The Pix backpack with animated turn signals is crowdfunding on Kickstarter

Mungecrundle wrote:

Hope you have a stock of squirel imagery handy. I have a feeling this one will run. Personally, if I'm sure there is no other traffic / pedestrians / other road users around then I don't signal, if I'm not sure then I give myself a mental kick up the arse about paying attention and check again.

I'm confident that my stock of squirrel images will not be exhausted any time soon.

I forgot to mention in previous post that it's a false dichotomy between thinking and indicating. I'm all for drivers thinking and observing, but the important point is what happens when mistakes are made (we all make mistakes from time to time). I think it's complete hubris to assume that if you don't think someone is around that they are not around.

There's also reaction times to consider. If a motorist is about to do a maneouvre and there's no-one around, they might decide to not indicate. Imagine then, that a cyclist comes racing out of a one-way side road (the motorist didn't realise that there's a bike lane going the opposite direction along that side road) and is about to go right into the motorist's path. How long does it take for the motorist to react to the cyclist and then start indicating and then for the cyclist to react to the indicating? Compare to the situation when the motorist was already indicating "just in case".

I cannot think of any instance when not indicating provides any benefit (except when your indicators have been wired into your fuel tank).

vonhelmet wrote:

But would you rather deal with, say, a driver who always looked in their mirrors and around them but never indicated, or one who always indicated but never looked?

I’m not saying you shouldn’t indicate, I’m just saying that if you’re indicating without thinking about what you’re actually doing and why, then you’re not really driving very well.

After all, it makes no sense to indicate when you’re moving off from the roadside if you’ve looked in your mirrors and there is no one behind to see you. Conversely, I am sure we will all have encountered drivers who stick an indicator on and pull out even though you’re right there. Sure, they indicated, but they clearly weren’t thinking about what was actually going on or they wouldn’t have moved.

Worth remembering that it goes mirror, signal, manouver. Also worth remembering that use of indicators in the Highway Code is a should, not a must. Finally, the IAM will also reportedly fail you for indicating when no one is around to see it.

Personally, I'd rather deal with motorists that always signal as in general motorists have poor visibility, so at least I'll have a good chance of knowing what they are planning to do.

If you consider when someone pulls off from the roadside, if a cyclist is in their blindspot, then they'll just pull straight out in front of the cyclist with no warning. However, if the same driver just indicates as a matter of course, then the cyclist has a chance to brake and react.

Also, consider if a motorist is going relatively slowly (15mph) along a residential road and wants to turn right. They check their mirror, but unfortunately don't spot a faster cyclist going to overtake them (again, in their blindspot perhaps). The car turns right and squishes the cyclist. Alternatively, the un-thinking driver indicates anyway and a mistake is not compounded by arrogance.

I think you'll find that it should be mirror, signal, mirror, maneouvre.

The Highway Code should be updated to make indicating a "must" and IAM should change their policy on indicating as there are clearly instances when people are not making the right choices when driving.

Deeferdonk wrote:

Do you think someone could invent an indicator system for cars that drivers actually used?

Some of them are taught to not indicate unless they can see who they're indicating for.

hawkinspeter wrote:

Deeferdonk wrote:

Do you think someone could invent an indicator system for cars that drivers actually used?

Some of them are taught to not indicate unless they can see who they're indicating for.

You should be thinking sufficiently when driving to determine whether it makes sense to indicate. After all, if there’s no one else around, or only drivers in front but not behind, why indicate? It makes no sense. To do it automatically suggests you aren’t thinking about what you’re doing any more than someone who never indicates.

vonhelmet wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

Deeferdonk wrote:

Do you think someone could invent an indicator system for cars that drivers actually used?

Some of them are taught to not indicate unless they can see who they're indicating for.

You should be thinking sufficiently when driving to determine whether it makes sense to indicate. After all, if there’s no one else around, or only drivers in front but not behind, why indicate? It makes no sense. To do it automatically suggests you aren’t thinking about what you’re doing any more than someone who never indicates.

Almost word-for-word what my driving instructor said to me.

To which I replied 'if I was omniscient I wouldn't be taking driving lessons'. Almost word-for-word.

davel wrote:

vonhelmet wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

Deeferdonk wrote:

Do you think someone could invent an indicator system for cars that drivers actually used?

Some of them are taught to not indicate unless they can see who they're indicating for.

You should be thinking sufficiently when driving to determine whether it makes sense to indicate. After all, if there’s no one else around, or only drivers in front but not behind, why indicate? It makes no sense. To do it automatically suggests you aren’t thinking about what you’re doing any more than someone who never indicates.

Almost word-for-word what my driving instructor said to me. To which I replied 'if I was omniscient I wouldn't be taking driving lessons'. Almost word-for-word.

To me, the point of having recommended ways of doing things is to reduce the impact of mistakes, whereas the "only indicate when it makes sense" does the opposite of this. As a cyclist I'd much rather that motorists indicate whenever they are doing a maneouvre (though not when it is ambiguous or misleading) including pulling out from a parking space or driveway.

vonhelmet wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

Deeferdonk wrote:

Do you think someone could invent an indicator system for cars that drivers actually used?

Some of them are taught to not indicate unless they can see who they're indicating for.

You should be thinking sufficiently when driving to determine whether it makes sense to indicate. After all, if there’s no one else around, or only drivers in front but not behind, why indicate? It makes no sense. To do it automatically suggests you aren’t thinking about what you’re doing any more than someone who never indicates.

One kind of collision is the "SMIDSY".  Indicating when you don't think there's anyone around may help them* to mitigate your mistake.

*The Y in SMIDSY.

vonhelmet wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

Deeferdonk wrote:

Do you think someone could invent an indicator system for cars that drivers actually used?

Some of them are taught to not indicate unless they can see who they're indicating for.

You should be thinking sufficiently when driving to determine whether it makes sense to indicate. After all, if there’s no one else around, or only drivers in front but not behind, why indicate? It makes no sense. To do it automatically suggests you aren’t thinking about what you’re doing any more than someone who never indicates.

I have a pet hate as a pedestrian: waiting to cross a side road, deciding whether or not to cross, when the car coming toward me on the main road doesn’t bother to indicate a left turn because there are no other cars that they can see.  Pedestrians are also counted as road users, I believe.

brooksby wrote:

vonhelmet wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

Deeferdonk wrote:

Do you think someone could invent an indicator system for cars that drivers actually used?

Some of them are taught to not indicate unless they can see who they're indicating for.

You should be thinking sufficiently when driving to determine whether it makes sense to indicate. After all, if there’s no one else around, or only drivers in front but not behind, why indicate? It makes no sense. To do it automatically suggests you aren’t thinking about what you’re doing any more than someone who never indicates.

I have a pet hate as a pedestrian: waiting to cross a side road, deciding whether or not to cross, when the car coming toward me on the main road doesn’t bother to indicate a left turn because there are no other cars that they can see.  Pedestrians are also counted as road users, I believe.

Me too.

Again, some motorists might have forgotten to include pedestrians in their "targets" to indicate to. It's another situation where indicating by default is beneficial.

brooksby wrote:

vonhelmet wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

Deeferdonk wrote:

Do you think someone could invent an indicator system for cars that drivers actually used?

Some of them are taught to not indicate unless they can see who they're indicating for.

You should be thinking sufficiently when driving to determine whether it makes sense to indicate. After all, if there’s no one else around, or only drivers in front but not behind, why indicate? It makes no sense. To do it automatically suggests you aren’t thinking about what you’re doing any more than someone who never indicates.

I have a pet hate as a pedestrian: waiting to cross a side road, deciding whether or not to cross, when the car coming toward me on the main road doesn’t bother to indicate a left turn because there are no other cars that they can see.  Pedestrians are also counted as road users, I believe.

I get this a lot, actually.

It doesn't help that I'm about half the height of an average pedestrian, what with the wheelchair and all.

If this happens when I'm halfway through a crossing, and they get arsey about my being there, I bring my 'chair to a complete stop, twist to face them, hold my hands up on an invisible wheel, and pointedly move my left hand as though actuating an indicator.

They usually get the point and oh, there's that indicator, good boy. Now wait for me to clear the road, I've got priority.

It's not quite as irritating as the arsebiscuits who park right against junctions - I can't see through, because wheelchair, and it's especially dangerous when I'm on my recumbent, because then I can't see until roughly half my 2.2m length is out into the road.

CygnusX1 wrote:

I can think of a few more useful symbols that this could display to tell idiot drivers where to go 

My first thought too: will a middle finger salute be one of the options?