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forum
Road Rage - Why do Motorists Hate Cyclists?
A couple of other threads on the Forum are talking about road rage incidents. I am asking the fundamental question - Why Road Rage?
A popular psychology book from the local library gives some insights.
Outgroups - an outgroup is a group of people to which you do not belong. People tend to make generalisations which they then apply to the group as a whole, for example, (All) Muslims are terrorists, wfe beaters, etc (Not True). Cyclists are reckless, law breakers and they ride through red lights. Vegetarians are an outgroup (Thanks Ian Walker) but nobody really hates them, though they are a pain when they come round for dinner. So there must be other factors.
Free Riders - Altruistic punishment - This is probably best explained by an example. You go to watch a cricket match. The match has just started, it's a lovely sunny day and you are sitting down with a pack of sandwiches and a can of beer when a guy climbs over the fence and sits next to you. It should not be a problem, he's done nothing to detract from your experience, but many people would get a steward to eject the wrongdoer. This is altruistsic punishment, in order to get your version of justice done you have missed a bit of the match.
Cyclists don't pay Road Tax (OK it's VED), have no training, don't have to take a test or hold a license. They have no insurance. They don't have to buy expensive highly taxed (79% tax) fuel. They don't pay for parking but they cause congestion.
Cyclists Ignore the Highway Code, Redlights, Oneway streets, Footpaths, Etc... They are inconsiderate, Ride in the middle of the road, two abreast, cause delays. They jump queues, are inconsiderate and aggressive.
However, Cyclists are Fitter, Healthier and place Fewer demands on the NHS. They Don't pollute, Use fewer resources .They take up less road space, and Don't damage the roads. More reasons to hate them. They are a load of Smug, Sanctimonious bastards.
Every group or society has it's laws, rules, traditions and manners and people who do not conform are punished.
From (some) motorists viewpoint - Cyclists don't pay or contribute to use the infrastructure, they abuse the privilege and break the laws - They should be punished for the good of society.
If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.
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134 comments
I always wondered why the very weird Lynchian version was never released on multiple director's cut.
I read all of the books during my first period of unemployment, from the library. I thought they went downhill a bit after the first few.
Original trilogy are good; God Emperor is OK; I truly hated everything after that... And don't get me started on all those prequel novels!
(I hope the new film is good- I really want it to be! - and I want ornithopters which flap! None of that fixed wing heresy...)
I believe they do flap in the new film,but I fear it will still sadly go into the history of failed adaptations.Because the book was split into two parts to film it, anticipating positive box office returns from part1,to get part2 made,. But that was before cinemas were forced to shut for a whole year, and the film is now being released on streaming services,even if cinemas reopen and show it, it will completely trash its financial viability,because streaming services dont report viewing numbers,just total subscribers,and dont pay box office style returns, no streaming service could afford to fund $165million to make a film from $15 a month subs
Lynch considered the film to be his only failure and didn't want much more to do with it.
I think I got as far as Children of Dune and got bored with the series but that was a long time ago. I did re-watch the film last year and it's quite bad really and would be difficult to follow without knowing the book. I didn't remember it being that cheesy.
Because the reaction to the film they originally released,which you can debate about who was to blame, was so poor,it put Lynch off ever wanting to have anything to do with it ever again, note he worked with De Laurentiis again so it's not he fell out with the studio/producers about it.
But even now I think Lynch refuses to discuss it,at least in any detail,in interviews.Plus even if he wanted to we are also at the stage where the original footage from the film no longer exists fully, either lost in a Raiders style warehouse somewhere or more likely just left to rot on a shelf and has been destroyed by neglect, or fire.
When does the ban on H8 number plates come in?
"The Free-rider problem" ( not what you think) is the problem.
A brilliant essay written on your side of the pond answers (I think) the question.
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20130212-why-you-really-hate-cyclists
Excellent article which seems to hit the nail on the head. In fact, taking its example of the person who climbs over the fence to get into a footy match for free, it's as if they were sat in front of you as well, spoiling your view of the game. That will be the perspective of the motorist held up by a "free-rider" cyclist.
Get out of my way - can't you see how busy and important I am?
I think smiffi has a point.
I think it's very important for cyclists to get out of the way of motorists when outside of urban areas, because they are clearly therefore not utility cycling but are just cycling recreationally.
I think, therefore, as an Absolute Priority we need to get these Evil Cyclists off of the roads.
And therefore, I think we need to make all non-urban roads one-way.
One lane of every two-lane non-urban roadway can be made into a dedicated cycle lane. The cars can have the other lane.
Problem sorted
The minority of motorists who hate cyclists tend to be vocal. I come across them from time to time as I'm sure all of us do. They seem to be angry and unhappy people who want to take out their aggression on someone, anyone. They aren't allowed to be sexist, homophobic or racist (outwatrdly at least) so they take it out on cyclists, as that's still allowed. While it's not quite so common, I sometimes get the same kind of hate from motorists if I'm on my motorbike.
I'm not so sure. I think that for every motorist that does a punishment pass there are another nine sitting in their cars muttering about "bloody cyclists".
Indeed. Whereas people at work will nod sympathetically when you describe a pretty egregious close pass, they'll then say "but y'gotta admit, cyclists.... rhubarb, BS, taking up road, squit, red lights, quack, road tax"
Yep, there is that sadly.
What about Janet Street-Porter - she's allowed to be sexist and still takes it out on cyclists, though she usually combines the two.
Motorists don't hate cyclists any more than a traffic jam or anything causing delays.
The extreme is merely discrimination projected by some, formed by past experiences and heresay by a small percentage.
In different little towns, villages and some cities people will have alternative mindsets affected by the local exposure to news, demographic, education, support and so on.
No doubt there are places and areas with real venom and hatred between the two sets because of the reasons above. But outside of those. It's just people riding a bike or car. Noone cares or is impressed with the car crew or bikes. It's not motorists and cyclist's. It's just transport chosen depending on the circumstances.
However, everyone does enjoy a good Vs evil fight
#notallmotorists eh?
I think anyone who frequently rides a bike anywhere in the UK will experience gratuitous aggression from motorists. Yes it rare but it does exist.
Not that rare ime
I was thinking about this yesterday when I drive its exceedingly rare to experience/witness road rage,but if I ride my bike it's a rare ride where nothing of note ever happens,theres always something even if it could be counted as micro aggression,so I'm literally experiencing road rage directed at me for purely being a cyclist, I'm not riding in a particular way that encourages or provokes this, every ride.
I've never had anyone spit at me for just driving through the village they live in, I cant say the same for cycling through unfortunately.
I had a classic example of a motorist hating me (a cyclist) as opposed to the traffic a couple of years ago.
I was commuting home along the A370 dual carriageway in Weston-super-Mare and as sometimes happens, the traffic had got backed up all the way from the M5 junction, so both lanes were full of stationary cars and trucks. I was happily filtering between the two lanes and some old codger shouted at me that I had to use the cycle lane instead as he'd paid lots of tax money to build it. Now, that had zero to do with me holding up traffic as clearly I was making progress and it was the traffic holding me up. Anyhow, I stopped and shouted "your ignorance is showing" at him and after a bit more shouting, I just went on my way, leaving him still fuming in his traffic jam.
I've yet to see the same level of outrage when the hold up is caused by
inconsiderate parking
Horses
Learner drivers
Refuse Collection
far too many cars on the road
crashes caused by fuckwits
Clearly, the time a few of them take to "engage" with a cyclist suggests it's not about their being in a hurry to get somewhere. We're being "taught a lesson" in whatever it is.
As someone who cycles only to take responsibility for my long term health and not burden the NHS with my long term care for for cardiac disease, I totally do not accept that is some frivolous recreation that should not impair the important motor vehicle travel going on around me. I absolutely do pay for road maintenance through taxation, though a bicycle clearly does little damage to the road. Every motor vehicle user has a legal and insurance contractual obligation to drive with due care and attention, including not to endanger vulnerable road users (Highway Code/Law) and is supposed to have met a minimum standard of competence. Since I'm a driver (IAM) and qualified Pilot, I know that safety is possible, we just have chosen not to bother.
The sooner we get humans out of controlling motor vehicles the better.
Better safety, better sustainability, better use of scarce resources, and better air to breathe.
I would argue that a person who road rages at a cyclist would road rage at anything that causes them to slow down or have to do more then drive. They are in a car to go fast so don't like it if they can't.
For example, near me a main dual carriageway next to an Asda and traffic island is being worked on and the main lanes on have been reduced to one lane. The supermarket means it gets very busy in the best of times but now the traffic is backed up several hundred yards up. When I was filtering down the traffic before the single lane kicked in you had people swapping lanes left and right to save 2 seconds here or there. However you also had cars mounting the central reservation to go a different route even though they would have to go miles out of their way to avoid the island if going straight on. Although I did laugh my head off as a Mercedes AMG 63 decided to try that and got stuck as the engine at the front meant his rear wheels were lifted and slipping on the grass and had no grip, the state of the reservation today looks like a grass rally had taken place with large divots left all over the place. Whilst not all of those are classic examples of road rage, the fact that drivers were risking their cars mechanically and there lives and the lives of others is a road rage at being stuck in a queue. They would also be likely to have a go at a cyclist for filtering past something they are stuck in.
Let me fix that for you, "swapping lanes left and right in an attempt to save 2 seconds here or there". When i've been driving behind a driver that does that, and I stay in the same lane, it is pretty rare that I don't end up in front of them.
Because they dont have insurance so 'who will pay for my motor' is what I have just read.
My theory is that cyclists can represent a challenge to negotiate safely. The skills required include; observation, anticipation, forward planning, self control and vehicle handling (braking, accelerating, steering, changing gear).
Humans have a tendancy to over estimate our own abilities, not just when it comes to driving, though that activity does seem to generate some particularly strong self delusion of ability. Hence when a driver finds themselves in a situation that they have failed to deal with properly it has to be the other party at fault. Some of us learn from those experiences and statistically become safer drivers. Some of us are unable to learn and fail to modify our own behaviour. The next time we are presented with a similar situation we are more likely to become irritated with the cause of the problem as we see it. Sometimes annoyed enough to lash out using the closest weapon available.
1. AKA driving, like your instructor taught you all those years ago.
2. So true.
I think part of this is driven by people whose lives are just one continuing round of "now what?" chaos, as they they lurch from one crisis to the next with no scope to reflect, learn, work out a different strategy.
people have referred to a modern car being less "engaging" to drive. I wonder if the some of the missing engagement is between driver and the cost of the vehicle and its upkeep. I would have also said fuel, but as the UK is like the most expensive place in the solar system to drive, I assume drivers drive with economy in mind.
my car is an automatic, with a simple cruise control - on a motorway, all I have to do in theory is steer. Am I more safe (e.g. less fatigued) or less, because I'm more likely to doze off?
do you think this person falls under the category?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlX-nTo99cE
Seems to forget the identity people place in their cars. Having a car is social status, and bigger faster more aggressive costlier vehicles increase your status.
Having to slow down, take care of someone of clearly lower status or even worse watch them sail past whilst you're stuck in a queue of similar hi status people is more than some can bear
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