Video: Cyclist appeals for help to track down hit and run driver

beezus fufoon wrote:

only go up the inside if you're looking for death

You never use bus (or cycle) lanes and always wait at the back of the general traffic queue?

Duncann wrote:

beezus fufoon wrote:

only go up the inside if you're looking for death

You never use bus (or cycle) lanes and always wait at the back of the general traffic queue?

I overtake on the right, as instructed by the highway code - my bike and shoulders are just less than half a metre across, why on earth would I wait in traffic?

beezus fufoon wrote:

Duncann wrote:

beezus fufoon wrote:

only go up the inside if you're looking for death

You never use bus (or cycle) lanes and always wait at the back of the general traffic queue?

I overtake on the right, as instructed by the highway code - my bike and shoulders are just less than half a metre across, why on earth would I wait in traffic?

Overtaking is passing a slower moving car in free flowing traffic it does NOT apply when one lane is stationary, or even slow moving due to congestion. Otherwise there would be no point in right turn filter lanes as all other traffic would be obliged to wait while the cars in the non-moving right turn lane were waiting for a gap in the oncoming traffic.

I am sick of this ‘undertaking argument’ being run out as a means to stop cyclists filtering on the left  (as the highway code expressly permits) and this case is even more clear because the cyclist is using a bus lane.

WTF is the point of bus lanes if the bus is not allowed to pass all the queuing traffic in the non bus lane?

wycombewheeler wrote:

beezus fufoon wrote:

Duncann wrote:

beezus fufoon wrote:

only go up the inside if you're looking for death

You never use bus (or cycle) lanes and always wait at the back of the general traffic queue?

I overtake on the right, as instructed by the highway code - my bike and shoulders are just less than half a metre across, why on earth would I wait in traffic?

Overtaking is passing a slower moving car in free flowing traffic it does NOT apply when one lane is stationary, or even slow moving due to congestion.

There is advice on overtaking in the Highway Code, but I can't see a definition of 'overtaking' (might be missing it). RoSPA offers this...

Quote:

There are three types of overtaking manoeuvre:

- overtaking a moving vehicle on the offside

- overtaking a stationary or parked vehicle, a rider or an object on the offside

- undertaking on the nearside. 

http://www.rospa.com/rospaweb/docs/advice-services/road-safety/drivers/o...

The Highway Code does say this however

Quote:

Rule 67

You should

...

* take care when overtaking (see Rules 162 to 169).

Quote:

Rule 167

DO NOT overtake where you might come into conflict with other road users. For example

...

* approaching or at a road junction on either side of the road

It explicitly says you may overtake on the left if the traffic is moving slower than you, but the advice about taking care should surely still apply. It's a pity that we have to think on behalf of others, but it can also prove prudent.

wycombewheeler wrote:

beezus fufoon wrote:

Duncann wrote:

beezus fufoon wrote:

only go up the inside if you're looking for death

You never use bus (or cycle) lanes and always wait at the back of the general traffic queue?

I overtake on the right, as instructed by the highway code - my bike and shoulders are just less than half a metre across, why on earth would I wait in traffic?

Overtaking is passing a slower moving car in free flowing traffic it does NOT apply when one lane is stationary, or even slow moving due to congestion. Otherwise there would be no point in right turn filter lanes as all other traffic would be obliged to wait while the cars in the non-moving right turn lane were waiting for a gap in the oncoming traffic.

I am sick of this ‘undertaking argument’ being run out as a means to stop cyclists filtering on the left  (as the highway code expressly permits) and this case is even more clear because the cyclist is using a bus lane.

WTF is the point of bus lanes if the bus is not allowed to pass all the queuing traffic in the non bus lane?

sure, you're allowed to go up the blind side, just as you're allowed free treatment on the NHS, or maybe even a nice coffin for your family to send you off in - whatever makes you happy

beezus fufoon wrote:

wycombewheeler wrote:

beezus fufoon wrote:

Duncann wrote:

beezus fufoon wrote:

only go up the inside if you're looking for death

You never use bus (or cycle) lanes and always wait at the back of the general traffic queue?

I overtake on the right, as instructed by the highway code - my bike and shoulders are just less than half a metre across, why on earth would I wait in traffic?

Overtaking is passing a slower moving car in free flowing traffic it does NOT apply when one lane is stationary, or even slow moving due to congestion. Otherwise there would be no point in right turn filter lanes as all other traffic would be obliged to wait while the cars in the non-moving right turn lane were waiting for a gap in the oncoming traffic.

I am sick of this ‘undertaking argument’ being run out as a means to stop cyclists filtering on the left  (as the highway code expressly permits) and this case is even more clear because the cyclist is using a bus lane.

WTF is the point of bus lanes if the bus is not allowed to pass all the queuing traffic in the non bus lane?

sure, you're allowed to go up the blind side, just as you're allowed free treatment on the NHS, or maybe even a nice coffin for your family to send you off in - whatever makes you happy

Going up the outside is no guarantee of safety, the closest I came to dying on the roads was passing slow moving traffic on the right  as you advocate, (on a motorbike) when a van signalled someone to come out of a left side road to turn right across my path. Obviously the driver pulling out was not looking for bikes to the right of the traffic queue so knowing the van had stopped for him was focussed entirely on vehicles coming from his left.

Had there been a collision there could well have been questions asked about my use of the hatched area for passing and it would be far from clear cut whose fault the incident was.

Unlike this case where the cyclist has the whole bus lane to himself and the driver has not even considered anybody using it, even though they only have one direction to check for approaching vehicles, they could just have easily have missed a taxi.

The lesson for cyclists from this incident is not – “pass on the right”, it is “take care when passing slow moving traffic on either side”. But mostly it should be a lesson to drivers to look before crossing a lane which has priority.

wycombewheeler wrote:

Going up the outside is no guarantee of safety, the closest I came to dying on the roads was passing slow moving traffic on the right  as you advocate, (on a motorbike) when a van signalled someone to come out of a left side road to turn right across my path. Obviously the driver pulling out was not looking for bikes to the right of the traffic queue so knowing the van had stopped for him was focussed entirely on vehicles coming from his left.

Had there been a collision there could well have been questions asked about my use of the hatched area for passing and it would be far from clear cut whose fault the incident was.

Unlike this case where the cyclist has the whole bus lane to himself and the driver has not even considered anybody using it, even though they only have one direction to check for approaching vehicles, they could just have easily have missed a taxi.

The lesson for cyclists from this incident is not – “pass on the right”, it is “take care when passing slow moving traffic on either side”. But mostly it should be a lesson to drivers to look before crossing a lane which has priority.

of course it is no guarantee of safety and there is often a lot of "what ifs" - but just to point out - the bus lane is in fact blocked by two buses 50 metres ahead and there isn't much of a gap there - personally, I would be looking to move to the outside, where there appears to be no oncoming traffic...

just curious what you would do when you got to the bus/car blockage 5 seconds up the road - are you advocating stopping and waiting patiently in the bus lane rather than weaving out and round both lanes - and whichever option you choose, why wouldn't you be preparing to stop or looking to get outside the traffic at this point already?

beezus fufoon wrote:

Duncann wrote:

beezus fufoon wrote:

only go up the inside if you're looking for death

You never use bus (or cycle) lanes and always wait at the back of the general traffic queue?

I overtake on the right, as instructed by the highway code - my bike and shoulders are just less than half a metre across, why on earth would I wait in traffic?

Fair point about not waiting, I'll do that myself sometimes, although usually not if there's a free lane to the left (and many individual urban lanes aren't wide enough for vehicle+cyclist). Also depends on oncoming traffic.

Going on the outside obviously makes you more visible to oncoming traffic wanting to turn across (as in this article's case). Conversely, it doesn't help with traffic emerging from the left - indeed it may make it riskier as you'll often be tucker closer to the stationary/slow-moving vehicles on your left and the emerging driver may be less likely to be prompted to look properly without the prompt of an additional lane. More importantly if the traffic you're passing is stationary, they may be more concerned with looking in the opposite direction for the traffic that is oncoming to you. Drivers going your way may also turn right without checking properly, especially if they're in areas unused to two-wheelers overtaking them.

In summary, use observation and intelligence to assess whether passing on the left or right is better (esp. as the HC allows undertaking of slow-moving traffic on your right (Rule 268)).

Duncann wrote:

beezus fufoon wrote:

Duncann wrote:

beezus fufoon wrote:

only go up the inside if you're looking for death

You never use bus (or cycle) lanes and always wait at the back of the general traffic queue?

I overtake on the right, as instructed by the highway code - my bike and shoulders are just less than half a metre across, why on earth would I wait in traffic?

Fair point about not waiting, I'll do that myself sometimes, although usually not if there's a free lane to the left (and many individual urban lanes aren't wide enough for vehicle+cyclist). Also depends on oncoming traffic.

Going on the outside obviously makes you more visible to oncoming traffic wanting to turn across (as in this article's case). Conversely, it doesn't help with traffic emerging from the left - indeed it may make it riskier as you'll often be tucker closer to the stationary/slow-moving vehicles on your left and the emerging driver may be less likely to be prompted to look properly without the prompt of an additional lane. More importantly if the traffic you're passing is stationary, they may be more concerned with looking in the opposite direction for the traffic that is oncoming to you. Drivers going your way may also turn right without checking properly, especially if they're in areas unused to two-wheelers overtaking them.

In summary, use observation and intelligence to assess whether passing on the left or right is better (esp. as the HC allows undertaking of slow-moving traffic on your right (Rule 268)).

Generally I find that the right hand mirror is far more widely used than the left (and actually useful because it gives a better field of vision) - drivers are far more used to checking their right side when pulling out as it is the accepted side for passing, and hardly ever check their left hand mirror when turning left for the same reason - they simply do not expect anyone to be coming past on that side.

Equally, the same thing does happen with cars giving way to traffic emerging from the left, but in my experience, not only are you more visible from that position, but you are also able to observe more and take action. The angles are also different, and it seems to me that you are less likely to hit a car square on from that position - I just find it a lot safer, especially if there are more two-wheelers around, and it is often not difficult to keep pace with motorbikes under such conditions, which to me is preferable to trying to weave in and out between two lanes of traffic. YMMV.

beezus fufoon wrote:

[drivers are far more used to checking their right side when pulling out as it is the accepted side for passing, and hardly ever check their left hand mirror when turning left for the same reason - they simply do not expect anyone to be coming past on that side.

Equally, the same thing does happen with cars giving way to traffic emerging from the left, but in my experience, not only are you more visible from that position, but you are also able to observe more and take action. The angles are also different, and it seems to me that you are less likely to hit a car square on from that position.

I think you're talking about a different scenario: one where drivers are already in the left lane and about to turn left. Neither of those is what was in the video or what I was talking about.

Duncann wrote:

beezus fufoon wrote:

[drivers are far more used to checking their right side when pulling out as it is the accepted side for passing, and hardly ever check their left hand mirror when turning left for the same reason - they simply do not expect anyone to be coming past on that side.

Equally, the same thing does happen with cars giving way to traffic emerging from the left, but in my experience, not only are you more visible from that position, but you are also able to observe more and take action. The angles are also different, and it seems to me that you are less likely to hit a car square on from that position.

I think you're talking about a different scenario: one where drivers are already in the left lane and about to turn left. Neither of those is what was in the video or what I was talking about.

you said, "Drivers going your way may also turn right without checking properly..." - which is a fair point, and which can happen on either the left or right side - for me personally, I would rather be on the right for the reasons I mentioned.

They shouldn't be in the left hand lane if it is a bus lane, and so you're more likely to be square on rather than at an angle to them where you could potentially swerve or at least take a glancing blow.

Regarding traffic emerging from the left rather the right (the opposite of the video above), seeing the backs of their heads as they inch out and then cutting in behind and around them is far easier because of the angles involved and the slower speed at which they approach the possibility of oncoming traffic.

In both cases, being on the right rather than inside seems preferable to me.

shay cycles wrote:

The fault, as in the action that cuased the collision, does lie entirely with the driver of the car.

The primary fault (turning across the lane without due care) is absolutely the drivers however, as people have pointed out, the rider is going fast for the situation - especially as it looks like he does not have visibility of the turning traffic (the right turning car is obscured in the initial part of the video). That said, personally I would favour the ability to walk without pain over being technically in the right, which is why I appreciated the advice 35-40 years ago when starting on motorcycles to treat all other road users as potential idiots. People can behave dangerously and apparently randomly entirely without malice - I find it wise to prepare for that in situations like this, where I know there is the chance of a turning vehicle which I cannot see.. similarly in e.g. heavily residential areas where there are numbers of parked cars and potentially lots of kids - I don't HAVE to take it easy (technically) but I consider it in the interests of myself and others to do so.  Not stopping afterwards is absolutely unforgiveable though.

DrJDog wrote:

I went over the bonnet of a car in a similar circumstance, but in my case it was a bike lane, not a bus lane. The police were very very keen to prosecute for careless driving, but I declined since there was no harm (only a few small cuts and scrapes). They gave the driver a bollocking at the scene.

Slow clap for you.

Some of the comments on The Daily Fail site in relation to this video are pure, unadultered, posted by utter cavemen gold.