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drheaton wrote:

Points going up, for info Cavendish was awarded most combative... for the stage so he gets another 10 points...

I don't like the Most Combative Rider Award. Everything else in the race is based on a measurement, an order, who gets there first, etc.... This one? Well, it's judged. It's awarded. Not measured. It might as well be a beauty pageant award. I think it can be a pretty subjective thing... I propose we get rid of that award next season.  1

37 comments

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chiv30 [987 posts] 3 years ago
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Why? It's no different to any other tour , it's judged by the commisaires and as such is as random as it comes .

Why is it only now you have requested not to have it? Because a sprinter has won it because of how he went hard from 500 out without a leadout train to win by half a bike length rather than a breakaway rider?

I've only been on this site since January and all I've seen you post is complaints about what YOU want from the game and yet from what I understand YOU are not playing premium?

What right do you have to try to dictate a game that you refuse to pay for?

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THE SILENT ASSASSIN [546 posts] 3 years ago
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Enrique the gripemeister strikes again....

Seriously enrique why dont you just delete yor account. You obviously get no enjoyment from the version of the game that you play,'THE FREE ONE'....

Not only do we have to listen to your weekly rant at the games rules but now you question the integrity of 'the Giro's', organising committee...Its Italy so most things Italian are corrupt, but I thought Cav was a good shout for the combativity award yesterday..

So do us all a favour and hit that delete button....Just remember that the Halfords Tour de France game will be starting soon...much more up your street...

'VIVE LA ROAD CC'....down with enrique....  37 103

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enrique [2350 posts] 3 years ago
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chiv30 wrote:

Why? It's no different to any other tour , it's judged by the commissaires and as such is as random as it comes...

Obviously, this is just my opinion, and, of course, just a suggestion...

But, this is why...

I think all the other categories are based on facts... The order you crossed a line, the order you got to the finish, the order you went over a mountain, etc...

This award feels weirdly out of place to me in what I think of as a fact or numbers driven game...

I almost feel like this is akin to playing fantasy basketball and getting points awarded to Lebron James if he is on your team because he got voted the MVP of the game...

In my mind, because he is the MVP, his stats should show how good he is without having to shower him with even more (!) points... He already outdid the competititon by outrebounding, outscoring, out-assisting, outblocking, outpassing them, and his stats should show it, why throw more points his way because he did this? It sort of becomes a one-man show, like today, and I, personally, like a game of numbers (!)... But, of course that just me! ;)...

As a rider, Cavendish already got his points by crossing the line first... why should he get more? - in the game! - because he was 'more combative'? Was he any 'more' comabtive than Viviani? Was he any 'more' combative than Wurf or Visconti today?

I don't thimk so!  1 He's just a better sprinter, has more endurance in a sprint, has better technical knowledge, or whatever reason you might care to believe! He got it done. He got the points! That's it. Let it be. No more points for Cavendish today!  1

I feel it's a little offensive to give an award like that and then reward it - in the game - with more points towards what was already an outstanding performance... I mean he got the finish line points, the PC points, the GC points, the intermediate points and then 'most combative'points? Too much, if you ask me!  1

I think I would have felt the same way if Wurf had won the stage and he got the Combativity Award! I would have been like, crap! He already won the stage, got all the breakaway points and (!) the finish line points and now he also (?) gets 'beauty' (?) points? Because he was judged (!) most combative?

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for (!) the award in the race itself! It's like a pat on the back for an exemplary show of guts and determination... I just don't like it as a point-getter in the competition and well, like the game so much (!), analytically speaking, that I love expressing my opinion about its little details and what i think should be done or would like it to be like... Regardless, it's just an opinion! A very personal one, but not an imposition!  1

chiv30 wrote:

Why is it only now you have requested not to have it?...

The truth is I had never noticed it before! I don't look that closely at all the scores and I honestly hadn't noticed we were giving points for that in the game until drheaton pointed it out on the other thread... Anyways, it's just an opinion...

For all it's worth, remember this issue from the Vuelta al Pais Vasco Stage 4 thread?

stumps wrote:

Personally i think if its a summit finish you should get KOM points, you would if it was a mountain earlier in the stage so why not here ?

I agreed then and I agree now. If it's a number or a stat, count it!  1 With this one, in my opinion, don't!

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TERatcliffe26 [4663 posts] 3 years ago
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Enrique the biggest problem is your initial expression of your opinion then, because when you first say something it comes across as 'I don't like it so we shouldn't have it' or 'I want it so we should have it'. It seems as though you express what you say is your opinion as something that is wrong or right, and if you believe it is wrong or right then thats way it should be.

The thing that is another gripe people have is you don't pay for anything (thats your choice, not saying you should), coupled with the way you come across, makes you seem ungrateful.

Why not say things like what does everyone think of this aspect of the game, im not a fan because of this reason....rather than jumping straight in with I don't like x so we should get rid of it, then when someone challenges you on it decide then that its your opinion and try to justify it etc

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chiv30 [987 posts] 3 years ago
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If you want to have any credibility you should be playing the premium , otherwise you really shouldn't be asking for game changes.

If you don't like the way it's run don't play you haven't lost anything because YOU HAVEN'T PAID TO PLAY!

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sm [395 posts] 3 years ago
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chiv30 wrote:

If you want to have any credibility you should be playing the premium , otherwise you really shouldn't be asking for game changes.

I'm not so sure this is correct, I think it's the way enrique poses his points that's the problem, pretty much as TERatcliffe highlights.

Constructive user feedback is good, whether the user is paying or not. The keyword here is constructive. I like that enrique asks questions and makes points, this is afterall a forum for debate. I don't think it's right that we attack enrique for voicing an opinion.

Enrique, take the time to read TERatcliffe's points and consider this next time you post. You'll (hopefully) find a more receptive crowd and be able to build a discussion.

Back on topic - personally I like the subjective nature of the combative award. It rewards excellence and points to an achievement that cannot be summed up simply by saying I came first, second or third. It says: today this rider was special beyond the boundaries of the race and here we honour this special effort with our judgement.

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drheaton [3318 posts] 3 years ago
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Putting aside what's been said above and getting back to the initial issue of awarding points to the 'most combative' I think you're missing the point a little bit.

You've said above that you don't think we should award the points because its not black and white like the order of finishers but the fact is, the game is a reflection of the race and as part of the race the commissaires award a prize to the person they deem to have been the most 'combative' or the most 'exciting' or whatever they judge it on. They give the award so we score it.

Its no different from mountain or sprint points which are artificial prizes given for passing an arbitrary point on the route first. And the argument that its not deserved if that person already scored loads of points doesn't wash with me either. If a rider wins a mountain stage with a lone breakaway a la Rabottini last year don't the deserve all of their mountain points as well as the finish points? The combative prize is no different.

I have one question though, did you have Cav in your team yesterday?  4

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chiv30 [987 posts] 3 years ago
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sm wrote:
chiv30 wrote:

If you want to have any credibility you should be playing the premium , otherwise you really shouldn't be asking for game changes.

I'm not so sure this is correct, I think it's the way enrique poses his points that's the problem, pretty much as TERatcliffe highlights.

In regards to that answer , read TERs 3rd paragraph , it's the exact point I was getting at.
I just put it the same way Enrique puts his opinions hoping he would see the issue clearly  3

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Stumps [3434 posts] 3 years ago
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Cav was at the front nearly all the stage marshalling his team so that the break did not get away and was still there, without his train i might add, to come through from quite a distance back for a sprinter and win against some of the form men and quickets men around at the mo.

Well done to him and for that he deserves the combativity award imho.

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enrique [2350 posts] 3 years ago
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sm wrote:

... I don't think it's right that we attack enrique for voicing an opinion....

Thanks...

sm wrote:

... Enrique, take the time to read TERatcliffe's points and consider this next time you post...

I will... Appreciate it...

sm wrote:

... I like the subjective nature of the combative award. It rewards excellence and points to an achievement that cannot be summed up simply by saying I came first, second or third. It says: today this rider was special beyond the boundaries of the race and here we honour this special effort with our judgement.

I like it, too!  1 I just think it's a lot of points for someone who probably already (!) racked up a lot of points  1

TERatcliffe26 wrote:

... Why not say things like what does everyone think of this aspect of the game... rather than jumping straight in with I don't like x so we should get rid of it...

Ok, (sigh!)  1 Let me try a different approach...  3

What do you guys think of reconsidering the points awarded for the Combativity Award and lowering it to 5 points only next year?  3

TERatcliffe26 wrote:

Enrique the biggest problem is your initial expression of your opinion then... it comes across as 'I don't like it so we shouldn't have it'...

TER, you're right... I can't help but to write things like this and then I have no idea how it comes across so arrogantly  39 I do love this game, but I am kind of unaware of how others take my tone online... It's probably a family and cultural thing... We have so many fights a day in my family it's incredible! We annoy the crap out of each other, get iritated, slap each other around and get on with it!  3 No arrogance intended, really... I guess I come from a feisty crowd!  1

drheaton wrote:

... I have one question though, did you have Cav in your team yesterday?  4

I did...  4

I also had these other idiots on my team!

Ferrari, Goss and Degenkolb... By the way, would you put your money on Goss and Degenkold making it to the end to contest Monday's stage? You think Cav, will make it?

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enrique [2350 posts] 3 years ago
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stumps wrote:

Cav was at the front nearly all the stage... to come through... and win against some of the... quickest men... Well done to him... he deserves the combativity award imho.

He does (!) deserve it, my point isn't about whether he deserves it or not, really...

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ray silvester [1836 posts] 3 years ago
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To be fair the first post doesn't demand anything....just proposes?

To be unfair enrique's profile shows him to be a New Yorker who rides 'Bikes I rent in the Park' ....nuff said  3

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ray silvester [1836 posts] 3 years ago
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enrique wrote:
sm wrote:

... I don't think it's right that we attack enrique for voicing an opinion....

Thanks...

sm wrote:

... Enrique, take the time to read TERatcliffe's points and consider this next time you post...

I will... Appreciate it...

sm wrote:

... I like the subjective nature of the combative award. It rewards excellence and points to an achievement that cannot be summed up simply by saying I came first, second or third. It says: today this rider was special beyond the boundaries of the race and here we honour this special effort with our judgement.

I like it, too!  1 I just think it's a lot of points for someone who probably already (!) racked up a lot of points  1

TERatcliffe26 wrote:

... Why not say things like what does everyone think of this aspect of the game... rather than jumping straight in with I don't like x so we should get rid of it...

Ok, (sigh!)  1 Let me try a different approach...  3

What do you guys think of reconsidering the points awarded for the Combativity Award and lowering it to 5 points only next year?  3

TERatcliffe26 wrote:

Enrique the biggest problem is your initial expression of your opinion then... it comes across as 'I don't like it so we shouldn't have it'...

TER, you're right... I can't help but to write things like this and then I have no idea how it comes across so arrogantly  39 I do love this game, but I am kind of unaware of how others take my tone online... It's probably a family and cultural thing... We have so many fights a day in my family it's incredible! We annoy the crap out of each other, get iritated, slap each other around and get on with it!  3 No arrogance intended, really... I guess I come from a feisty crowd!  1

drheaton wrote:

... I have one question though, did you have Cav in your team yesterday?  4

I did...  4

I also had these other idiots on my team!

Ferrari, Goss and Degenkolb... By the way, would you put your money on Goss and Degenkold making it to the end to contest Monday's stage? You think Cav, will make it?

Goss done alright.....could be in Pink after the TTT(although I'm still sticking with my gut feeling that it'll be Navardauskas).

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letsgoup [121 posts] 3 years ago
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I think we should award Enrique a Combativity award for being, er, combative. I love his posts. Or I love the reaction to his posts. Have you all considered he just says things to wind everyone up. He cannot be serious surley  39

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Gkam84 [9092 posts] 3 years ago
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I read this on twitter last night.....  19 19

Given up answering his question's, complaints, comments....etc. Someone go tell him to shut up ITS A GAME http://road.cc/82480 via @roadcc

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dave atkinson [6273 posts] 3 years ago
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enrique wrote:

I don't look that closely at all the scores

please.

anyway, all he's asking is if we can drop the combativity award for next year.

and the answer is no.

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superpoppet01 [2 posts] 3 years ago
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letsgoup wrote:

I think we should award Enrique a Combativity award for being, er, combative. I love his posts. Or I love the reaction to his posts. Have you all considered he just says things to wind everyone up. He cannot be serious surley  39

+1

I enjoy your threads Enrique and you are not the only one who has been known to raise the backs of other subscribers on occasion. You often raise legitimate points but I have to agree with the majority on this one - it is an official award and that should be reflected in our game, subjective or not.

The pedant inside me does request that you reduce the quotations and the icons though. You are on a rocky road to matching Gkam with his smileys and commas.

 16 7 14 20 19 4 44 26 22 2 31 1 13 39 3 37

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enrique [2350 posts] 3 years ago
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Dave Atkinson wrote:

... and the answer is no.

There. Question asked. Question answered!  1 How difficult was that?...

superpoppet01 wrote:

...  16 7 14 20 19 4 44 26 22 2 31 1 13 39 3 37

Nice!  1

superpoppet01 wrote:

... You are on a rocky road to matching Gkam with his smileys and commas.

My hero, Gkam!  1 I learned how to interact on the forum from him. I owe him my 'Irritability' factor!  1 God knows how he annoyed the crap out of me last year!  1 If asked, I would would accept the Gkam Memorial Award for Most Irrititating Poster for 2013!  1

superpoppet01 wrote:

... I enjoy your threads Enrique...

Thanks!  1

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Gkam84 [9092 posts] 3 years ago
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enrique wrote:

My hero, Gkam!  1 I learned how to interact on the forum from him. I owe him my 'Irritability' factor!  1 God knows how he annoyed the crap out of me last year!  1 If asked, I would would accept the Gkam Memorial Award for Most Irritating Poster for 2013!  1

Erm, thank you. I think I've got a few people interacting on the forum. When I used to raise points. It was a fairly new game and things were still getting worked out.

This is going back to 2011 and earlier.

The game is fairly settled now and I am also part of the team running it. So I can't have been that irritating  3

Quite a number of my suggestions and comments lead to things happening, some people would improve on my original thought and Dave would then put his touch on it and enacting it into the game.

One other reason I continued to post "provocative" thoughts and statements back then was to actually get people onto the forum and chatting, it was quite a dead place back then, there were only a few of us, maybe 10 who would be using this part of the site.

Now I'm not being big headed, but I feel that the forum has steadily grown over that time and a small part of that might be down to me  26 26

So carry on making comments and suggestions, one day you might hit something that will work. But don't expect the warm loving friendly comments that normally come with the forum when you start new threads day in day out with grumbles  3

That's my "beef" with you, not really a beef as such, but do you need to keep starting new threads?? Try and keep it contained to one  4 26

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ray silvester [1836 posts] 3 years ago
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Gkam84 wrote:
enrique wrote:

My hero, Gkam!  1 I learned how to interact on the forum from him. I owe him my 'Irritability' factor!  1 God knows how he annoyed the crap out of me last year!  1 If asked, I would would accept the Gkam Memorial Award for Most Irritating Poster for 2013!  1

Erm, thank you. I think I've got a few people interacting on the forum. When I used to raise points. It was a fairly new game and things were still getting worked out.

This is going back to 2011 and earlier.

The game is fairly settled now and I am also part of the team running it. So I can't have been that irritating  3

Quite a number of my suggestions and comments lead to things happening, some people would improve on my original thought and Dave would then put his touch on it and enacting it into the game.

One other reason I continued to post "provocative" thoughts and statements back then was to actually get people onto the forum and chatting, it was quite a dead place back then, there were only a few of us, maybe 10 who would be using this part of the site.

Now I'm not being big headed, but I feel that the forum has steadily grown over that time and a small part of that might be down to me  26 26

So carry on making comments and suggestions, one day you might hit something that will work. But don't expect the warm loving friendly comments that normally come with the forum when you start new threads day in day out with grumbles  3

That's my "beef" with you, not really a beef as such, but do you need to keep starting new threads?? Try and keep it contained to one  4 26

Didn't we have an Enrique Q&A thread?

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Stumps [3434 posts] 3 years ago
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Good idea Ray, he can have his own thread and he can spout off as much as he wants.  4

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simon F [1003 posts] 3 years ago
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Just F Enriques's I, some info via @inrng (http://inrng.com/2013/05/giro-prizes/)

Combatitivity Prize
Unlike the Tour de France which uses a jury to arbitrarily pick the most spritely rider of the day, this award is measured via points awarded at the finish line, for intermediate sprints and for crossing mountain passes first. Again there’s a ceremony and cash prize each day with a final award on the last day for the whole race.

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enrique [2350 posts] 3 years ago
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ray silvester wrote:

Didn't we have an Enrique Q&A thread?

Yes we did (!). Now it's just called Questions and Comments, which was it's original title... I changed it for a while... And then changed it back !  1

simon F wrote:

Just F Enriques's I, some info via @inrng (http://inrng.com/2013/05/giro-prizes/)

Combatitivity Prize
Unlike the Tour de France which uses a jury to arbitrarily pick the most spritely rider of the day, this award is measured via points awarded at the finish line, for intermediate sprints and for crossing mountain passes first. Again there’s a ceremony and cash prize each day with a final award on the last day for the whole race.

Wow! And I was calling it a beauty contest!  1 I stand corrected...

JAndrewHill wrote:

Viviani gets extra points for combativity and the young rider competition.

Well, (here I go again!) then I propose next year we treat it as we do the other classifications, the GC, PC, KM and YR classifications...

For example, here's today's Overall Most Combative Rider Classification:

1. Mark Cavendish 17 pts
2. Elia Viviani 16
3. Cameron Wurf 15
4. Rafael Andriato 10
5. Willem Wauters 10

Next year instead of Viviani getting 10 points for the day, I propose Cavendish get 5 pts, Viviani 4, Wurf 3, Andriato 2 and Wauters 1 (!)  1

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enrique [2350 posts] 3 years ago
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Urgh... This Combativity Award really irks me... Especially since I didn't have Dowsett, Kangert, Clement or Durbridge on my team! Urgh...  47 It's heaping points on top of points of guys who already have (!) as ton of points. I hate it! It's redundant and malicious!  14

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drheaton [3318 posts] 3 years ago
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Or you could just pick the right riders.

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enrique [2350 posts] 3 years ago
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drheaton wrote:

Or you could just pick the right riders.

I would need a brain transplant  22

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ray silvester [1836 posts] 3 years ago
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Only Dowsett(10pts) scored for fantasy purposes.......for me anyone riding a Giro with haemophilia should be given a combativity award!!

Chapeau Alex  16

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enrique [2350 posts] 3 years ago
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enrique wrote:

Urgh... This Combativity Award really irks me... Urgh...  47 It's heaping points on top of points of guys who already have (!) as ton of points. I hate it! It's redundant and malicious!  14

I'm telling you, this Combativity Award and the damned not being able to bank transfers has really (!) done me in! I hate (!) both!  14 I'm all the way down to No. 978 in the overall, and. trust me (!) I know (!) my cycling!  9

drheaton wrote:

... I have one question though, did you have Cav in your team yesterday?  4

enrique wrote:

I did...  4

No, I didn't have Uran on my team today...  20

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drheaton [3318 posts] 3 years ago
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Well, for what its worth I haven't banked any transfers so far and I'm in the top 100 so that's clearly not your issue. In fact I've taken about 100 points in penalty transfers.

You may know your cycling but apparently 977 people know it better than you  4

Combativity is a prize which is awarded. It was in the stage listings before the race started so its not like its just been dropped in at random. Its also been there for years so its nothing new. It works in a particular way for the Giro and that's how it is. Get over it.

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enrique [2350 posts] 3 years ago
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This is such an interesting topic...

daddyELVIS wrote:

Why do they always give the combativity award to a guy who breaks away at the start of the race...

drheaton wrote:

... Whatever the prize is called though it's pretty much guaranteed that, except for in exceptional circumstances, the breakaway will get it.

Well, that did not happen yesterday. Greipel got it...

drheaton wrote:

It's the one who shows the most fighting spirit, you can argue that by going for the stage win riders like Chavanel are more aggresive but you need real fighting spirit to try and sustain a break for as long as possible and try and keep the inevitable at bay...

drheaton wrote:

... The prize is so subjective...

And this from Cyclingnews.com:

cyclingnews wrote:

... Zero out of ten for judgement from L’Équipe

André Greipel (Lotto-Belisol) was a bemused recipient of the Prix de la Combativité for stage 6’s most aggressive rider. Given that there had been just one breakaway during the stage – Luis Maté’s short-lived early effort – the judges’ task was not an easy one, but L’Équipe haughtily awarded them 0/10 for their decision.

LÉquipe wrote:

“André Greipel wasn’t the most combative, he was the strongest. You shouldn’t confuse the two things, otherwise the prize would go to the winner of every stage,” ... “The most combative rider yesterday was Mark Cavendish. In the space of a few kilometres, [after his crash] he closed 40 seconds on the peloton after chasing back on through the convoy of cars.”

And, that (!) my friend, is why we should get rid of the Combativity Prize in this competition...  4

Arguments will now be heard from opposing counsel...  3

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