Most Combative Rider Award

by enrique   May 5, 2013  

drheaton wrote:
Points going up, for info Cavendish was awarded most combative... for the stage so he gets another 10 points...
I don't like the Most Combative Rider Award. Everything else in the race is based on a measurement, an order, who gets there first, etc.... This one? Well, it's judged. It's awarded. Not measured. It might as well be a beauty pageant award. I think it can be a pretty subjective thing... I propose we get rid of that award next season. Smile

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sm wrote:
chiv30 wrote:
If you want to have any credibility you should be playing the premium , otherwise you really shouldn't be asking for game changes.

I'm not so sure this is correct, I think it's the way enrique poses his points that's the problem, pretty much as TERatcliffe highlights.

In regards to that answer , read TERs 3rd paragraph , it's the exact point I was getting at.
I just put it the same way Enrique puts his opinions hoping he would see the issue clearly Wink

posted by chiv30 [870 posts]
5th May 2013 - 10:10

3 Likes

Cav was at the front nearly all the stage marshalling his team so that the break did not get away and was still there, without his train i might add, to come through from quite a distance back for a sprinter and win against some of the form men and quickets men around at the mo.

Well done to him and for that he deserves the combativity award imho.

‘It is useless to meet revenge with revenge: it will heal nothing.’

stumps's picture

posted by stumps [2751 posts]
5th May 2013 - 11:04

4 Likes

sm wrote:
... I don't think it's right that we attack enrique for voicing an opinion....

Thanks...

sm wrote:
... Enrique, take the time to read TERatcliffe's points and consider this next time you post...

I will... Appreciate it...

sm wrote:
... I like the subjective nature of the combative award. It rewards excellence and points to an achievement that cannot be summed up simply by saying I came first, second or third. It says: today this rider was special beyond the boundaries of the race and here we honour this special effort with our judgement.

I like it, too! Smile I just think it's a lot of points for someone who probably already (!) racked up a lot of points Smile

TERatcliffe26 wrote:
... Why not say things like what does everyone think of this aspect of the game... rather than jumping straight in with I don't like x so we should get rid of it...

Ok, (sigh!) Smile Let me try a different approach... Wink

What do you guys think of reconsidering the points awarded for the Combativity Award and lowering it to 5 points only next year? Wink

TERatcliffe26 wrote:
Enrique the biggest problem is your initial expression of your opinion then... it comes across as 'I don't like it so we shouldn't have it'...

TER, you're right... I can't help but to write things like this and then I have no idea how it comes across so arrogantly Thinking I do love this game, but I am kind of unaware of how others take my tone online... It's probably a family and cultural thing... We have so many fights a day in my family it's incredible! We annoy the crap out of each other, get iritated, slap each other around and get on with it! Wink No arrogance intended, really... I guess I come from a feisty crowd! Smile

drheaton wrote:
... I have one question though, did you have Cav in your team yesterday? Big Grin

I did... Big Grin

I also had these other idiots on my team!

Ferrari, Goss and Degenkolb... By the way, would you put your money on Goss and Degenkold making it to the end to contest Monday's stage? You think Cav, will make it?

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posted by enrique [1747 posts]
5th May 2013 - 11:14

3 Likes

stumps wrote:
Cav was at the front nearly all the stage... to come through... and win against some of the... quickest men... Well done to him... he deserves the combativity award imho.

He does (!) deserve it, my point isn't about whether he deserves it or not, really...

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posted by enrique [1747 posts]
5th May 2013 - 11:15

4 Likes

To be fair the first post doesn't demand anything....just proposes?

To be unfair enrique's profile shows him to be a New Yorker who rides 'Bikes I rent in the Park' ....nuff said Wink

posted by ray silvester [1835 posts]
5th May 2013 - 11:16

4 Likes

enrique wrote:
sm wrote:
... I don't think it's right that we attack enrique for voicing an opinion....

Thanks...

sm wrote:
... Enrique, take the time to read TERatcliffe's points and consider this next time you post...

I will... Appreciate it...

sm wrote:
... I like the subjective nature of the combative award. It rewards excellence and points to an achievement that cannot be summed up simply by saying I came first, second or third. It says: today this rider was special beyond the boundaries of the race and here we honour this special effort with our judgement.

I like it, too! Smile I just think it's a lot of points for someone who probably already (!) racked up a lot of points Smile

TERatcliffe26 wrote:
... Why not say things like what does everyone think of this aspect of the game... rather than jumping straight in with I don't like x so we should get rid of it...

Ok, (sigh!) Smile Let me try a different approach... Wink

What do you guys think of reconsidering the points awarded for the Combativity Award and lowering it to 5 points only next year? Wink

TERatcliffe26 wrote:
Enrique the biggest problem is your initial expression of your opinion then... it comes across as 'I don't like it so we shouldn't have it'...

TER, you're right... I can't help but to write things like this and then I have no idea how it comes across so arrogantly Thinking I do love this game, but I am kind of unaware of how others take my tone online... It's probably a family and cultural thing... We have so many fights a day in my family it's incredible! We annoy the crap out of each other, get iritated, slap each other around and get on with it! Wink No arrogance intended, really... I guess I come from a feisty crowd! Smile

drheaton wrote:
... I have one question though, did you have Cav in your team yesterday? Big Grin

I did... Big Grin

I also had these other idiots on my team!

Ferrari, Goss and Degenkolb... By the way, would you put your money on Goss and Degenkold making it to the end to contest Monday's stage? You think Cav, will make it?

Goss done alright.....could be in Pink after the TTT(although I'm still sticking with my gut feeling that it'll be Navardauskas).

posted by ray silvester [1835 posts]
5th May 2013 - 11:21

3 Likes

I think we should award Enrique a Combativity award for being, er, combative. I love his posts. Or I love the reaction to his posts. Have you all considered he just says things to wind everyone up. He cannot be serious surley Thinking

posted by letsgoup [139 posts]
5th May 2013 - 12:50

5 Likes

I read this on twitter last night..... Devil Devil

Given up answering his question's, complaints, comments....etc. Someone go tell him to shut up ITS A GAME http://road.cc/82480 via @roadcc

Gkam84's picture

posted by Gkam84 [8855 posts]
5th May 2013 - 13:11

4 Likes

enrique wrote:
I don't look that closely at all the scores

please.

anyway, all he's asking is if we can drop the combativity award for next year.

and the answer is no.

Dave Atkinson's picture

posted by Dave Atkinson [7379 posts]
5th May 2013 - 16:03

5 Likes

letsgoup wrote:
I think we should award Enrique a Combativity award for being, er, combative. I love his posts. Or I love the reaction to his posts. Have you all considered he just says things to wind everyone up. He cannot be serious surley Thinking

+1

I enjoy your threads Enrique and you are not the only one who has been known to raise the backs of other subscribers on occasion. You often raise legitimate points but I have to agree with the majority on this one - it is an official award and that should be reflected in our game, subjective or not.

The pedant inside me does request that you reduce the quotations and the icons though. You are on a rocky road to matching Gkam with his smileys and commas.

Cool Confused Angry Crying Devil Big Grin Liar Nerd Plain Face Sad Sick Smile Surprise Thinking Wink Yawn

posted by superpoppet01 [2 posts]
5th May 2013 - 20:41

6 Likes

Dave Atkinson wrote:
... and the answer is no.

There. Question asked. Question answered! Smile How difficult was that?...

superpoppet01 wrote:
... Cool Confused Angry Crying Devil Big Grin Liar Nerd Plain Face Sad Sick Smile Surprise Thinking Wink Yawn

Nice! Smile

superpoppet01 wrote:
... You are on a rocky road to matching Gkam with his smileys and commas.

My hero, Gkam! Smile I learned how to interact on the forum from him. I owe him my 'Irritability' factor! Smile God knows how he annoyed the crap out of me last year! Smile If asked, I would would accept the Gkam Memorial Award for Most Irrititating Poster for 2013! Smile

superpoppet01 wrote:
... I enjoy your threads Enrique...

Thanks! Smile

Vive Le Road.cc Fantasy Cycling Game!

posted by enrique [1747 posts]
5th May 2013 - 21:57

4 Likes

enrique wrote:

My hero, Gkam! Smile I learned how to interact on the forum from him. I owe him my 'Irritability' factor! Smile God knows how he annoyed the crap out of me last year! Smile If asked, I would would accept the Gkam Memorial Award for Most Irritating Poster for 2013! Smile

Erm, thank you. I think I've got a few people interacting on the forum. When I used to raise points. It was a fairly new game and things were still getting worked out.

This is going back to 2011 and earlier.

The game is fairly settled now and I am also part of the team running it. So I can't have been that irritating Wink

Quite a number of my suggestions and comments lead to things happening, some people would improve on my original thought and Dave would then put his touch on it and enacting it into the game.

One other reason I continued to post "provocative" thoughts and statements back then was to actually get people onto the forum and chatting, it was quite a dead place back then, there were only a few of us, maybe 10 who would be using this part of the site.

Now I'm not being big headed, but I feel that the forum has steadily grown over that time and a small part of that might be down to me Nerd Nerd

So carry on making comments and suggestions, one day you might hit something that will work. But don't expect the warm loving friendly comments that normally come with the forum when you start new threads day in day out with grumbles Wink

That's my "beef" with you, not really a beef as such, but do you need to keep starting new threads?? Try and keep it contained to one Big Grin Nerd

Gkam84's picture

posted by Gkam84 [8855 posts]
6th May 2013 - 0:45

3 Likes

Gkam84 wrote:
enrique wrote:

My hero, Gkam! Smile I learned how to interact on the forum from him. I owe him my 'Irritability' factor! Smile God knows how he annoyed the crap out of me last year! Smile If asked, I would would accept the Gkam Memorial Award for Most Irritating Poster for 2013! Smile

Erm, thank you. I think I've got a few people interacting on the forum. When I used to raise points. It was a fairly new game and things were still getting worked out.

This is going back to 2011 and earlier.

The game is fairly settled now and I am also part of the team running it. So I can't have been that irritating Wink

Quite a number of my suggestions and comments lead to things happening, some people would improve on my original thought and Dave would then put his touch on it and enacting it into the game.

One other reason I continued to post "provocative" thoughts and statements back then was to actually get people onto the forum and chatting, it was quite a dead place back then, there were only a few of us, maybe 10 who would be using this part of the site.

Now I'm not being big headed, but I feel that the forum has steadily grown over that time and a small part of that might be down to me Nerd Nerd

So carry on making comments and suggestions, one day you might hit something that will work. But don't expect the warm loving friendly comments that normally come with the forum when you start new threads day in day out with grumbles Wink

That's my "beef" with you, not really a beef as such, but do you need to keep starting new threads?? Try and keep it contained to one Big Grin Nerd

Didn't we have an Enrique Q&A thread?

posted by ray silvester [1835 posts]
6th May 2013 - 7:42

5 Likes

Good idea Ray, he can have his own thread and he can spout off as much as he wants. Big Grin

‘It is useless to meet revenge with revenge: it will heal nothing.’

stumps's picture

posted by stumps [2751 posts]
6th May 2013 - 9:27

7 Likes

Just F Enriques's I, some info via @inrng (http://inrng.com/2013/05/giro-prizes/)

Combatitivity Prize
Unlike the Tour de France which uses a jury to arbitrarily pick the most spritely rider of the day, this award is measured via points awarded at the finish line, for intermediate sprints and for crossing mountain passes first. Again there’s a ceremony and cash prize each day with a final award on the last day for the whole race.

posted by simon F [994 posts]
7th May 2013 - 18:44

6 Likes

ray silvester wrote:
Didn't we have an Enrique Q&A thread?

Yes we did (!). Now it's just called Questions and Comments, which was it's original title... I changed it for a while... And then changed it back ! Smile

simon F wrote:
Just F Enriques's I, some info via @inrng (http://inrng.com/2013/05/giro-prizes/)

Combatitivity Prize
Unlike the Tour de France which uses a jury to arbitrarily pick the most spritely rider of the day, this award is measured via points awarded at the finish line, for intermediate sprints and for crossing mountain passes first. Again there’s a ceremony and cash prize each day with a final award on the last day for the whole race.

Wow! And I was calling it a beauty contest! Smile I stand corrected...

JAndrewHill wrote:
Viviani gets extra points for combativity and the young rider competition.

Well, (here I go again!) then I propose next year we treat it as we do the other classifications, the GC, PC, KM and YR classifications...

For example, here's today's Overall Most Combative Rider Classification:

1. Mark Cavendish 17 pts
2. Elia Viviani 16
3. Cameron Wurf 15
4. Rafael Andriato 10
5. Willem Wauters 10

Next year instead of Viviani getting 10 points for the day, I propose Cavendish get 5 pts, Viviani 4, Wurf 3, Andriato 2 and Wauters 1 (!) Smile

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posted by enrique [1747 posts]
9th May 2013 - 22:44

1 Like

Urgh... This Combativity Award really irks me... Especially since I didn't have Dowsett, Kangert, Clement or Durbridge on my team! Urgh... Phbbbbt! It's heaping points on top of points of guys who already have (!) as ton of points. I hate it! It's redundant and malicious! Angry

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posted by enrique [1747 posts]
12th May 2013 - 0:40

5 Likes

Or you could just pick the right riders.

posted by drheaton [3429 posts]
12th May 2013 - 9:35

3 Likes

drheaton wrote:
Or you could just pick the right riders.

I would need a brain transplant Plain Face

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posted by enrique [1747 posts]
12th May 2013 - 10:09

4 Likes

Only Dowsett(10pts) scored for fantasy purposes.......for me anyone riding a Giro with haemophilia should be given a combativity award!!

Chapeau Alex Cool

posted by ray silvester [1835 posts]
12th May 2013 - 11:57

8 Likes

enrique wrote:
Urgh... This Combativity Award really irks me... Urgh... Phbbbbt! It's heaping points on top of points of guys who already have (!) as ton of points. I hate it! It's redundant and malicious! Angry

I'm telling you, this Combativity Award and the damned not being able to bank transfers has really (!) done me in! I hate (!) both! Angry I'm all the way down to No. 978 in the overall, and. trust me (!) I know (!) my cycling! Blushing

drheaton wrote:
... I have one question though, did you have Cav in your team yesterday? Big Grin

enrique wrote:
I did... Big Grin

No, I didn't have Uran on my team today... Crying

Vive Le Road.cc Fantasy Cycling Game!

posted by enrique [1747 posts]
14th May 2013 - 22:02

5 Likes

Well, for what its worth I haven't banked any transfers so far and I'm in the top 100 so that's clearly not your issue. In fact I've taken about 100 points in penalty transfers.

You may know your cycling but apparently 977 people know it better than you Big Grin

Combativity is a prize which is awarded. It was in the stage listings before the race started so its not like its just been dropped in at random. Its also been there for years so its nothing new. It works in a particular way for the Giro and that's how it is. Get over it.

posted by drheaton [3429 posts]
14th May 2013 - 22:23

5 Likes

This is such an interesting topic...

daddyELVIS wrote:
Why do they always give the combativity award to a guy who breaks away at the start of the race...

drheaton wrote:
... Whatever the prize is called though it's pretty much guaranteed that, except for in exceptional circumstances, the breakaway will get it.

Well, that did not happen yesterday. Greipel got it...

drheaton wrote:
It's the one who shows the most fighting spirit, you can argue that by going for the stage win riders like Chavanel are more aggresive but you need real fighting spirit to try and sustain a break for as long as possible and try and keep the inevitable at bay...

drheaton wrote:
... The prize is so subjective...

And this from Cyclingnews.com:

cyclingnews wrote:
... Zero out of ten for judgement from L’Équipe

André Greipel (Lotto-Belisol) was a bemused recipient of the Prix de la Combativité for stage 6’s most aggressive rider. Given that there had been just one breakaway during the stage – Luis Maté’s short-lived early effort – the judges’ task was not an easy one, but L’Équipe haughtily awarded them 0/10 for their decision.

LÉquipe wrote:
“André Greipel wasn’t the most combative, he was the strongest. You shouldn’t confuse the two things, otherwise the prize would go to the winner of every stage,” ... “The most combative rider yesterday was Mark Cavendish. In the space of a few kilometres, [after his crash] he closed 40 seconds on the peloton after chasing back on through the convoy of cars.”

And, that (!) my friend, is why we should get rid of the Combativity Prize in this competition... Big Grin

Arguments will now be heard from opposing counsel... Wink

Vive Le Road.cc Fantasy Cycling Game!

posted by enrique [1747 posts]
5th July 2013 - 17:23

6 Likes

I agree that Greipel's win was a joke. Cav should have won it that day. Whether it should be ditched altogether is another matter though. Points for sprints and mountain points are enough for the break in most but not all cases. Bakelants is today's winner which makes sense and he wouldn't have got much otherwise because he went after the sprint.

posted by Alan Tullett [1455 posts]
5th July 2013 - 18:03

2 Likes

enrique wrote:
This is such an interesting topic...

daddyELVIS wrote:
Why do they always give the combativity award to a guy who breaks away at the start of the race...

drheaton wrote:
... Whatever the prize is called though it's pretty much guaranteed that, except for in exceptional circumstances, the breakaway will get it.

Well, that did not happen yesterday. Greipel got it...

drheaton wrote:
It's the one who shows the most fighting spirit, you can argue that by going for the stage win riders like Chavanel are more aggresive but you need real fighting spirit to try and sustain a break for as long as possible and try and keep the inevitable at bay...

drheaton wrote:
... The prize is so subjective...

And this from Cyclingnews.com:

cyclingnews wrote:
... Zero out of ten for judgement from L’Équipe

André Greipel (Lotto-Belisol) was a bemused recipient of the Prix de la Combativité for stage 6’s most aggressive rider. Given that there had been just one breakaway during the stage – Luis Maté’s short-lived early effort – the judges’ task was not an easy one, but L’Équipe haughtily awarded them 0/10 for their decision.

LÉquipe wrote:
“André Greipel wasn’t the most combative, he was the strongest. You shouldn’t confuse the two things, otherwise the prize would go to the winner of every stage,” ... “The most combative rider yesterday was Mark Cavendish. In the space of a few kilometres, [after his crash] he closed 40 seconds on the peloton after chasing back on through the convoy of cars.”

And, that (!) my friend, is why we should get rid of the Combativity Prize in this competition... Big Grin

Arguments will now be heard from opposing counsel... Wink

i can't really understand why you're wasting your time flogging this particular dead horse. but i guess your time is your own to waste as you see fit Thinking

Dave Atkinson's picture

posted by Dave Atkinson [7379 posts]
5th July 2013 - 18:06

2 Likes

enrique wrote:
This is such an interesting topic...

daddyELVIS wrote:
Why do they always give the combativity award to a guy who breaks away at the start of the race...

drheaton wrote:
... Whatever the prize is called though it's pretty much guaranteed that, except for in exceptional circumstances, the breakaway will get it.

Well, that did not happen yesterday. Greipel got it...

drheaton wrote:
It's the one who shows the most fighting spirit, you can argue that by going for the stage win riders like Chavanel are more aggresive but you need real fighting spirit to try and sustain a break for as long as possible and try and keep the inevitable at bay...

drheaton wrote:
... The prize is so subjective...

And this from Cyclingnews.com:

cyclingnews wrote:
... Zero out of ten for judgement from L’Équipe

André Greipel (Lotto-Belisol) was a bemused recipient of the Prix de la Combativité for stage 6’s most aggressive rider. Given that there had been just one breakaway during the stage – Luis Maté’s short-lived early effort – the judges’ task was not an easy one, but L’Équipe haughtily awarded them 0/10 for their decision.

LÉquipe wrote:
“André Greipel wasn’t the most combative, he was the strongest. You shouldn’t confuse the two things, otherwise the prize would go to the winner of every stage,” ... “The most combative rider yesterday was Mark Cavendish. In the space of a few kilometres, [after his crash] he closed 40 seconds on the peloton after chasing back on through the convoy of cars.”

And, that (!) my friend, is why we should get rid of the Combativity Prize in this competition... Big Grin

Arguments will now be heard from opposing counsel... Wink

Yeah, you're not making much sense.

My quote says that its pretty much a definite that it'll go to a break except in exceptional circumstances. Yesterday was exceptional in that there was no real break meaning it had to go to someone else. Once you remove the break from the equation the who gets it? No doubt you'd complain if Cav won it or anyone else, you just have a dislike of the prize.

Take today as an example. Bakelandts was a deserving winner of the 10 points, he was aggressive, combative and tried hard to get away.

What you're proposing is that we scrap a prize you don't like because on one stage out of 21 you don't agree with the winner.

posted by drheaton [3429 posts]
5th July 2013 - 19:40

4 Likes

drheaton wrote:
... What you're proposing is that we scrap a prize you don't like...

Pretty much. Yes! Big Grin

drheaton wrote:
... because you don't agree with the winner...

... but not because I don't agree with the winner, I just don't agree to having it be scored for the game!... I don't think anybody should get points for that!... I'd rather we get scores for the Teams Classification than that (!)... Thinking Or at least notch it down to 5 points (!)...

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posted by enrique [1747 posts]
5th July 2013 - 22:42

7 Likes

Or we keep it as no one else seems to have much of a problem with it.

Issue closed

posted by TERatcliffe26 [3962 posts]
5th July 2013 - 22:54

11 Likes

Just heard on EuroSport the whole OPQ team got the Combativity award! 10 points for every OPQ rider today? Big Grin Wow! Smile

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posted by enrique [1747 posts]
12th July 2013 - 16:07

5 Likes

not what it says on letour.fr - cav gets them unless it changes on there

Dave Atkinson's picture

posted by Dave Atkinson [7379 posts]
12th July 2013 - 16:25

8 Likes