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Professor claims Mini Holland scheme could be terrorist target

Also says that it is ‘probable’ that unexploded bombs lie underground in the area

The latest objection to Kingston’s £33m Mini Holland scheme is that it could prove a target for terrorists. The claim comes in a report penned by retired medical professor David Allison, a member of an environmental group comprising residents of New Malden and Raynes Park who object to the project.

Thames Water’s pressurised water supply is contained in four major pipes running beneath the proposed cycle link between New Malden and Raynes Park. The Surrey Comet reports how under the heading “security of major pipeline” Allison writes:

“Open public access to this area must increase the risk of damage to these pipes from a terrorist attack by disaffected groups or individuals. Even more ominously, the pipes would be more vulnerable to criminal interference with a view to chemical or biological pollution.”

“Silent majority” back Enfield’s Mini Holland as Chris Boardman visits borough

He also argues that with the area having been a major target during the Second World War, it is “probable” that unexploded bombs lie underground. More prosaic concerns revolve around the destruction of habitats for rabbits, bats, grass snakes, hedgehogs and badgers.

Allison defended his report, saying: “It is ridiculous to call part of the report absurd in the world we are living in. We are now more than 1,000 people who have raised concerns about the track and the effect it will have on the environment. We live here and I suspect that many of the cycling campaign do not.”

Anti-cycling petitioners cite unexploded WWII bombs as risk if bike path goes ahead

Wimbledon Conservative MP Stephen Hammond met the group to hear their concerns last month and said: “I am not picking up on the terrorism point, but it would be perfectly possible to dictate where the pipe runs if the track was opened up. At the moment resident concerns have not been addressed.”

Kingston and Surbiton Conservative MP James Berry said: “I would have thought the risk of terrorism in Kingston is highly unlikely, particularly on a cycle path.”

A spokeswoman for Thames Water said: “The vast majority of water pipes run under public spaces and footpaths so the one under the proposed cycle track is no different. Security is high at the sites where we treat the water and pump it into the wider pipe network but it would be impossible for supply pipes to not be under land accessed by the public."

Earlier this month, opponents of Waltham Forest’s Mini Holland initiative had their attempt to block the initiative thrown out of court. The group E17 Streets for All, which had claimed that the borough had not followed the consultation process correctly, was also ordered to pay the council costs of £12,000.

Alex has written for more cricket publications than the rest of the road.cc team combined. Despite the apparent evidence of this picture, he doesn't especially like cake.

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26 comments

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Kapelmuur | 8 years ago
2 likes

The road between Bucklow Hill and High Legh that is part of the Cheshire Cycleway was closed for several weeks recently.

I asked a contractor what was happening and he said that a pipeline to supply aviation fuel to Manchester Airport was being installed alongside the route of the new M6 - M56 link road.

I wonder what the Professor thinks about that?

 

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Bob's Bikes | 8 years ago
1 like

After I finished laughing at the absurd lengths some silly people will go to, I thought about the pipes running underneath the cycle path and the ensuing chaos everytime there's a suspected leak.

I hope the local cycle campaigners ask/insist that Thames water put them under the footpath.

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jollygoodvelo replied to Bob's Bikes | 8 years ago
0 likes

fatbeggaronabike wrote:

After I finished laughing at the absurd lengths some silly people will go to, I thought about the pipes running underneath the cycle path and the ensuing chaos everytime there's a suspected leak.

I hope the local cycle campaigners ask/insist that Thames water put them under the footpath.

Boris would sell that as 'integrated bike-washing services for the hard working people of Enfield'.

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felixcat | 8 years ago
2 likes

In some areas of London bikes are apparently seen as potential bombs. They have been moved from railings (having the lock cut) and stored in police station basements!

There is much about this on John Adams's website.

http://www.john-adams.co.uk/2008/07/28/bicycle-bombs-a-threat-to-westminster/

Is there something about bikes which triggers irrational phobias?

 

 

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brooksby replied to felixcat | 8 years ago
1 like

felixcat wrote:

In some areas of London bikes are apparently seen as potential bombs. They have been moved from railings (having the lock cut) and stored in police station basements!

There is much about this on John Adams's website.

http://www.john-adams.co.uk/2008/07/28/bicycle-bombs-a-threat-to-westminster/

Is there something about bikes which triggers irrational phobias?

 

 

Signs appeared on the Centre in Bristol just before Remembrance Sunday saying bikes could not be locked to railings or to the bike stands or else they would be removed. Presumably for that very reason.

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OldRidgeback replied to brooksby | 8 years ago
1 like

brooksby wrote:

felixcat wrote:

In some areas of London bikes are apparently seen as potential bombs. They have been moved from railings (having the lock cut) and stored in police station basements!

There is much about this on John Adams's website.

http://www.john-adams.co.uk/2008/07/28/bicycle-bombs-a-threat-to-westminster/

Is there something about bikes which triggers irrational phobias?

 

 

Signs appeared on the Centre in Bristol just before Remembrance Sunday saying bikes could not be locked to railings or to the bike stands or else they would be removed. Presumably for that very reason.

 

Actually, if you read Graham Greene at all you might remember that bicycle bombs do figure in one of his books, The Quiet American.

Bicycle bombs were also used by the IRA.

Otherwise though the complainant sounds bonkers.

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felixcat replied to OldRidgeback | 8 years ago
1 like

OldRidgeback wrote:

 

 

Actually, if you read Graham Greene at all you might remember that bicycle bombs do figure in one of his books, The Quiet American.

Bicycle bombs were also used by the IRA.

Otherwise though the complainant sounds bonkers.

 

Adams goes to some length to try to find any example of a bicycle bomb, as opposed to a bomb on a bag on a bike. He asks questions on a military forum. He can find no example of a bike bomb.

The bikes removed from railings were bikes without luggage, where the only place a bomb could be would be inside the frame. He does find one example, but the only result of this one was a flying saddle!

Take a look at his website, to which I gave a link.

I know Greene's work well. The bomb you refer to was on a bike, not in a bike. Removing naked bikes from railings is irrational. Putting them in the police station is just crazy, if you really fear they are explosive.

 

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OldRidgeback replied to felixcat | 8 years ago
0 likes

felixcat wrote:

OldRidgeback wrote:

 

 

 

Actually, if you read Graham Greene at all you might remember that bicycle bombs do figure in one of his books, The Quiet American.

Bicycle bombs were also used by the IRA.

Otherwise though the complainant sounds bonkers.

 

Adams goes to some length to try to find any example of a bicycle bomb, as opposed to a bomb on a bag on a bike. He asks questions on a military forum. He can find no example of a bike bomb.

The bikes removed from railings were bikes without luggage, where the only place a bomb could be would be inside the frame. He does find one example, but the only result of this one was a flying saddle!

Take a look at his website, to which I gave a link.

I know Greene's work well. The bomb you refer to was on a bike, not in a bike. Removing naked bikes from railings is irrational. Putting them in the police station is just crazy, if you really fear they are explosive.

 

 

Err, what link? Yep, in the Greene novel the bombs were fitted inside bicycle pumps. These were placed on bicycles and then cycled into place.

In the early 1990s the IRA used a small bomb attached to a bicycle in Brighton. As I recall, no one was hurt and there was only a small amount of damage.

But yes, removing bicycles from railings on the basis that they may contain some kind of device and then storing them inside police stations makes no sense whatsoever.

To go back to the article, the complainant does come across as a bit of a nutter. The MP puts it all neatly in context: Kingston and Surbiton Conservative MP James Berry said: “I would have thought the risk of terrorism in Kingston is highly unlikely, particularly on a cycle path.”

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felixcat replied to OldRidgeback | 8 years ago
1 like

OldRidgeback wrote:

 

Err, what link? Yep, in the Greene novel the bombs were fitted inside bicycle pumps. These were placed on bicycles and then cycled into place.

In the early 1990s the IRA used a small bomb attached to a bicycle in Brighton. As I recall, no one was hurt and there was only a small amount of damage.

 

 

If you go back up this discussion you will find a link.

I'm glad you have come to agree with my point.  Bare bikes are no threat, and cutting their lock to remove them from the railings is a weird sort of paranoia.  No sane cyclist leaves a bike with pump or bags in a public place.

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OldRidgeback replied to felixcat | 8 years ago
0 likes

felixcat wrote:

OldRidgeback wrote:

 

Err, what link? Yep, in the Greene novel the bombs were fitted inside bicycle pumps. These were placed on bicycles and then cycled into place.

 

In the early 1990s the IRA used a small bomb attached to a bicycle in Brighton. As I recall, no one was hurt and there was only a small amount of damage.

 

 

 

If you go back up this discussion you will find a link.

I'm glad you have come to agree with my point.  Bare bikes are no threat, and cutting their lock to remove them from the railings is a weird sort of paranoia.  No sane cyclist leaves a bike with pump or bags in a public place.

 

I didn't come to agree with your point as such. A bomb can be placed in pretty much anything tubular. Just because no one has used the frame of a bicycle so far to do this, it doesn't mean it couldn't happen. Granted, the quantities involved would be comparatively small but then it would in theory be a fairly easy way to transport such a device undetected.

The IRA did use a bicycle and it wouldn't have been so hard for them to place the device inside the frame tubing with the techniques they already used. In the dark days of the Vietnam War, the Viet Cong became adept at placing devices that seemed totally innocuous but were in fact quite deadly and many GIs were killed or maimed as a result.

I suppose you could argue that bicycles are less suspicious than cars in this respect because they're so much smaller and haven't been used often for such devices. I expect those in the security services who advised on the decision about not allowing bicycles to be locked up are highly aware of the IRA's record on placing devices, but the ordinary cops on the beat probably don't quite understand which is why seized bicycles end up in police storage.

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dafyddp | 8 years ago
3 likes

Reminds me of the stuffy naval officer, Sir Hugh Mahargg on Brass Eye a few years ago, explaining why the Royal Navy was no place for gay men:

"Homosexuals can't swim, they attract enemy radar, they attract sharks, they insist on being placed at "the captain's table", they get up late, they nudge people whilst they're shooting. They muck about. Imagine... the fear... of knowing you have a gay man on board a boat, when you retire at night you think to yourself "God... will I wake up and find everybody dead?" You can't run a ship like that."

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jollygoodvelo replied to dafyddp | 8 years ago
3 likes

dafyddp wrote:

Reminds me of the stuffy naval officer, Sir Hugh Mahargg on Brass Eye a few years ago, explaining why the Royal Navy was no place for gay men:

"Homosexuals can't swim, they attract enemy radar, they attract sharks, they insist on being placed at "the captain's table", they get up late, they nudge people whilst they're shooting. They muck about. Imagine... the fear... of knowing you have a gay man on board a boat, when you retire at night you think to yourself "God... will I wake up and find everybody dead?" You can't run a ship like that."

Are you suggesting that perhaps the cycle lane would attract... bad cyclists?  Not the good cyclists, the ones who win Olympic medals, yellow jerseys and that?  But bad cyclists, the ones who ride on pavements and run red lights and don't pay road tax?

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dafyddp replied to jollygoodvelo | 8 years ago
0 likes

Gizmo_ wrote:

 

Are you suggesting that perhaps the cycle lane would attract... bad cyclists?  Not the good cyclists, the ones who win Olympic medals, yellow jerseys and that?  But bad cyclists, the ones who ride on pavements and run red lights and don't pay road tax?

[/quote]

Ha! Ha!

I'm not, but it sounds like Professor Addled-Brain is trying to suggest you never know what these cyclist types might have strapped under their hi-viz vests. He once saw a cyclist give the finger to a local bobby - what more proof do you need that they're all a bunch of tree-hugging proto-anarchists, eh?

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1961BikiE | 8 years ago
4 likes

You have to say these sorts of arguments are surely counter productive. They make the claimants just look totally out of touch with reality. Long may they continue along this line of thinking.

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Carton | 8 years ago
8 likes

Just for reference: 

Combined death toll of all terrorist incidents in the last ten years (3,653 days) in the UK: 
3 (including one suicide bomber).

Estimated amount of people killed in road incidents in the UK a day: 
5

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Jacobi | 8 years ago
12 likes

Oh FFS - When all else fails call up the scare-mongers. 

If there's a cycle lane coming to your neighbourhood, who ya gonna call? Scare-mongers!

If there's some weird cyclists that don't look good, who ya gonna call? Scare-mongers!

I aint afraid of no lycra

I aint afraid of no lycra

If you can imagine cyclists pissing on your flowerbed, who ya gonna call? Scare-mongers!

If you want terrorists to read this thread, who ya gonna call? Scare-mongers!

These objectors are so pathetic they're beginning to look really stupid now.

 

 

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FluffyKittenofT... | 8 years ago
9 likes

Well, cars are a fairly obvious weapon for terrorists (they use them frequently as both as weapons and bomb-carriers).  So clearly cars need to be banned from Kingston, as you can't be too careful.

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congokid replied to FluffyKittenofTindalos | 8 years ago
2 likes

FluffyKittenofTindalos wrote:

Well, cars are a fairly obvious weapon for terrorists (they use them frequently as both as weapons and bomb-carriers).  

 

I like your thinking, FluffyKittneofTindalos. <Make notes on cuff of sleeve...>

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georgee | 8 years ago
2 likes

I do like the fact the opposite side of New MAlden High Street is a cycle path the exact same as planned running further west, Obviously it's known for being a hot bed of terrorist activity, highly likeley to blow you up or a wasteland for wildlife!

 

Fingers crossed once this scheme is done the world and his dog sh1ts in his back garden helpfully accessed by the new path.

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Canyon48 | 8 years ago
3 likes

This is hilariously stupid XD

Yes, theoretically it could make it a greater target, but probalby only for these guys https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ew-SrlQ9tlI

Ben

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zanf | 8 years ago
5 likes

Jesusfuck!

Was that main picture composited by a blind 8 year old in MS Paint? Whoever did that should quit their job immediately and cast off any delusions that they understand such things as 'perspective'!

 

If WW2 bombs were a reason not to build something, London would be deserted. Look at any unexploded ordnance survey of the UK and you would crap your pants!

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bikebot | 8 years ago
4 likes

This all happened three months ago, and you reported on it back then!

http://road.cc/content/news/161165-anti-cycling-petitioners-cite-unexplo...

The project is still moving forward slowly, but the need to replace the pipes (which looks like it will take at least two years) is setting the pace.

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therevokid | 8 years ago
2 likes

oh for the love of ..... !!!!!

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leaway2 | 8 years ago
21 likes

So called Islamic state must rubbing their hands with glee at the building of another cycle lane.

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jollygoodvelo | 8 years ago
7 likes

What utter, total bullcrap.  And as it is now, OMGTERRORISTS couldn't just park a van full of TNT over the pipeline if they gave a monkeys?

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DaveE128 | 8 years ago
16 likes

Just shows up what lengths these people will go to to grasp at straws...

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