RANT ALERT - Getting fed up..

by mooleur   April 25, 2014  

I'm getting sick and tired of every reasonable debate seemingly turning into some sort of misogynistic parry of "oh, I was going to reply with something interesting but I've just realised you're that bird who likes to stick up for equal prize money - so I'm basically going to treat you with utter disdain because obviously, despite the fact that you ride for a successful women's domestic team and train for 16 hours a week and work in a highly technical role, your opinion on anything is definitely worth less than half of anything a male counterpart could come up with".

I don't mind putting up with the fact that there are a LOT of armchair pros on these forums (sorry, but we all know this is true) because it's the internet and people like to feel important. However, it seems like every 4 out of 5 in-depth threads seemingly get turned on their head by someone making the above assumption.

If one more idiot calls me "babe", "love", "sweetheart" or simply winks at my responses I will hunt them down like the rabid rats that they are.

There aren't many women on this forum, but of the ones that do use it frequently - they are knowledgeable, experienced and well known riders, and we shouldn't really have to put up with this. If it were once or twice then fine but it seems to be increasing exponentially at the moment and it's genuinely making use of this website unpleasant.

Rant over.

61 user comments

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I don't give a toss about what gender someone is, just whether they're decent people.

And frankly, the women on this forum seem (in general) to be both more knowledgeable and better adjusted people than the average guys. Me included.

posted by jacknorell [349 posts]
25th April 2014 - 13:21

7 Likes

jacknorell wrote:
I don't give a toss about what gender someone is, just whether they're decent people.

And frankly, the women on this forum seem (in general) to be both more knowledgeable and better adjusted people than the average guys. Me included.

Exactly Smile (to the first comment!)

On the second, that's kind of you! I do think everyone, male, female, in between, (mostly) have reputable areas of expertise and I like how most people have very passionate opinions and points to put across. It's good for that Smile

Merlin Cycles women's race team ~ http://www.merlincycles.com
Manx nerd peddler ~ http://mooleur.blogspot.com

mooleur's picture

posted by mooleur [542 posts]
25th April 2014 - 13:35

6 Likes

Fuck me this is a tiresome forum thread - I'm not blaming Moo, if she feels the victim of sexism on this site, then she's the victim of sexism on this site. Attempts to justify it as trolling or banter are pretty pathetic. Perhaps those bantermeisters ought to leave that shit for the sales rep meetings rather than exhibit their misogyny on a public forum?

Also, and though I try to resist picking on people's writing skills, "Northstar", your use of quotation "marks" not "only" make you look "thick" but also make me "think" you're a Daily Mail "reader". Food for "thought".

posted by bashthebox [640 posts]
25th April 2014 - 14:42

18 Likes

bashthebox wrote:
Fuck me this is a tiresome forum thread - I'm not blaming Moo, if she feels the victim of sexism on this site, then she's the victim of sexism on this site. Attempts to justify it as trolling or banter are pretty pathetic. Perhaps those bantermeisters ought to leave that shit for the sales rep meetings rather than exhibit their misogyny on a public forum?

Also, and though I try to resist picking on people's writing skills, "Northstar", your use of quotation "marks" not "only" make you look "thick" but also make me "think" you're a Daily Mail "reader". Food for "thought".

In all fairness you lost your right to comment with your opening two words....

posted by chiv30 [865 posts]
25th April 2014 - 14:53

3 Likes

posted by allez neg [4 posts]
25th April 2014 - 15:07

1 Like

stumps wrote:
I maybe wrong and no doubt people will tell me so but i think mooleur put the bit in about racing etc to let people know she does know a thing or two about bikes and racing and is not just making wild sweeping statements with no prior knowledge, which to be honest happens quite regularly on this forum.

If anyone is sad enough to pick faults purely because the poster is female then they can crawl back under the stone they came from.

+1 - well, put Stumps, no need to say more.

OldRidgeback

posted by OldRidgeback [2195 posts]
25th April 2014 - 15:24

11 Likes

But why oh why oh why is there a gavel?

Gavels have never been used in British courts......

posted by farrell [1415 posts]
25th April 2014 - 15:35

5 Likes

Oh dear. It seems to me that Mooleur got up this morning and was disappointed to find there was no posts relating to female issues or a proper sexist argument to be had anywhere ... so she thought she'd start one of her own.

Then she had an enjoyable few hours responding to the daft few who took her bait.

posted by Joeinpoole [255 posts]
25th April 2014 - 16:49

4 Likes

Joeinpoole wrote:
Oh dear. It seems to me that Mooleur got up this morning and was disappointed to find there was no posts relating to female issues or a proper sexist argument to be had anywhere ... so she thought she'd start one of her own.

Then she had an enjoyable few hours responding to the daft few who took her bait.

Yes. That's definitely what I set out to do with my day. Confused

Merlin Cycles women's race team ~ http://www.merlincycles.com
Manx nerd peddler ~ http://mooleur.blogspot.com

mooleur's picture

posted by mooleur [542 posts]
25th April 2014 - 17:28

5 Likes

Understand exactly where you're coming from, Moo; it's a familiar story. Frankly, it's emblematic of attitudes that, depressingly, still exist throughout many levels of cycling. I have to believe we'll get there. Eventually...

posted by spin sugar [33 posts]
25th April 2014 - 18:30

2 Likes

Moo honey, you can hunt me down anytime.

Just be aware that once you catch me, I'll sit on your wheel for the rest of the day Big Grin

Gentlemen, please remember that the ladies on here are as proficient in most aspects of cycling as most of the guys are. Don't go out of your way to be patronising or sexist.

My eyes prefer Celeste, my bum prefers titanium.

Jack Osbourne snr's picture

posted by Jack Osbourne snr [304 posts]
25th April 2014 - 19:52

4 Likes

Haha, aw cheers! you're more than welcome to sit on any time dude, good TT practise, do like the hard work, me Smile

Thanks spin and jack. As it's been said, it's getting there, everyone's learning more and more and it's obviously an adjustment process as the women's side of the sport grows, sometimes there are dinosaurs lurking and eventually those will subside. Smile

Merlin Cycles women's race team ~ http://www.merlincycles.com
Manx nerd peddler ~ http://mooleur.blogspot.com

mooleur's picture

posted by mooleur [542 posts]
25th April 2014 - 20:57

4 Likes

I'm just gonna get out of the way, and hope Moo (and the other lady posters and columnists) keeps doing what she's doing, and as awesomely as she does already. World needs more women on bikes, in and out of competitive cycling.

posted by Argos74 [290 posts]
26th April 2014 - 6:04

5 Likes

as I see it, any right thinking person knows who feels threatened in this thread, and it ain't the OP.

More power to you Mooleur, you have them scared, don't worry about the odd daft post, as someone who was a crap amateur 25 years ago, I'm always interested in hearing from those employed in serious modern day competition, regardless of gender.

There are eejits in all sports and walks of life, including those who live on the internet.

All Campag

posted by Flying Scot [531 posts]
26th April 2014 - 9:13

7 Likes

mooleur wrote:
There aren't many women on this forum, but of the ones that do use it frequently - they are knowledgeable, experienced and well known riders,

Hi Mooleur, I suspect that the above may be the issue rather than your gender, you see most of us are just opinionated knobheads on bikes. Myself I'm a pro mechanic but I don't come on here for serious technical discussion, just light hearted banter and the odd rant, loosely based around cycling.

posted by drfabulous0 [316 posts]
26th April 2014 - 11:19

3 Likes

And what the fuck was that all about I ask myself???
Someone has forgotten that its only an internet forum and as such totally irrelevant in life! REMEMBER
Calm down its only an internet forum Cool

posted by sodit [68 posts]
26th April 2014 - 15:14

3 Likes

Quote:
On another note if you dont like using the website then dont , its like every other internet page or forum people make a choice if you choose to read something and you dont like it time and again then why come back?

Do people still think that this is a valid response or defence in order to excuse offensive or unacceptable behaviour?

KalaBlinds 'cos we all need our beauty sleep.

posted by don simon [146 posts]
26th April 2014 - 15:57

6 Likes

don simon wrote:
Quote:
On another note if you dont like using the website then dont , its like every other internet page or forum people make a choice if you choose to read something and you dont like it time and again then why come back?

Do people still think that this is a valid response or defence in order to excuse offensive or unacceptable behaviour?

I wasn't using it to excuse any behaviour I was making a statement and I'll hold to it , if you as an adult make a choice you are the only person responsible for your actions.

So yes it's a valid response

posted by chiv30 [865 posts]
26th April 2014 - 21:01

1 Like

You've dished your crap out on me because I don't hold your opinion on drug use, and I've just seen you do it to some guy because he disagreed with your opinion on aero dynamics. You seem to think that as a 'pro' women's rider that does make your responses gospel, but it is clear that you are not an expert and know no better (usually less so) than many others. There are some people on here who do know what they are talking about, but I can't say you're one of them.

posted by Colin Peyresourde [1120 posts]
26th April 2014 - 22:40

3 Likes

northstar wrote:
fukawitribe wrote:
mooleur wrote:
Anyway, back to the thread please - shouldn't you be fishing on the fantasy threads?

It's lunchtime - maybe enrique let him out for an hour or two...

LOL, oh look, another fan club member has turned up : )

Is that all you have "internet warrior"?

Yes, I've noticed her groupies too. They don't seem to have their own opinion most of the time.

posted by Colin Peyresourde [1120 posts]
26th April 2014 - 22:43

3 Likes

Colin Peyresourde wrote:
You've dished your crap out on me because I don't hold your opinion on drug use, and I've just seen you do it to some guy because he disagreed with your opinion on aero dynamics. You seem to think that as a 'pro' women's rider that does make your responses gospel, but it is clear that you are not an expert and know no better (usually less so) than many others. There are some people on here who do know what they are talking about, but I can't say you're one of them.

Excuse me firstly I've simply returned to you the "crap" you've already dished.

I'm not 'pro' at all, not sure where you've got that from.

I couldn't care less if people disagree with me in fact I enjoy a good debate but when people use personal insults to get further in an argument, and use sexist and abusive language simply to make themselves feel bigger then quite frankly I find that offensive.

Also, I have to call pot kettle here Colin, you're the one that insulted not just I when we disagreed with you regarding doping.

Merlin Cycles women's race team ~ http://www.merlincycles.com
Manx nerd peddler ~ http://mooleur.blogspot.com

mooleur's picture

posted by mooleur [542 posts]
27th April 2014 - 7:27

3 Likes

And for those of you that think this isn't a problem on this site, I direct you to the ladies top review that gathered a barrage of insults on the woman's looks rather than critique on the product itself. And the subsequent blog post that one of the lasses on here about his very issue.

It was seemingly swept under the carpet and again these attitudes have reared their ugly heads. It's unacceptable. "Internet banter" is not the same thing as belittling someone because of their gender.

Merlin Cycles women's race team ~ http://www.merlincycles.com
Manx nerd peddler ~ http://mooleur.blogspot.com

mooleur's picture

posted by mooleur [542 posts]
27th April 2014 - 7:31

7 Likes

I don't deny insulting you, but not based on gender. I'm not saying that it is OK to demean someone based on their sex. But you do have a very confrontational style about your posts and I feel like you were attacking me and not my opinions. I'm sure others feel the same.

It's interesting that you say that you are not a pro, because in our argument you seemed to be suggesting you had the inside line on it, coupled with your connection to a team you race with on the blog you so proudly display on your profile. You drop names and connections at the drop of a hat and back all your statements up by the connections.

If I return to the doping situation you basically put me down because 'you knew better' than me and kept putting words into my mouth. I have no affiliation to Sky or any other team, but what I do have is a layman's interest in doping. I read up around the subject and have tried to understand how this affects not only cycling but other sports. It is everywhere and it is a problem which Sports bodies cannot hope to deal with. As soon as they find a test, or legislate against one process, the dopers find another way. My interest stems more from how Armstrong was able to cheat his way to success, but I have realised that the tests are fundamentally flawed. Horner's success last year should prove to you that doping is still rife, just usually not done as blatantly and I would imagine in some cases it is done so riders can stay riding and not specifically aimed at cheating. But don't tell me that doping doesn't go on, because this is not the experience of the WADA.

posted by Colin Peyresourde [1120 posts]
27th April 2014 - 9:22

1 Like

Colin Peyresourde wrote:
Horner's success last year should prove to you that doping is still rife, just usually not done as blatantly and I would imagine in some cases it is done so riders can stay riding and not specifically aimed at cheating. But don't tell me that doping doesn't go on, because this is not the experience of the WADA.

You have the inside track on this based on...what? Where's the proof?
Not saying it isn't possible/probable, but you do sound like a conspiracy theorist some of the time.

posted by ficklewhippet [40 posts]
27th April 2014 - 11:05

2 Likes

Wink

posted by Lost faith in t... [119 posts]
27th April 2014 - 12:28

2 Likes

Colin Peyresourde wrote:
northstar wrote:
fukawitribe wrote:
mooleur wrote:
Anyway, back to the thread please - shouldn't you be fishing on the fantasy threads?

It's lunchtime - maybe enrique let him out for an hour or two...

LOL, oh look, another fan club member has turned up : )

Is that all you have "internet warrior"?

Yes, I've noticed her groupies too. They don't seem to have their own opinion most of the time.

What on earth are you talking about ? I am a groupie am I... and what, pray, do you base that on ? As for opinion, I probably have too much of that, including those contrary to you in the past Colin, and get pulled up on it when deserved - so at least in my case, please don't start throwing insults about based on fantasy.

fukawitribe's picture

posted by fukawitribe [388 posts]
27th April 2014 - 15:47

2 Likes

Colin Peyresourde wrote:
But don't tell me that doping doesn't go on, because this is not the experience of the WADA.

I don't think i've seen a single post in reply to you that has said that doping doesn't go on - what I have seen is that some people maintain that it is not the vast majority of riders doing so, that some teams are actually trying to ensure their riders aren't doing so and that success is not necessarily a positive indicator of it either - a position you often seem at odds with.

fukawitribe's picture

posted by fukawitribe [388 posts]
27th April 2014 - 15:51

2 Likes

Colin Peyresourde wrote:
I don't deny insulting you, but not based on gender. I'm not saying that it is OK to demean someone based on their sex. But you do have a very confrontational style about your posts and I feel like you were attacking me and not my opinions. I'm sure others feel the same.

It's interesting that you say that you are not a pro, because in our argument you seemed to be suggesting you had the inside line on it, coupled with your connection to a team you race with on the blog you so proudly display on your profile. You drop names and connections at the drop of a hat and back all your statements up by the connections.

If I return to the doping situation you basically put me down because 'you knew better' than me and kept putting words into my mouth. I have no affiliation to Sky or any other team, but what I do have is a layman's interest in doping. I read up around the subject and have tried to understand how this affects not only cycling but other sports. It is everywhere and it is a problem which Sports bodies cannot hope to deal with. As soon as they find a test, or legislate against one process, the dopers find another way. My interest stems more from how Armstrong was able to cheat his way to success, but I have realised that the tests are fundamentally flawed. Horner's success last year should prove to you that doping is still rife, just usually not done as blatantly and I would imagine in some cases it is done so riders can stay riding and not specifically aimed at cheating. But don't tell me that doping doesn't go on, because this is not the experience of the WADA.

Colin I never once said you've insulted me based on gender. If my posts ever seem confrontational it's probably for a reason, as most of the time I try to keep them neutral and informative. If you disagree with things I have to say then that's fine, this is where debate takes place, it shouldn't be a problem - until personal insults start being thrown around.

Many friends of mine are professional, I'm friends with coaches of professionals, it sort of comes with the territory of being part of a community such as the racing one, so there's your inside line. I ride for a domestic team, we aren't paid for this, we're sponsored, but we we have to work/study we have to fund this ourselves. I back up my statements because for some reason those statements are never taken seriously, there's nothing wrong with citation if it's required. There's also nothing wrong with being proud of being part of a team, or blogging about it!

On the doping conversation, if I recall it was you who initially put me down based on your disagreement of my stance on it.

I don't disagree doping goes on but as others have said some of us have different opinions on the matter.

This threads about the apparent issue with sexism from some site users, something I don't think you have played a part in - while you do like to argue about doping, granted, I don't think your attitude comes across in any way sexist. So it's honestly fine, carry on, even carry on with the personal insults if you like. I honestly couldn't give a monkeys about Horner either, sorry. Sad

Merlin Cycles women's race team ~ http://www.merlincycles.com
Manx nerd peddler ~ http://mooleur.blogspot.com

mooleur's picture

posted by mooleur [542 posts]
28th April 2014 - 11:20

4 Likes

Apologies for some of those sentences making no grammatical sense whatsoever. It's Monday and I'm extremely tired.

Merlin Cycles women's race team ~ http://www.merlincycles.com
Manx nerd peddler ~ http://mooleur.blogspot.com

mooleur's picture

posted by mooleur [542 posts]
28th April 2014 - 11:25

1 Like

If you can argue (with evidence) that you get a smaller % of the revenue than the competitors in the male tour I'll willingly join your equal rights crusade. However if you get a similar (%) slice of a smaller pie mainly because women's competitive cycling generates less revenue then I'd suggest you focus on how you can market women's sport cycling and raise it's value.

You seem to want equal pay under unequal market conditions which isn't going to be sustainable.

The plans and purse for the final stage of the Women's TDF are a step in the right direction, and the value of the Women's Tour on that final day is probably great for sponsors TV etc. I notice the prize money isn't similar for the other days of the Women's Tour, but then how many will watch the women's coverage every day this time around? A chance to capture more viewers and something to build on maybe?

posted by Wrongfoot [30 posts]
1st May 2014 - 22:22

2 Likes