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So a fairly good story in my local paper turns into something quite vile, have a read of the comments, apparently cyclists are biggots, louts, and the scum of the earth

http://www.sthelensstar.co.uk/news/10760813.Pedal_Power_report__Cycle_ro...

26 comments

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dave atkinson [6208 posts] 2 years ago
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I see they've gone for the usual local rag tactic of using a racing cyclist for a story about utility routes  22

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mrmo [2069 posts] 2 years ago
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i read the first few comments and....

I dispare, i really do! I ride a bike, i drive a car. Use the right tool for the job in hand. Does it make sense to drive into town to pick up the odd thing? No. Does it make sense to do the weekly shop with a car? sort of.

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jason.timothy.jones [294 posts] 2 years ago
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yeah, nothing about the thousands of children or commuters that run the gauntlet every day

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700c [859 posts] 2 years ago
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To be fair, the local paper probably only used the image to glamorise the article and as a tenuous local link (he trains in the area)

The article is a positive one about cycling and the need to improve safety

As for the comments, the local cycle hating trolls got shot down and based on the number of 'likes', do not represent the views of the majority.

So a reason to be cheerful after all!

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jova54 [649 posts] 2 years ago
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What a bunch of knob-heads.  29

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farrell [1950 posts] 2 years ago
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I'm pretty sure they still point at planes in St Helens, some poor sod on race bike probably looks like a creature from the future to most of them.

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Leviathan [1886 posts] 2 years ago
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smith&weston says...

I see the cycling louts are busy clicking the thumbs down as fast as they can. They really are a mean spiteful bunch of individuals. I've only got this to say to you...LANCE ARMSTRONG. What a fine example of the noble sport of cycling
Score: -42

The ignorance on every other comment on that thread is incredible. Apparently anyone kitted out at the weekend is a lout, anyone else is just a moving road block. Even if there is a 'perfectly good' cycle path, what is the point of it if it is either shared with pedestrians or 200m long with a lamp post at the end or a sudden jag back to the right? It is not safe or quicker to be coming off the road to come back on a right angles. Idiot like this need to be made to ride a bike for 6 months to understand what we do and why.

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sm [375 posts] 2 years ago
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Oh dear, sadly an attitude most cyclists have to put up with. This is why I don't argue with drivers on the road. As these comments demonstrate, there's little point trying to argue the finer points with an irrational block head (apologies to the 98% of drivers who don't frequent forums and driver very well!)

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Northernbike [229 posts] 2 years ago
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Anyone expecting Chomsky-Foucault in the comment tread of a local rag like that is always going to be disappointed so don't be too disheartened. Those folks won't be leaving the house much so you're unlikely to meet them face to face.

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arfa [734 posts] 2 years ago
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Should come with the standard online warning - "beware, internet forums regularly contain nuts".

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Leviathan [1886 posts] 2 years ago
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Northernbike wrote:

Anyone expecting Chomsky-Foucault in the comment tread of a local rag like that is always going to be disappointed so don't be too disheartened. Those folks won't be leaving the house much so you're unlikely to meet them face to face.

Not after dark, their tags will go off.

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Simon E [2652 posts] 2 years ago
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Newspapers are 100% about sensationalism because it sells. Facts and logic don't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outgroup_(sociology)

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Leodis [403 posts] 2 years ago
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This is the problem when councils create cycle paths/routes, other road users expect/demand cyclists not use the roads. Imho cycle paths are worse for cycling that a painted line on the road.

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Tom Amos [236 posts] 2 years ago
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The strange thing about the road tax debate is that you can buy cars that are exempt. Even if bikes were included in ved, they would be exempt as under current government policy, zero emission vehicles are not charged. Is this moron aware that some of his fellow motorists are driving around without paying road tax (in his words)?

Moreover, if he has a problem with government policy, he should contact the Secretary of state for transport or his mp. It's got nothing to do with cyclists. We didn't write the rule book.

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egb [43 posts] 2 years ago
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Leodis wrote:

This is the problem when councils create cycle paths/routes, other road users expect/demand cyclists not use the roads. Imho cycle paths are worse for cycling that a painted line on the road.

I'm glad I'm not alone on this sentiment. Cycle lanes merely create more of a difference between 'us and them' and waters down any logical argument against using them. Cycle lanes don't address the major problem of road safety, which is terrible driving and attitudes.

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dave atkinson [6208 posts] 2 years ago
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egb wrote:

Cycle lanes don't address the major problem of road safety, which is terrible driving and attitudes.

they do if they're properly designed, protected and segregated, because the standard of driving, and attitudes of drivers, won't really matter.

make the cycle lanes good enough and people won't want to ride on the road instead. the only reason they ( and I ) do is because the lanes are rubbish, because councils aren't required to build them to the standards expected of their european counterparts.

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Jimbonic [136 posts] 2 years ago
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Dave Atkinson wrote:
egb wrote:

Cycle lanes don't address the major problem of road safety, which is terrible driving and attitudes.

they do if they're properly designed, protected and segregated, because the standard of driving, and attitudes of drivers, won't really matter.

make the cycle lanes good enough and people won't want to ride on the road instead. the only reason they ( and I ) do is because the lanes are rubbish, because councils aren't required to build them to the standards expected of their european counterparts.

Yep, rode in Copenhagen a short while ago - what a great set-up. The cycle lanes were all / mostly segregated from the roads, had separate lights, local drivers were attentive to cyclists, etc. So, there was mutual respect was in abundance. OK, the traffic is nowhere near as heavy as in London. But, then was a huge number of cyclists - maybe there's a link...

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Jimbonic [136 posts] 2 years ago
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700c wrote:

As for the comments, the local cycle hating trolls got shot down and based on the number of 'likes', do not represent the views of the majority.

So a reason to be cheerful after all!

I'd like to agree with you, if I hadn't heard the "joke" by Joe Wilkinson about running cyclists off the road on 8 out of 10 Cats last weekend. Now, perhaps, I shouldn't give too much credence to such a show. But, it goes to show how acceptable this attitude has become.

There was also a similar comment from Lee Noble on QI some while ago.

I know we're in the "road.cc bubble" here and it's easy to work ourselves up into righteous fury, whilst talking to like-minded folk. However, public acceptance of cyclist-hate is difficult to stomach.

BUT, I do take solace from the stats in your comment, Mr/Mrs/Ms/Miss 700c. Thank you.  1

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Dog72 [106 posts] 2 years ago
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The comments are no different than the ones that appear in my local paper in Cambridge, there could even be some copy/paste action going on. I think you have to think about the types that make these statements and not get to bothered, they are narrow minded fuckwits. I also think that if you were to look at other stories on the site they would be sharing there gems of wisdom on a whole range of issues.

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Colin Peyresourde [1690 posts] 2 years ago
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Dave Atkinson wrote:
egb wrote:

Cycle lanes don't address the major problem of road safety, which is terrible driving and attitudes.

they do if they're properly designed, protected and segregated, because the standard of driving, and attitudes of drivers, won't really matter.

make the cycle lanes good enough and people won't want to ride on the road instead. the only reason they ( and I ) do is because the lanes are rubbish, because councils aren't required to build them to the standards expected of their european counterparts.

The only problem I have with cycle lanes is that they're not for going fast. Or at least the segregated bike lanes are not.

And once they are set up there is the entrenched notion that cyclists should not be on the road if there are good cycle lanes. I don't suppose you are saying that they should replace the bi-ways of our countryside, but more for the commuting areas of towns. Sadly for someone who cannot distinguish between vehicle excise tax and road tax they may have problems with that sort of thinking too.

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dave atkinson [6208 posts] 2 years ago
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Colin Peyresourde wrote:

The only problem I have with cycle lanes is that they're not for going fast. Or at least the segregated bike lanes are not.

http://aseasyasridingabike.wordpress.com/2013/02/26/no-you-are-not-held-...

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egb [43 posts] 2 years ago
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Dave Atkinson wrote:
egb wrote:

Cycle lanes don't address the major problem of road safety, which is terrible driving and attitudes.

they do if they're properly designed, protected and segregated, because the standard of driving, and attitudes of drivers, won't really matter.

make the cycle lanes good enough and people won't want to ride on the road instead. the only reason they ( and I ) do is because the lanes are rubbish, because councils aren't required to build them to the standards expected of their european counterparts.

The attitudes of drivers certainly does matter when the cycle lanes run out. Most of the UK roads aren't going to have lanes on. When some inconsiderate oaf storms past me at 50mph, inches away from my bars on the top of the Mendips what good is a cycle lane in central Bristol? Expensive infrastructure won't change attitudes. Sure it would be nice but it doesn't address the 'road is mine' attitude of drivers that permeates British culture, in fact it does quite the opposite. Education has to be the primary way forward.

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mooleur [537 posts] 2 years ago
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This makes me want to go postal.

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Ian Turnedge [13 posts] 2 years ago
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Replying to Dave:

Agreed. But realistically, who is going to educate the people making hand held calls from the comfort of their Audi whilst speeding past the nursery?

One simple way would be to have more public information films, and covering all media.

"Don't forget to clear your whole windscreen of snow, or you might kill someone".
"Have a good look around before you open your car door".
"Carry spare batteries for your bike lights"
"Don't take the reflectors off, it won't make you go faster"
"If you hit a cyclist in a car, you will probably kill them, and your insurance will be affected".
"Give cyclists more room".
"This isn't Le Mans".

That sort of thing...

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PJ McNally [591 posts] 2 years ago
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"perfectly good cycle lanes" - spoken with the air of true insight that only comes from driving past a bit of cycling infrastructure. Not from actually riding on it, obviously.

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FluffyKittenofT... [1175 posts] 2 years ago
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egb wrote:
Dave Atkinson wrote:
egb wrote:

Cycle lanes don't address the major problem of road safety, which is terrible driving and attitudes.

they do if they're properly designed, protected and segregated, because the standard of driving, and attitudes of drivers, won't really matter.

make the cycle lanes good enough and people won't want to ride on the road instead. the only reason they ( and I ) do is because the lanes are rubbish, because councils aren't required to build them to the standards expected of their european counterparts.

The attitudes of drivers certainly does matter when the cycle lanes run out. Most of the UK roads aren't going to have lanes on. When some inconsiderate oaf storms past me at 50mph, inches away from my bars on the top of the Mendips what good is a cycle lane in central Bristol? Expensive infrastructure won't change attitudes. Sure it would be nice but it doesn't address the 'road is mine' attitude of drivers that permeates British culture, in fact it does quite the opposite. Education has to be the primary way forward.

You have a point - I really don't know what the best way forward is outside of urban areas. (Though wouldn't decent parallel routes be a solution in some cases? There's no shortage of space out there).

But there is one way that good infrastructure might change drivers attitudes - it would encourage more people to cycle, and many of those would be people who drive outside those cities. Drivers who themselves regularly use a bike (for actual transport, rather than once round the park on a Sunday) are probably going to be a bit more aware of cyclists even on those roads in the Mendips?