Six more police forces looking to run close pass operation - including in Leeds

ktache wrote:

Ohh, I tried to figure out how many constituted a spate.

Now the Leinster Leader gives 5 burglaries in 3 days.

And the BBC news gives 75 for the number of murders in June 2015.

chambers dictionary describes it as 'A flood. A sudden rush or increased quantity'. I'd suggest the way to figure out how many constitute a spate is to use statistical process control, such that anything more than 3 standard deviations from the mean could reasonably be called a spate and warrant more than normal attention. 

Whether it's a spate or not in the case of KSIs is irrelevant though. What matters is reducing the absolute number of people KSIed.

ktache wrote:

ConcordeCX, I wish you well if it's a nice place to cycle, some of us don't get that, the best I could say about here is that sometimes there are nice bits.

Thanks for the stats.  Just thinking that 27 child KSIs in 5 years might be too many.  And there were only 30 KSIs for children in cars.  Or the 72 cyclist KSIs in 2015, which appears to be on an upward trend.  2012 seemed like a bad year for everyone.  But what I noticed is that the 72 cyclist KSIs compares to the 161 car occupants, which would give a suggested modal share of about 30%, which I'm kind of guessing it's not.  It seems to me that the figures show increasing safety for car occupents and increasing dangers for cyclists.  Maybe something needs to be done.  Perhaps, try something new.  They would be shocked by the number of drivers they get for smart phone use.  Is it our height that let's us see that texting hand?

The single cyclist killed in 2015 is a low number.  But there were 13 over the past 5 years, as the trend for the KSI is up that could seem as more of a statistical anomoly.  Poor rider.  2013 was very lucky year.  

I don't want to at all suggest to you that your roads are nasty, and if it that nice I am properly jealous.  It's just that, as there may have been a large increase in car driving and huge increases in car occupant safety, there appears to be more risk to cyclists.

I know I could probably find out by delving into the further report links, but what do you think counts as "other"?

they're not my roads. I live and cycle mostly in London. But Dorset's a nice place to cycle. It has, I believe, precisely one mile of motorway. 

I picked on your Dorset comment because you made a highly emotive claim without any reference to the facts, but said nothing about Derbyshire, who explained with accompanying numbers why they are not prioritising this type of initiative. Maybe Dorset have similar reasons, but their PR people aren't as good. They should spend their money on initiatives that will have the highest impact regardless of transport mode.

Really if you're going to make a comparison to a spate of shootings you should make an effort to find out if the comparison is fair and show the rest of us your reasoning, otherwise you're just using the Donald Trump method of argument, consisting of random insults off the top of your head (probably hiding under the toupee) with no link to reality. 

ConcordeCX wrote:

ktache wrote:

ConcordeCX, I wish you well if it's a nice place to cycle, some of us don't get that, the best I could say about here is that sometimes there are nice bits.

Thanks for the stats.  Just thinking that 27 child KSIs in 5 years might be too many.  And there were only 30 KSIs for children in cars.  Or the 72 cyclist KSIs in 2015, which appears to be on an upward trend.  2012 seemed like a bad year for everyone.  But what I noticed is that the 72 cyclist KSIs compares to the 161 car occupants, which would give a suggested modal share of about 30%, which I'm kind of guessing it's not.  It seems to me that the figures show increasing safety for car occupents and increasing dangers for cyclists.  Maybe something needs to be done.  Perhaps, try something new.  They would be shocked by the number of drivers they get for smart phone use.  Is it our height that let's us see that texting hand?

The single cyclist killed in 2015 is a low number.  But there were 13 over the past 5 years, as the trend for the KSI is up that could seem as more of a statistical anomoly.  Poor rider.  2013 was very lucky year.  

I don't want to at all suggest to you that your roads are nasty, and if it that nice I am properly jealous.  It's just that, as there may have been a large increase in car driving and huge increases in car occupant safety, there appears to be more risk to cyclists.

I know I could probably find out by delving into the further report links, but what do you think counts as "other"?

they're not my roads. I live and cycle mostly in London. But Dorset's a nice place to cycle. It has, I believe, precisely one mile of motorway. 

I picked on your Dorset comment because you made a highly emotive claim without any reference to the facts, but said nothing about Derbyshire, who explained with accompanying numbers why they are not prioritising this type of initiative. Maybe Dorset have similar reasons, but their PR people aren't as good. They should spend their money on initiatives that will have the highest impact regardless of transport mode.

Really if you're going to make a comparison to a spate of shootings you should make an effort to find out if the comparison is fair and show the rest of us your reasoning, otherwise you're just using the Donald Trump method of argument, consisting of random insults off the top of your head (probably hiding under the toupee) with no link to reality. 

I think the statistical comparison is missing the point a bit. A better ground for comparison with a spate of shootings is the logic of victim-blaming evident in Dorset's reply. The point is that the police are choosing to place the onus on the victim rather than seeking to address the cause. I agree its a rather emotive comparison. A better comparison might be if the police sought to tackle drink driving by putting resoruces into advising everyone else how to spot drunk drivers and avoid them, rather than seeking to challenge the behaviour itself.

As for Dorset; I live in Dorset, and whilst there are many 'nice' roads for weekend cycling, the ones you need to use for commuting are anything but nice. We don't actually have any motorways (which is of course  irrelevant for cycling because you can't cycle on motorways) but we do have  Bournemouth, which was again listed as one of the most dangrous places for cycling outside London last year (http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/14804703.Bournemouth_named_fourth_...).

ChairRDRF wrote:

congokid - go through your local CyclingUK or cycle campaign group. Try the Council who will have links with police. If no go there, through Police and Crime Commissioner. There may be Safer Transport Teams or Traffic Police who can be contacte directly. Write to them through cycle campaign/CyclingUK group.

Thanks for that. There is no safer transport team but I've emailed the head of the local safer neighbourhood team. I'll also write to my MP (who isn't particularly pro-cycling) as well as the main local cycling club to find out whether they've followed it up yet (I can't imagine they wouldn't be at least interested).

djfleming22 wrote:

 

What about the rest of Scotland ..we must be waiting till we are independant from the rest of the UK so that Nicola Sturgeon can say she thought of it first ....

i wouldn't hold my breath on that one. The SNP have had plenty of opportunities to score 'firsts' in regards to road safety for vulnerable road users. Presumed liability was dismissed, 20mph limits are deferred to councils, they came up with a poxy ' give me this much space' campaign which was generally ignored, there's talk of allowing electric vehicles to use bus lanes and they still reckon the 10% target is achievable by 20/20. While much has been done for leisure cycling little to nothing is being done for urban cycling. 

Meanwhile I've given up reporting instances to K division as they look at me blankly and mumble something like 'what do you want us to do about it?' While I'm wanting to retort that they catch the scroat beat him to pulp and tip his car into the Clyde!

ktache wrote:

Dorset, I don't understand, how are you giving motorist free lights?

Oh, no, I get it, you mean the vunerable, don't you?  You don't need to educate them on their vulnerability.

You see what WMP have done is try and stop the killing by having a go at those doing the killing.

If there were a spate of shootings in your county, you'd be handing out bullet resistant vests to the public rather then arresting the criminals and taking away their guns.

 

well put 

ktache wrote:

If there were a spate of shootings in your county, you'd be handing out bullet resistant vests to the public rather then arresting the criminals and taking away their guns.

The NSW equivalent would be forcing people by law to wear bullet proof vests and fining us for not wearing one while outdoors...

ktache wrote:

Dorset, I don't understand, how are you giving motorist free lights?

Oh, no, I get it, you mean the vunerable, don't you?  You don't need to educate them on their vulnerability.

You see what WMP have done is try and stop the killing by having a go at those doing the killing.

If there were a spate of shootings in your county, you'd be handing out bullet resistant vests to the public rather then arresting the criminals and taking away their guns.

Derbyshire's police gave a good explanation of why they're not adopting this initiative. Perhaps they just have a better PR department than Dorset, because Dorset's figures, as I see them anyway, don't really merit the comparison with a 'spate of shootings'.

http://www.travelindependent.org.uk/area_55.html

Dorset's a nice place to cycle.