Bodmin council admits getting more people to cycle, walk and take public transport is 'unrealistic' - so decides to build another road instead

Only two per cent of people in Bodmin currently cycle or take the bus

by Sarah Barth   February 16, 2014  

Bodmin Cornwall (Flickr CC Alan Perryman)

Bodmin Town Council has said that it doesn’t think the town would be able to shift significantly to walking, cycling and public transport.

Although it has said this would be desirable, revitalising town centre trading and improving air quality, the council has said it is ‘unrealistic’.

According to This is Cornwall, the council is now exploring ‘other solutions’, including creating a northern relief road to bypass the town.

One commenter on the article wrote: “About time someone in authority admitted that once you've bought a car and are spending hundreds of pounds a month on VED, insurance, servicing, and most of all depreciation, you're not going to leave it at home and stand at a bus stop for 10 mins to spend another £2.50 per day getting to work.”

In the council’s Town Plan for Bodmin, published in October last year, it noted:

Currently Bodmin has a higher proportion of people walking to work than national averages, yet has a much lower proportion of people cycling to work (only 1% of journeys being made by bike). Hills, lack of suitable cycle infrastructure and busy roads are the likely causes for this low figure.

Currently only 1.25% of all trips in Bodmin are made by bus. This is set against a national average of 8%. However, this low usage in Bodmin can be attributed, in part, to the fact that there is a limited town service, which currently doesn’t visit all key areas of housing and employment.

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oldstrath wrote:

Expensive? Maybe a thousand pounds. Bet most people who couldn't possibly afford that spend a lot more owning and running a car.

http://www.thisiscornwall.co.uk/Workers-Cornwall-pay-table/story-16594398-detail/story.html#axzz2tTVtdoBH

£1000 is a lot when you don't earn much, you can get a car for a few hundred pounds, and it is far more flexible. Yes a car has running costs, but even so they aren't that much, and if the car needs a couple hundred spent on it, trade it in and get a new banger.

The solution needs central government, local councils can't solve any of this. They just have to pick up the pieces of the mess we are in.

mrmo's picture

posted by mrmo [1080 posts]
16th February 2014 - 16:31

37 Likes

bambergbike wrote:
There must be loads of roads in Bodmin that aren't essential for through traffic. It ought to be possible to create large chunks of a coherent cycling network purely by making those Access Only (Bicycles excepted) and signposting proper bike routes that take them in. A few bollards could be deployed intelligently and one-way restrictions (again, bicycles excepted) imposed to make the use of those routes unattractive to motorists who have no real business there. The network design could initially be implemented very cheaply on a temporary and experimental basis, tweaked a bit, and then installed properly once it had proven itself and people were happy with it.

How big do you think Bodmin is? how many "spare" roads do you think it has?

http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?x=207441&y=66746&z=120&sv=bodmin&st=3...

small towns tend to use almost all the roads because they give access to the wider region, roads aren't their for the benefit of residents in the same way they are in a housing estate on the edge of a large town or city.

mrmo's picture

posted by mrmo [1080 posts]
16th February 2014 - 16:35

33 Likes

"Yes a car has running costs, but even so they aren't that much,"

Eh? While I grant that the current reality is that most people seem to want to run a car, that cars' running costs "aren't that much" definitely isn't why. Cars are amazingly expensive. You're looking at easily £70 (MOT + the minor work to make it pass that older cars nearly *always* need) + £125 to £200 VED (older cars tend to be worse for CO₂, for same CC) + insurance (£200 to £400, assuming you're 30+ and full NCB). That's ~£400 to £670 *before* you've even driven the car! If you drive 10,000 miles and average 40 mpg (not bad for an older car, esp in urban/commuting type traffic), you're going to spend a tenner shy of £1500 on petrol, if you can get it for £1.31 / litre!

So that's £1900 to £2170 per year, or £158 to £181 per month. That's not "not much", at least to me!

Further, that's assuming the car, despite being older, won't need anything other than minor maintenance - which I think is unrealistic. Personally, from experience with a 10+-year old car, I think you need to factor in at least £200, if not closer to £400, of preventative servicing and repair work per annum, on average, if you want it to be reliable and not dump you at the side of the road. Usually at the most inopportune moment!

Then there's all the time cars suck. From the time you waste at garages getting exhausts fixed, MOTs, etc.. to the time you waste sitting in traffic, your stress levels rising cause of the jams & the bastard in the expensive car who feels entitled to go down the hard-shoulder then cut-in in front of everyone else, your arteries slowly clogging up, from sitting on your arse for 1.5 hours every day instead of cycling! Smile You can't quantify how much this costs! Smile

For not-that-old people, or those without 3 years of NCB, the insurance costs can easily be double the £400 above, if not more. With £800 of insurance, the monthly costs are over £200!

I think a lot of people are in denial about just how expensive cars are to run, and what awful consequences they have for your quality of life, as well as others!

posted by Paul J [609 posts]
16th February 2014 - 17:30

36 Likes

Speaking as someone who grew up in the countryside this is already depressingly familiar.

Step 1. House prices rise beyond local wages. The only people who can afford to buy a house work in a larger town or city and commute.
Step 2. These people get their shopping at the big out-of- town megamarket on their way home [Cheaper, more convenient than the local shops and free parking!]. High street starts to die.
Step 3. Relief road is built to speed people past town as there is nothing to draw people in. Last shop closes. Town is dead.

Note to Some Fella
Beeching may be a villain; but the real baddie in all this was Buchanan. Beeching destroyed all hope of transport inter-modality; Buchanan made the car God.

posted by levermonkey [362 posts]
16th February 2014 - 17:33

35 Likes

@paul j,

not saying cars are cheap, but the alternatives are? bus service, there isn't one, so how do you do the shop? taxi? not exactly cheap. bike?, hills put most off that one. e bike? expensive and not as flexible as a car.

Problem is in rural areas cars become a necessity very quickly, how do you get to work, you drive, how do you get to the shops you drive. The shops will be on a retail park on the outskirts of a local town, the jobs, assuming you are lucky to have a non seasonal tourist related one, are on some commercial site. If your lucky the shops are near work.

Other things, your saying in urban traffic, it won't be, it's rural back roads, probably little motorway and not stop start. so economy goes up, most people i know drive old diesels if the mileage demands or small petrol hatchbacks, had an old diesel Octavia that when i scrapped it was still doing 60mpg. now in a small petrol polo that does c50.

VED isn't that cheap but you only pay half every 6 months and the government changing it to monthly will help.

MOT find one of the chains and they'll do it cheap, back street or mates for repairs. As for insurance, your too high i am not on full no claims and am down sub £200 in a less desirable area of a town.

The problem is simply the alternatives. In an urban area bikes can work almost all the time. In a rural area, a bike can work some of the time. To make it work at all will need government money and a lot of it. All the talk about cycling appears to me to be about London, there is plenty of money there already, as i mentioned earlier subsidy levels to the south west for public transport are pathetic, yet population density means it has to be high for there to be any chance of it working. Money can only really come from the centre as locally not enough exists.

mrmo's picture

posted by mrmo [1080 posts]
16th February 2014 - 18:34

34 Likes

oldstrath wrote:
Expensive? Maybe a thousand pounds. Bet most people who couldn't possibly afford that spend a lot more owning and running a car.

If you want to get the masses on bikes in any given town or city, it has to be possible for them to get about on cheap clunkers that can be picked up for a couple of hundred quid or less. That's what bikes as mass transport means, not directing people towards expensive niche machines ('leccy bikes are around £500+). Also, yes many of those people *will* have cars too, because they need them.

Rob Simmonds's picture

posted by Rob Simmonds [251 posts]
16th February 2014 - 18:41

30 Likes

Being someone who commutes to Bodmin (mostly by car, sometimes by bike) and works there, it is not surprising this has happened. It is very hilly, and it does rain quite a lot (high up place, and in Cornwall!). There are a host of complex social, economic and health problems in Bodmin too (it reminds me of some of the poorer parts of Liverpool where I went to college). Of course, it would probably be brilliant if people could get more exercise through cycling as it would improve peoples health, but it is a big ask. Not having a go at Bodmin Town Council, but it is not exactly bristling with dynamic leadership. There is absolutely NO culture of cycling in Bodmin at all. In order to really sort it out, there would need to be comprehensive plan of engagement with the local community to see if they see would see the benefits of getting on their bikes - they would also come up with any viable, less hilly routes. Only then, would it be worthwhile investing a lot of money in it - if the town council did so I think they would be lambasted for wasting money in what is a very poor town. It is quite ironic as there has just been a big investment in a decent mountain bike track in nearby Cardninham Woods (Forestry Commission) and the National Trust are just completing a really big off road cycling centre in equally nearby Lanhydrock. If it wanted to, Bodmin could be a real centre for cycling (with the Camel Trail also starting in the town).

posted by doubledex [17 posts]
16th February 2014 - 18:51

30 Likes

Spot on! Also, those of us that do have a go at commuting by bike in rural areas are open to some new dangers in that rural drivers are not so used to seeing cyclists on the road. They are used to completing their drive in set time - cyclists, tractors, horses, etc are a pain for them. As a father, I tend not to bother as I feel it is a bit irresponsible to cycle during the rush hour in rural areas - very fast cars around!!

posted by doubledex [17 posts]
16th February 2014 - 19:04

28 Likes

I recently read a book about Bletchley Park, the home of code breaking during the war, and how thousands of workers stationed there cycled the lanes of Buckinghamshire on their days off.

The thing is, most of these workers would probably have gone on to own a car after the war, because they could afford it. And we're now seeing things start to move the other way, through a recorded reduction in miles driven, the first time this has happened.

Any economist worth their salt will tell you that a 5 percent supply deficit in an inelastic commodity (like oil) results in a price rise of 400 percent. We haven't seen this phenomenon yet, because of the global recession, but we're competing with new wealth in India and China, and literally millions of new car owners who all want to live like us, so we're likely to see a dramatic fall in car useage in the future, possibly within the time it takes to get round to building yet another bypass in fact.

Bodmin cycle useage may only be 2 percent at the moment, but people without access to cars have tended to get on their bikes en masse in the past, and will no doubt do so again as the cost of motoring rises inexhorbably beyond the point of affordability for huge numbers.

"Hey..... Let's be visible out there."

Neil753's picture

posted by Neil753 [451 posts]
16th February 2014 - 20:16

41 Likes

Neil753 wrote:
I recently read a book about Bletchley Park, the home of code breaking during the war, and how thousands of workers stationed there cycled the lanes of Buckinghamshire on their days off.

The thing is, most of these workers would probably have gone on to own a car after the war, because they could afford it. And we're now seeing things start to move the other way, through a recorded reduction in miles driven, the first time this has happened.

Any economist worth their salt will tell you that a 5 percent supply deficit in an inelastic commodity (like oil) results in a price rise of 400 percent. We haven't seen this phenomenon yet, because of the global recession, but we're competing with new wealth in India and China, and literally millions of new car owners who all want to live like us, so we're likely to see a dramatic fall in car useage in the future, possibly within the time it takes to get round to building yet another bypass in fact.

Bodmin cycle useage may only be 2 percent at the moment, but people without access to cars have tended to get on their bikes en masse in the past, and will no doubt do so again as the cost of motoring rises inexhorbably beyond the point of affordability for huge numbers.

Was it a book by Sinclair McKay? He's written couple, both fascinating.

posted by allez neg [4 posts]
16th February 2014 - 20:33

26 Likes

Something that can help reduce car use is to separate ownership and use. If you own the car and are already paying for the fixed costs then it's a no-brainer to pay the relatively small amount extra to use it.

Car sharing schemes like street car and zip car can be a huge help here.

posted by horizontal dropout [148 posts]
16th February 2014 - 20:35

29 Likes

mrmo, "in rural areas cars become a necessity very quickly". I just don't buy this at all, this framing of cars as a necessity. Mass-produced cars have been around for only 90 years, and mass car ownership is maybe only a thing of the last 50 to 60 years. Did no one live in rural areas prior to 60 to 90 years ago? I don't think so.

So how did they survive? I suspect they walked, used carts and many used the cheap and efficient *bicycle* - including cargo-bicycles.

Go to the more rural, remote parts of the Netherlands (though, no where is really 'remote'), there are some kids who cycle 10 to 20 km a day to get to school. Ditto in rural China, at least until recently (there's been an explosion in car use in China the last 10 odd years though, esp the last 5).

The issue is that people *prefer* cars, but a car is not a necessity.

posted by Paul J [609 posts]
16th February 2014 - 21:04

31 Likes

I dare bet that those who want fuel and parking charges raised don't live in the countryside. It doesn't matter though because the rural minority are only of interest when the world wants to see some floods.
My parents would suffer as would many of the elderly. I can't see me cycling the 25 miles each way to work either. I would like to but I don't have the hours in the day.
Another ill informed comment. I see your point but it doesn't work. Bang the costs up in the cities maybe.
I know. Lets have a tax on domestic on street parking. Say a grand a year. That would free up all those cycle lanes people park in and stop urban dwellers having vehicles that they don't need for their 5 mile commute.
As my dad says, "don't have a sheep if you haven't got a field."
good idea? It's as good as anything else here.

posted by mattsccm [249 posts]
16th February 2014 - 21:05

22 Likes

Paul J wrote:
mrmo, "in rural areas cars become a necessity very quickly". I just don't buy this at all, if you frame cars as a necessity. Mass-produced cars have been around for only 90, and mass car ownership is maybe only a thing of the last 50 to 60 years. Did no one live in rural areas prior to 60 years ago? I don't think so.

And what has changed in the last few decades, and we are talking decades? there was a time when you lived where you worked, that is no longer the case. Farms don't need the staff so you have more contracting across a number of farms and needing to move kit around. You have far more urban commuters relocating to the country, which in turn has destroyed local shops so you need to travel to get to the shops. Local village schools have been merged so either drive the kids or use the bus, or as i see everyday, drive the kid to the bus stop which may be a couple of miles on country lanes. Not really nice places for kids to be walking or cycling. Then you have the issue of many rural buses running very stupid times, once a week, first bus 11am, completely pointless for anyone other than the retired.
If you want a job you take what you can get that may or may have a huge amount of choice, this isn't London, there aren't many employers.

All to often riding lanes you have idiots thinking that 60mph is fine, even on blind corners, which just makes it less appealing, i know sections of NCN which are on "quiet" roads, yes they may not have much traffic, but the traffic they have!!!

I live in a reasonably large town in a rural area, i have the luxury of shops on my doorstep, if you live in any of the outlying small towns, you have basic shops, but clothing, unless it is some boutique aimed at the "country set" out of luck. As for other items unless you like antiques forget it. In smaller villages, the post offices have as a general rule gone and with it another local shop. Bus services get worse as subsidies get cut.

Jobs, well they simply don't exist, the odd labourer, farrier, hunt yards, farms and the like but rural areas only really function today because of cars.

mrmo's picture

posted by mrmo [1080 posts]
16th February 2014 - 21:19

27 Likes

horizontal dropout wrote:
Something that can help reduce car use is to separate ownership and use. If you own the car and are already paying for the fixed costs then it's a no-brainer to pay the relatively small amount extra to use it.

Car sharing schemes like street car and zip car can be a huge help here.

only if enough people are going in the same direction at the same time, remember small town small numbers of people, commuting in all sorts of directions.

mrmo's picture

posted by mrmo [1080 posts]
16th February 2014 - 21:26

35 Likes

mrmo,

I like your last comment, and don't disagree with you. Those are all issues in the short-term. However, you paint a picture of a world shaped by cars to suit cars, and then conclude this makes cars a necessity. That's a somewhat self-fulfilling argument though, isn't it?

And I still don't completely buy it. Even in rural Scotland, there's often still a village or even town within 5 km. That's a 20 to 30 minute cycle at a relaxed pace that even the young and old could manage. There was a time when people used to regularly *walk* those distances, and a time after that when cycling those distances was quite normal (and still is in parts of the world, including developed Europe - e.g. NL).

So I still don't buy it. People *choose* to drive, in large part cause they're lazy (useful evolutionary trait) and driving is cheap enough. If they couldn't afford it, they'd find other ways. Many would be well *capable* of cycling, with a month or two of adjustment perhaps for some, including the elderly.

Things like road safety would improve with more cyclists!

posted by Paul J [609 posts]
16th February 2014 - 23:00

30 Likes

Bodmin is in a peculiar position. Nestled in a valley surrounded on all sides by lengthy hills, the roads are main roads used by all the blue chip companies running out fuel and groceries around. People (the locals) are generally struggling to find work. There's little employment here & you have to travel far to go to work, working populations are thin on the ground. However Cornwall County Council do little to assist cyclists with awful routes or no routes at all.
I've cycled Plymouth to Redruth most of which has to be completed on a major trunk road of the A38. I believe they need to invest &.try harder.

posted by Guyz2010 [284 posts]
16th February 2014 - 23:12

33 Likes

Guyz: I went cycling in the Italian Appenines - proper mountains and steep roads - and saw quite a few OAP types, men and women cycling around! (And Italian drivers are a lot more nuts than here, if you can believe that).

posted by Paul J [609 posts]
16th February 2014 - 23:41

28 Likes

Paul J wrote:
mrmo,

I like your last comment, and don't disagree with you. Those are all issues in the short-term. However, you paint a picture of a world shaped by cars to suit cars, and then conclude this makes cars a necessity. That's a somewhat self-fulfilling argument though, isn't it?

very much so, which is why the solution isn't local councils. Why do we allow out of town retail? it demands cars and basically kills everything else. It needs a national framework where the supermarkets can't just go to judicial review and get their way. It also needs national standards about how roads are builds, how non driving users are accommodated.

Quote:
And I still don't completely buy it. Even in rural Scotland, there's often still a village or even town within 5 km. That's a 20 to 30 minute cycle at a relaxed pace that even the young and old could manage. There was a time when people used to regularly *walk* those distances, and a time after that when cycling those distances was quite normal (and still is in parts of the world, including developed Europe - e.g. NL).

while i live on the edge of the Cotswolds and there are plenty of small villages miles from a shop. The commuter effect, easier to get your shopping in Cheltenham/Gloucester/Cirencester/Moreton than from the local shop, some villages may have a pub but thats about it. Plus there is a lot of traffic on many of the roads making them very unpleasant places to be.

That last point is the crucial one.

mrmo's picture

posted by mrmo [1080 posts]
16th February 2014 - 23:41

22 Likes

Paul J wrote:
Guyz: I went cycling in the Italian Appenines - proper mountains and steep roads - and saw quite a few OAP types, men and women cycling around! (And Italian drivers are a lot more nuts than here, if you can believe that).

but cycling is regarded as normal, read the daily mail* comments about cyclists to understand the british attitude!

*actually don't it is far too depressing!

mrmo's picture

posted by mrmo [1080 posts]
16th February 2014 - 23:43

21 Likes

Work in a similarly sized small rural town and see the same issues. Culture and habit and weather make people think a car is always the answer, while urban issues of congestion and lack of parking don't really exist on a practical level.
Large increases in fuel prices are the only driver for change I can see, but in the meantime I'm trying to at least get the option of some cycle routes where they are an obvious plus.
20mph limits, filtered permeability and other effective sticks will be a while off yet.

posted by CarlosFerreiro [56 posts]
16th February 2014 - 23:48

24 Likes

Carlos: I agree culture is a large part.

We've somehow managed to convince ourselves that cycling 5 km, or cycling up a hill, is something normal people just couldn't be expected to do. That normal people did this en masse 50+ years ago, and still do in some places, disproves that notion I think.

People are just incredibly resistant to physical activity these days. Personally, I think that notion and resistance needs to be pushed back against, for at least several reasons:

1. The obesity and inactivity epidemic is costing us billions in health costs. It is costing many people their quality of life.

2. Burning hydrocarbons to push 1000 kg+ of metal around, when a good %age of those journeys could easily be accomplished through active transport (walking, cycling) is doing incredible damage to the environment. Both in the short-term, in health-damaging emissions, and longer-term in climate-changing CO₂ emissions.

Also, someone mentioned running an older diesel car. Diesels, older ones especially, emit absolutely horrendous particulates and noxious gases. Thousands are dying prematurely because of diesel emissions. Please think twice before buying a diesel, especially an older one. The sooner they're all in the scrap yard the better.

posted by Paul J [609 posts]
17th February 2014 - 10:11

17 Likes

Speaking as someone who has commuted on country lanes and as an ex courier, even I would think twice about doing it again. Add the average fitness level of a typical commuter, terrain like that around Bodmin, drivers who do 60+ even on single-track lanes around there and I for one can see why it's not a popular method.

Most people are reluctant to spend the extra time involved in turning their commute into a ride. Add in that most employers, particularly small businesses are unwilling/unable to provide shower and changing facilities and this is an up-hill battle.

Things that work in cities and larger towns are just not solutions for the country. Increasing the costs of car ownership for those with no viable alternative is just stupid. I saw a study a few years back that said most (70%?) of commuter car journeys were under 2 miles. In the country that simply isn't so.

I think it's time that those occupying Westminster find a more targeted solution to the car issue than VED & fuel taxes. Since most of the problems with car use are urban anyway.

I may prefer to ride myself, but I recognise I am in a minority here.

posted by cybernaut [7 posts]
17th February 2014 - 10:52

21 Likes

userfriendly wrote:
Raise petrol costs. Raise VED. And lo and behold, more people will take to bicycles.

No it won't. I am old enough to have been driving in the late seventies when petrol climbed from 50p a gallon to over £1 a gallon and by 1985 it was £1.50 a gallon. Now that's a gallon or 4.55 litres. Plenty of talk and that no-one would carry on driving if petrol went over £1 a gallon. That's 21p a litre.

So no the costs of motoring will not deter because they are relative. The relative cost of driving has gone down and that's because despite the austerity we are actually getting richer and richer as a country.

People may moan about the costs of motoring but the roaods are not full of small economical cars with owners just about able to keep them on the road. There are plenty of people who are quite willing to pay more and more for their cars. They are not deterred by costs however much they moan about the cost.

I still think that they should be taxed to the hilt and so long as people will sit their idling their engines or buying bigger and bigger cars rather than smaller and smaller ones, then petrol is still to cheap. Putting up the cost of motoring will not deter people from driving.

If you want to get people out of their cars then you have to make it impossible for them to use them for certain journeys. If you cannot actually park the car or drive it in the middle of towns then that may work. You just have to persuade councils to forego the parking revenue (as if ) and to be the first town to say it doesn't want people shopping there if they bring a car. ie very brave if done by individual councils.

I am, as you can see, pretty pessimistic about reducing the use of motorised transport.

Cycling is like a church - many attend, but few understand.

posted by oozaveared [581 posts]
17th February 2014 - 11:03

24 Likes

Street car and zip car are a different type of car sharing scheme sometimes called a car club. The scheme owns cars which are parked around the town. As a member you rent a car for as little as 30 minutes. They are good for doing those non-bike errands, 2 bits of 8x4 to pick up, granny's come to stay for a couple of days... So they fill the gap between rental and owning.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streetcar_%28carsharing%29

posted by horizontal dropout [148 posts]
17th February 2014 - 11:16

20 Likes

tbh don't blame people for not wanting to cycle in bodmin, EVERY STREET IS UP A HILL.
no joke, if you've not been, go. it's mad.
I'm an ok cyclist, commute approx 20km a day most days, I wouldn't want to go anywhere near bodmin.

also there's nothing there anyone wants to see? town centre is dead, nothing of interest in the area (not sure if the gaol has re-opened?).

posted by VeNT [37 posts]
17th February 2014 - 12:57

22 Likes

VeNT wrote:
tbh don't blame people for not wanting to cycle in bodmin, EVERY STREET IS UP A HILL.
no joke, if you've not been, go. it's mad.

I think you may have confused Bodmin with the works of M.C. Escher.

posted by farrell [1415 posts]
17th February 2014 - 13:15

29 Likes

Afficionados of the ITV series "Doc Martin", set in some Cornish coastal village, may be familiar with the locals' term for being a bit daft or doolally or bonkers - "going Bodmin".

Sounds about right.

posted by Paul M [310 posts]
17th February 2014 - 16:03

21 Likes

Peeps, the solution to any number of transport issues can be resolved through one single initiative - affordable housing, and in sufficient quantities to allow sustainable living on local wages for everyone who chooses so to do.

Many of my neighbours commute into the city, displacing local workers who have to live further afield and, in turn they displace yet many more. Of course, for many, this still means the dreaded dual income requirement; the guilt of dumping the kids with strangers, the requirement to collect their Amazon nicknacks by car from the depot because no-one's at home during the day, and the need to treat themselves to a much needed coffee in Costa whilst we bemoan the tax affairs of corporates that force us to close libraries and daycare centres.

And all this whilst being told that cyclists not only live longer, but are actually more attractive to the opposite sex! Is it any wonder that these poor unfortunates, unable to escape their sacharine, pseudo-compensatory lifestyles, see us cyclists as objects of hatred?

Nope, it's affordable housing that'll solve transport problems, not extra tarmac.

"Hey..... Let's be visible out there."

Neil753's picture

posted by Neil753 [451 posts]
17th February 2014 - 20:48

25 Likes

Don't blame Dr Beeching, whatever the outcome of his report was, Ernest Marple was going to build more roads to help enrich his families road building business> Beeching has been incorrectly blamed for Marple's greed and corruption for far to long. Cool

posted by Gus T [28 posts]
9th March 2014 - 9:51

14 Likes