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Suggestions for the 2013 season
It's early, I know, but with the revival of the old suggestion thread it seems people are full of ideas on how they'd like the game to be "improved" next year!
Obviously, this is all stuff that we'd like to see, wishful thinking really, but road.cc and Dave have always listened to what people think and have implemented good suggestions in the past (regional leagues, premium membership, the removal of the varying player values etc) so if you've got an idea post it below. Think of this as the place to make your request/suggestion so that Dave can see it easily. Also, tell everyone what you think works too rather than just complaining!
Firstly off, I'd like to thank Dave for the game and strides they've made over the last few years to improve it into what is an excellent competition. I think that this years game is the best yet, the 4/5 split is a massive improvement over the old 1 GC, 1 AR ,1 KM, 1 PC and 5 DS split and allows for much more interesting team selections, likewise I think the constant rider values is something that should be kept next year as I haven't missed the old system at all.
My suggestions? Nothing major...
1) Remove the 4/5 split altogether - I'd be happy if the current system was kept but would like to see complete flexibility, the limited budgets will restrict players from having a particularly unbalanced team and it will allow for even more creative team selections, especially where there are lots of cheap stars in a race (like this years classics). For example, pretty much all the top Vuelta teams will still have 3 of Contador, Rodriguez, Froome and Valverde so the 150 credit cap will restrict the makeup of the rest of their team. However, I guess the 4/5 split does give structure and makes the game easier to get your head around when starting out (my dad really struggled when he joined for the TdF but the 4/5 split made things easier).
2) Expand on the premium membership with extra features such as combined purist team on the same account and stuff like that. I will probably pay for premium membership next year but I'd like to see some extra features being included for my money, not just extra races (which have been a bit shambolic this year and are very hard to follow).
3) Teams of teams - another possible premium feature, 9 players band together into one team of players, their scores are combined in some way (straight sum of scores, average of all 9 or maybe lose the highest and lowest and sum/average what's left) and they compete against other teams for a prize (Grand tours only maybe?). Should be fun and unpredictable, also, good for getting people to get involved on the forum.
4) Fantasy jersey competitions - another thing to aim for when playing the grand tours, a selection of jerseys awarded to winners of particular comps:
- a GC jersey awarded for whoever finishes 1st overall along with the bike, a black jersey possibly something road.cc themed.
- a points jersey based on sprint stages or combined sprint points, either whichever teams gets the most intermediate sprint and flat finish line points over a race or maybe whoever scores highest just on flat stages, based on intermediate sprints would keep it interesting throughout though as you have to keep up with breaks in the mountains.
- a mountains jersey like the points but for KoM points/mountain stages
ideally these would be biased to make it very difficult to win them whilst still playing for overall placing, ie base it heavily on breakaway points (the KoM in particular) so that you need to pick the breaks and possibly suffer in the overall as a result, that'd make it something entirely separate to aim for like the riders aim for the KoM comp sacrificing their overall standings. Moreover, these aren't big cost prizes and are just for fun/pride.
5) Reduce the penalty for making additional transfers. I like the fact that there is a penalty but 20 points is very heavy, you basically need to place in the top 4 to overcome that. 10 points might bring in more tactical use of this facility and not be so penal if someone cocks up their team and needs to sort it out.
That's mine, just to be going on with. Also, a booby prize for whoever first mentions the 'reset button'.
If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.
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198 comments
Double points for a nominated captain?
Also, one of my old ideas resurfaced the other day:
suggested again by Noriko:
Not sure how that would fit in with how the game works at the minute (in the background) but it could be fun to be a proper team manager for the season, recruiting talent in the off season and praying your cheap DSs pay off. It'd also be fun to see how managers pick their squads, whether they pick broadly across all races to have riders who'll race the classics, the grand tours, and the shorter tours (let's call that the BMC approach), or whether they load up on grand tour riders and try to win one or all the grand tours (the Sky approach), likewise, do you pick sprinters or climbers as your big budget riders? Could produce some very interesting racing.
Here's my opinion.
Make everyone go purist except for the three grand tours. The core cycling calendar should have a separate league table only of world tour events, and everything else an ancillary table, with according value of prizes awarded.
Stakes should be much, much higher for these, with two, three or four times as many points being scored in a single day.
Less for GC, and just being in a breakaway more for over the line. However, the points should be laid out thusly:
1. 100 pts
2. 60
3. 40
4. 30
5. 25
6. 20
7. 19
down to 6 points for 20th.
Mountain points should be similarly high stakes for the first 10 over the summit, sprints high also, but only for the first 5 over the line.
I think that the new lanterne rouge points work well, and would like to see more spot prizes, for example split time leaders in a TT, although I'm not quite sure how that would work, as interesting a concept it may be.
More to follow, once I've thought of it.
Everybody could have a 'palmarès' page, were any wins/podiums (stage or overall) are recorded for posterity.
Ok, how about a 'reset button'?
I win a booby prize! Yay! I just think it's the best idea out there! 
Ok, on a more serious note:
1. How about total banking of any accrued transfers? You can earn them 2 a day but use them - after you have them in your account - any day you want to until the end of the compeititon?
2. How about having 4 transfers earned on the very first day of a stage race? That way if you really screwed up your team at the beginning you won't have to spend the rest of the compeititon getting rid of any dead weight you have on your team.
3. Get rid of the 2 rider per team rule.
4. Give KoM points only to the top three riders over any mountain. Just to limit the amount of points breakaway riders get. Or, lower the points on offer for mountains.
5. Get rid of the Young Rider Jersey points.
6. Agree with the good Doctor on lowering penalty points on extra transfers to just 10 points.
7. Have unlimited transfers between all the Classics races.
8. Modify breakway points given for the Classics: I suggest only 5 points to any rider in a lead breakaway group. I also suggest that the breakway group be of up to 25 riders or less and that it have to be more than 30 seconds ahead of the peloton at half distance.
9. Give free transfers to anyone who loses a rider for any reason: abandonment, withdrawal, doping positive, anything at all!
Dont you think if these suggested changes were implemented then anyone with a basic understanding of the peleton would get similar scores all the time...In most races the original team selection is the critical one to get right...Take away the importance of this dilemma.....then you get a pretty boring game....
I think only one of these should be implemented, reducing the penalty to 10 points would largely remove the reasons behind 1 & 2 as you'd have less penalties for making more changes, on the other hand more (or more flexible) transfers would largely remove the need for 6. Implementing 2 or all 3 would probably be a step too far.
No to 3, it works and while there's no real reason to have 3 or more riders from one team it's a good restriction that I don't think needs to be removed.
4 would have no affect, the only reason breaks get more points than stage winners is because the same person goes over each climb in 1st or goes on to take the stage win. I agree it was frustrating how much points went to KoM people in the TdF but I think the Vuelta is working better.
5 - just no, I like the young rider, it gives incentive to pick random people and adds another layer of options.
Wasn't this largely implemented this year? I kind of like the limitations in place and having 2 unlimited windows in amongst the 7 classics worked better but there was still alot of questions and people confused this year, possibly something to consider.
I like the 'small break, high points' format, it rarely comes into play but it's a reward for a doomed break whereas for groups of 25+ you're in the realms of a break big enough to take the stage/classic.
And 9, I wouldn't go for this, other than it being a bugger for Dave to implement I think that it's part of the risk and you need to decide whether you replace a Bouhanni who's abandoned or whether you leave him there and keep to whatever plan you had beforehand.
Whatever changes are made the game still takes skill, extra transfers or reduced penalties for extra transfers would benefit everyone and the best players would use those tactically to do even better. I mean, at 10 points I'd have taken the hit and brought De Gendt in yesterday (I nearly considered it for 20 points) so there are ways to use these but in the end picking the right guys still needs skill.
I'm also pretty sure that 'dumbing down' was a reason against losing the 1 GC, 1 KM, 1 PC and 1 AR restrictions last year but it's actually worked really well and made the game more complex. Flexibility generally adds complexity and having +2 transfers, banking transfers or reduced cost penalty transfers would add flexibility which some players would use to their advantage.
Also, the first selection is critical but I don't like the fact that the selection for stage one (if you don't get it right) continues to punish you up until the first rest day, not picking Rodriguez for one mountain stage hurts you but you can rectify that, picking the wrong DSs sticks with you stage after stage and makes it impossible to be competitive.
drheaton the changes that you suggest would just make the game easier....and I repeat would just narrow the point difference between players.....
Your premise seems to be that giving players the chance to fix poor first stage choices would make the game easier, I say it just makes the game fairer.
If for one of the Vuelta sprint stages instead of picking Degenkolb & Davis I picked Swift and Rojas I would suffer and probably lose alot of points. That's fine, I made those choices and that's the way the game is. But the next day when we go back to the hills I can take those riders out and swap them for whoever I like. The error is fixed and it only hurt me for one stage. That's not too bad.
If for stage one I pick the wrong DSs (De Weert and Rasilla for example) given the way that races play out I have no chance to change these riders until maybe the first rest day. Not only does this hurt me for stage 1, 2, 3 etc it continues to hurt me stage after stage. So, for one stage's worth of poor picks I'm at a disadvantage for the first 7 - 10 stages. Is that fair? Yes I made those choices and I can live with being stuck with them for a stage or two but with the way the races go and the transfer limits I may not have been able to get those crap DSs out of my team until this week (without severly sacrificing points by not picking Rodriguez/Contador etc). In the end I chose to lose 40 points by taking penalty transfers.
Why is making the game farier (so that all bad picks count equally and some are not overly penal) making the game easier?
Also, if you made the right picks then you've got two more transfers or something else which will allow you to do something different and get more points. Whatever changes you make you still need to pick the right people on the right day. That won't change.
As a compromise to all the suggestions (10 point penalty transfers, more banking of transfers etc) how about we just make stage 1 (or the prologue) effectively a rest day? 4 transfers for the first stage isn't too much and the better players will use that to their advantage while the rest of us will be trying to fix our teams. In addition, that also makes each 1/3rd of the race (up to the 1st rest day, between the two rest days and after the 2nd) equal in that you go into them with 2 extra transfers.
We shall agree to differ my friend....
.....Now I need to get back to my head scratching for tomorrows stage.....tough one to call...... 
I like the idea of the jersey competition for KoM and Sprint competition.
Tend to agree with the withdrawal of the 4 star riders, 5 Domestiques structure. If we're limited by points, does this structure necessarily have to be there? Perhaps for newbies, it could be pointed out, "You may wish to choose 4 star riders and 5 domestiques, although you're not limited to this."
Is there any particular reason behind this structure?
Being given, say, 40 transfers at the beginning of GT would certainly be interesting. Current format of 2 per night works well also though. That's a tricky one to call.
I think the change to 4/5 splits was a small change from the previous year where it was 1 GC rider, 1 all-rounder, 1 climber and 1 sprinter plus 5 DSs. It was an incremental change that wasn't a massive departure from previous years.
For what's it's worth, I think the current system is infinitely better than last year and I wouldn't be particularly upset if in the end it didn't change.
Re transfers, I don't think the game would improve if we went to a 'Halfords' style transfer system where you get a batch of transfers to use over a number of days. Apart from the fact that it might hurt site traffic (as you may choose to make all your weeks transfers in one go or every few days and not be on the site every day) it'd also take some of the fun of having to change your team in small batches. Having a floating two transfers you can use at any time or something similar would be good but I don't think being given all 40 in one go would make things any better.
Well, what's wrong with getting similar scores? I think it's ok to have that!
You'll get different scores anyways (!) when you luck out and the guy you chose as your breakaway guy scores a ton of points! 
I think it makes for an exciting game, because then you have to take more risks to pull away from the 'standard' player who 'has a basic understanding of the peloton'!
I get the feeling from reading your posts, which might not be your intention, that only the people that have an 'elite' understanding of pro racing 'deserve' to win the game... But I'd rather have a playing field which can leveled more quickly by the ideas suggested above.
If you get an advantage the first day of a Grand Tour because of your knowledge of the peloton, then let everybody else 'catch-up' by changing their team. You won't lose any (!) of the points you got on the first day that everybody else didn't (!).
What the hell are you on about....Ive won at the game and I would hardly class myself as elite....The game has got me more interested in bike racing than I was before,but with a bit of homework its not exactly rocket science....The riders either have the legs on the day or they dont...I just get tired with people forever trying to tweak the game.....I say lets just play and leave it to the powers that be to move the goalposts....as Im sure that they will.....
Totally agree with you, Doc.
Again, agreed...
I still like implementing these three at the same time:
1. 4 transfers on Day 2 of a Grand Tour.
2. Accruing transfers at the rate we do right now - 2 a day - but (!) not letting them expire. If I want I should be able to bank that transfer till the day I decide to use it.
3. Lowering the penalty fee for extra transfers, though I would be ok at keeping it at 20 points - Hell! Even raising it! - if you're given No. 1 and No. 2 above.
I thought I might aswell comment. There are some awful idea's in this thread. I will not name names. But if some of those idea's were to be implemented, Its going to drive those of us who enjoy the game away.
Making it super easy. Anyone without a knowledge of cycling and having never watched a race could win.
I'm not going to contribute any of my own idea's as I feel NO need for changing much and anything that needs tweaked. I feel will be done.
What is being suggested here is almost a totally new game and format......go create it somewhere else
Hmm.
I agree.
Did we ever sort out that thing where people were picking unlisted riders to save credits for more expensive ones?
This is my first season doing fantasy cycling after being invited to join by a regular. I have to say I've loved it and it's increased my road racing knowledge no end. A big thanks to all those involved in running it. Whether I've enjoyed watching cycling more I'm not so sure as I've got a bit obsessive about the added fantasy aspect
So as for changes to the game from this season ? - my feeling is... if it ain't broke don't fix it.
I would very much welcome an inter league competition though. The small league I'm a part of is competitive but friendly. We're genuinely pleased for each other when any of us does well and it would be great if we could each contribute our scores to our own league team too and compete against other leagues. Not quite sure how would be the best way to work it though or if it would just be too hard to administer?
how about a 'league of leagues' where your average league score counts?
next year the rider values will work on a different basis and a rider's value will change between competitions, rather than being set at the start of the year. also, there'll be a more consistent base value for DSs
Something like that sounds good. I suppose it would then even out that way regardless of the size of the competing leagues? I've no idea what the average league size is? Just trying to work out if a league of 50 players would have an advantage over a league of 10 players for instance, or if it would work the other way round? I think it would probably be an even playing field if you took averages, but my maths isn't that great to know for sure.
Trust Dave and the team to make the usual PRE-season tweeks as required....Not so sure about a league of leagues....Would that stop people from gambling on stage wins in order to play a little safe at times....Just a thought...
You could borrow from fantasy football and give riders a point or two just for riding in a stage. Or a point for starting and a point for finishing.
My only gripe is the value of some riders which appear to be quite high for their actual standing in the sport.
Other than that it all seems to work very well.
LIKE
Looks like the Tour of Britain has done away with the 4/5 split
OHHH Yes i like this alot!!
yup, email going out about that.
there's only seven 'star' riders coming, we haven't made any of the uk team riders stars as we're developing a new system for rider values next season and we kind of need to start it now
good idea and one we're already working on, and not just that either...
Yeah, an excellent idea. Possibly somewhere that records your final standings in each race split by season (so you can see 2011 results, 2012 resuts etc) then you can drill down into each competition and see individual stage results.
Then a palmares section which shows good results, top 50 in stages, race overalls or anything like that.
Then a piece of code which you can copy from the site (and is dynamic so stays up to date) that you can paste into your Road.cc signature, or a signature on other forums, and shows your best results?
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