29, 2014 at 11:18 pm #819003
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    notfastenough

    Sorry, I think he’s wrong*.
    Sorry, I think he’s wrong*. He’s justifying the long stem on the basis of your long torso / short legs, yet he’s also recommending 175mm cranks. There’s a reason that 56cm bikes nearly always fit 172.5mm cranks as standard, and you don’t sound to be of sufficiently odd proportions to preclude that. The reach sounds way too long.

    I am curious to see you on a bike- if he’s right you must have arms like a chimpanzee!

    *I have no qualifications and haven’t even seen you on a bike, so I shouldn’t be trusted either!

    People on here rave about Billy Bilsland Cycles – that might be Glasgow though?

    My fitter is based at the Manchester velodrome – perhaps see if the Commonwealth Games venue has something similar?

    October 29, 2014 at 6:09 pm #819001
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    cpn81

    I am based in Edinburgh, any
    I am based in Edinburgh, any recommendations for a good fitter would be great. Don’ mind a little travel

    It certainly feels wrong as the fitter told me to look out for a 150mm stem!

    I’ve crudely copied the measurements given to me by the fitter in a pdf.

    COMPONENTS
    STEM SPACER STACK CRANK LENGTH PEDALS SADDLE BARS SHOES
    -6 ° x 140 mm 5 mm 175 mm Shimano,SPD-SL Speciailzed,Body Geometry Speciailzed,Secteur Shimano,RO64
    Notes:
    Saddle Height: 772 mm
    BB to center of saddle profile
    Handlebar Reach: 566 mm
    tip of saddle horiz to bar top
    Handlebar Drop: -106 mm
    cen of saddle profile to bar top grip, — denotes bar
    below saddle
    Saddle Setback: -50 mm
    BB horiz to front tip of saddle grip, — denotes saddle
    behind BB
    Grip Reach: 699 mm
    tip of saddle horiz to front end of grip
    Grip Drop: -59 mm
    cen of saddle to front end of grip, — denotes grip lower
    Saddle Angle: -4 °
    angle of saddle to horizon grip, — denotes nose down
    Bar Reach: 34 mm
    center of bar to back end of grip
    Eff. Seat Tube Angle: 76 °
    BB to center of saddle profile
    Grip Width: 415 mm
    grip center to center
    Grip Angle: 35 °
    angle to horizon + denotes front end up
    BB to Grip Reach: 648 mm
    BB to front end of grip
    Frame Stack: 585 mm
    Frame Reach: 385 mm
    BB to center of headtube top
    Handlebar Stack: 627 mm
    Handlebar Reach: 516 mm
    BB to center of bar

    October 29, 2014 at 4:33 pm #818999
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    Graham Simmons

    This is a very common problem
    This is a very common problem we see as a bike fitter who often has people come to us as a second opinion – lots of fitters will try and set up a rider in an aggressive, aerodynamically efficient position without taking into account the flexibility and core strength of the rider. This can lead to some fairly serious injuries down the road which is of course no good.

    Generally I would only recommend a fitter who offers a money-back guarantee.

    October 29, 2014 at 4:08 pm #818997
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    notfastenough

    So if the 2014 Secteur in a
    So if the 2014 Secteur in a 56cm has a reach of 387mm and stack of 590mm, that would be an effective reach of 537mm (or thereabouts).

    My 56cm Trek Madone in H2 fit also has a reach of 387mm. I have a 120mm stem, which is right for me. I’m a touch shorter than 6″ last time I checked (more than 5″11″ though), with trouser size of 31-32 leg. So we are similar size, and I have been fitted to my bike, and can confirm it’s right for me.

    If the fitter is correct in terms of your required dimensions, then I’d say you need a sportier frame in a bigger size. That way, the frame would be longer (thus allowing you to reduce the stem length), and the lower stack height would be compensated for by the increase in frame size.

    On second thoughts, this doesn’t add up; if you subtract a reasonable stem length from 537mm (let’s say a 110mm stem), you’re left trying to find a frame with a reach of 427mm. Trek’s H1 geometry (longer and racier than their H2 average-joe sizing) only gives 407mm even in a 62cm model! I’m not having it, that on a frame intended for guys who are in the region of 6″4″, you’d still need a 130mm stem!

    Definitely think a 2nd opinion is in order. Whereabouts are you, people may be able to suggest somewhere trusted?

    October 29, 2014 at 3:24 pm #818995
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    bigmel

    The problem with any stem
    The problem with any stem over 130mm is that the steering becomes funny. It basically indicates that bike frame is too long in length for you.
    Moving the saddle forward indicates you have short thighs – so I suspect a long body proportion.
    The main thing is that now you have your contact points/dimensions from the bike fit, you can find a more suitable frame.

    My custom fitted bike is built around a 120mm stem – allowing for me to change 10mm each way depending on final fiddling around.

    October 29, 2014 at 8:58 am #818993
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    Graham Simmons

    I think that’s a good idea.
    I think that’s a good idea. I’d offer you a discount but we’re on the south coast! I would expect to see a stem length of more like 100mm given your inside leg/height ratio.

    October 29, 2014 at 7:54 am #818991
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    cpn81

    Yeah, my seat was moved
    Yeah, my seat was moved forward. I was advised I actually needed a 150mm stem but 140mm was all we could find.

    I’ll definitely take a look at the link and book, thanks.

    I’m now thinking of going to get a second opinion elsewhere.

    October 29, 2014 at 12:18 am #818989
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    intheshed

    A bike with a straight top
    A bike with a straight top tube won’t be automatically longer and the shape of a bike can be misleading. To compare lengths of frames, you need to look at frame reach. To compare heights of frames you need to look at frame stack. Fortunately most manufacturers are now quoting these figures, making comparisons easier.

    For example, a 2014 56cm Secteur has a quoted reach of 387mm whereas a 2014 56cm Allez is 395mm. So even though it has a similar top tube shape, the Allez is inherently 8mm longer. Additionally, the Secteur is taller by design – the stack of a 56cm is 590mm versus the 574mm of the Allez. Essentially the Allez is longer and lower than the Secteur in any given frame size.

    A 140mm stem sounds very long by modern standards, and a pretty drastic solution to getting you fitted to the bike, especially as your seat has also been moved forward?

    If you’ve the time and inclination, Phil Burt’s ‘Bike Fit’ book is a helpful read and there is also good guidance at http://www.bikedynamics.co.uk.

    October 27, 2014 at 1:37 pm #818987
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    cpn81

    Thanks for the comments so
    Thanks for the comments so far

    I was back at the fitters yesterday and got the 140 stem fitted. I seemingly need it due to the size of my torso in comparison to my legs. I guess my torso needs a 58 but legs need a 56.

    To be honest I don’t know much about the fitters experience other than he is pretty busy with fits.

    October 27, 2014 at 9:13 am #818985
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    Graham Simmons

    As somebody who works with a
    As somebody who works with a fitter myself, I’d be extremely suspicious of somebody who has suggested you go to such a long stem. Did you ask about the guy’s experience? You can become a Retul fitter by doing a 3-day course that cannot be failed.

    Riding a stem like that on a frame that (by the numbers) appears to be well sized for you could easily lead to asymmetries developing, and further down the road possible ITB and ligament damage.

    October 26, 2014 at 2:45 pm #818983
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    Cardboard Box

    As therevokid said, it’s all
    As therevokid said, it’s all to do with body proportions and given the inside leg dims you’ve given I’d say your torso is longer than average and your legs shorter than average hence the need for a longer stem to stretch you out a little. It doesn’t necessarily follow that you need to go up a frame size as the 56cm may be more suited to your inside leg measurement and we haven’t even discussed arm lengths yet! đŸ˜‰

    October 26, 2014 at 9:03 am #818981
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    therevokid

    a lot depends on your body
    a lot depends on your body proportions. i ride a sloping 54cm with 55.6cm top tube
    which has a 90mm stem. i also have a flat top tube 54cm frame that has a 53m top tube
    and a 100mm stem. at 5’9″ with 32″ inseam this gives me the same fit on both bikes.

    October 25, 2014 at 3:28 pm #818979
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    cpn81

    Thanks…I think a 56cm frame
    Thanks…I think a 56cm frame bike with a straight top tube would be slightly longer and the 140mm stem would them sort it. I just found it strange requiring that length of stem.

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