The rise of the Electric Vehicle - Cyclists new danger?

bamboo wrote:

Can we address the real issue - those pesky pedestrians, they are really whisper quiet. They are a real danger to cyclists - coming from nowhere suddenly stepping into the road. I find it hard to believe that there is no law yet introducing mandatory noise devices for them - I am thinking a tuba for each one with mandatory playing of such as soon as another road participant approaches. I think I'll set up a petition!

As not everyone is proficient with a tuba, maybe just employ some people to follow pedestrians around:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0aIqx1McVI

ChrisB200SX wrote:

I drive an electric car now. There is no reason it should have to make artificial noise in the same way I don't have to make artificial noise on my bike or when I'm running, or even walking.

That's because hitting someone or something with a car wil probably kill them. There are huge numbers of people [and animals] killed by vehicles as it is now. If they are quieter this probelm will only increase as sometimes you hear engine before you see them. Expect cat's 9 lives to be taken out a lot faster.
I've seen so many dead critters on my last few rides. Including a deer on last one. Then there are the people who walk their dogs on country lanes.

ChrisB200SX wrote:

I drive an electric car now. There is no reason it should have to make artificial noise in the same way I don't have to make artificial noise on my bike or when I'm running, or even walking.

Except that, as is often pointed out on this very site, its not comparable: green power or not, an electric car is two tonnes of metal and plastic and moves (usually) a lot faster than a bike or a pedestrian and is a greater risk.

Personally, I think the Cylon swoosh-swoosh noise would be good 

brooksby wrote:

ChrisB200SX wrote:

I drive an electric car now. There is no reason it should have to make artificial noise in the same way I don't have to make artificial noise on my bike or when I'm running, or even walking.

Except that, as is often pointed out on this very site, its not comparable: green power or not, an electric car is two tonnes of metal and plastic and moves (usually) a lot faster than a bike or a pedestrian and is a greater risk.

Personally, I think the Cylon swoosh-swoosh noise would be good 

And they are a lot bigger and make much more road noise. I have never had any issues not seeing cars when riding a motorbike, with a helmet on and ear plugs in, you just need to make sure you do proper checks and be aware of what is around you.

We can't really go using this excuse and then expect drivers to not want to use it. Years of telling drivers to look for cyclists then complaining about cars being silent would be hypocritical. Not to mention the fact that the majority of noise on most mid-range (i.e. not anything fast and loud or cheap with a rough engine and poor sound deadening) cars at road speed is tyre noise, not the engine, at least from the front.

brooksby wrote:

Personally, I think the Cylon swoosh-swoosh noise would be good 

What about a recording of a 6 year old pretending to drive a race car? "Nrrrrrrrrr..... nyeow....." Should be compulsory to be fitted to any forthcoming electric Audis as the drivers of those frequently don't seem to have advanced beyond that age anyway

JMcL_Ireland wrote:

brooksby wrote:

Personally, I think the Cylon swoosh-swoosh noise would be good 

What about a recording of a 6 year old pretending to drive a race car? "Nrrrrrrrrr..... nyeow....." Should be compulsory to be fitted to any forthcoming electric Audis as the drivers of those frequently don't seem to have advanced beyond that age anyway

I'd quite like a Tardis noise. 

As long as the sound is within set db limits, it might be an option for drivers to choose sounds for their cars. Remember when people used to buy novelty ring tones for their mobiles?

risoto wrote:

The problem with electrical bikes is that passing cars expect the bike to go at a slower, normal, speed for a bike. Bikers riding electrical bikes have by far the highest death and injury incidence. They are dangerous.

I almost killed a lady last year. I had overtaken her but when I had to make a left  turn, in my car, half a mile later she was next to me whizzing by at 20 miles an hour while I had to slow down as I approached the shopping center. Luckily I am very careful when making turns so I could stop the car.

Nothing to do with eBikes. Road bikes can average 20mph quite easily; it's hardly "whizzing". You sure that overtake was sensible?

risoto wrote:

The problem with electrical bikes is that passing cars expect the bike to go at a slower, normal, speed for a bike. Bikers riding electrical bikes have by far the highest death and injury incidence. They are dangerous.

I almost killed a lady last year. I had overtaken her but when I had to make a left  turn, in my car, half a mile later she was next to me whizzing by at 20 miles an hour while I had to slow down as I approached the shopping center. Luckily I am very careful when making turns so I could stop the car.

Ebikes are limited to 15mph in the UK.

Which country are you refering to for your post?

20 mph speedo is hardly fast for a normal bike.

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

as well as where all the electricty is going to come from.

Wind

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45873785

We have massive amounts of wind and tidal power in the UK that could be utilised with the political will.

hirsute wrote:

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

as well as where all the electricty is going to come from.

Wind

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45873785

We have massive amounts of wind and tidal power in the UK that could be utilised with the political will.

COULD be used. Labour and Cons have rejected tidal, in fact gordon brown went to great lengths to dismiss a tidal barage on the Severn. It's going to cost taxpayers a shit ton of money so that EV drivers can have cheap electricity and make yet more profit for foreign investment which won't be taxed properly. it also won't be anywhere close to covering the energy requirement for 30 years or more. Meanwhile cycle infra protagonists will still be pissing in the wind for a few million quid here and there.

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

Electric cars are not in themselves that much better than an ICE vehicle, you can hear the noise from the tyres even at low speed.

The big problem with EVs is that they will take more space with charging points on streets and will still clog up the roads and it will only get worse. On street pollution may well go down but that won't change the killing and maiming, nor will it help with health of those only ever getting about without any effort.

EVs are a toxic non solution to our mobility problems that will cost massively more than people are being told as well as where all the electricty is going to come from.

https://www.driving.co.uk/news/electric-cars-will-clog-roads-next-three-...

Half-agree.  They are far from a complete solution, but that on-street pollution is a huge issue - it actually enrages me, given the extremely polluted roads I have to travel regularly - these guys are behaving as if the streets belong to them, getting in my way, bullying me, _and_ they are poisoning me as they do so!

I still haven't forgiven them for the huge quantity of lead I breathed in as a child. 

And the argument that lead in petrol may have contributed to the spike in violent crime across the developed world during the '90s is not as wild as it sounds...if in my dotage I go on a violent anti-car rampage you can blame all that lead in my brain and bones (apparently the stuff that accumulated in your bones gets released as your age and screws with your brain all over again!).

If electric cars solve that one problem of local pollution that will be a big improvement.   Admittedly I'm yet to be convinced they will ever become the norm, but they seem a much more viable tech than those self-driving cars.

The other problems of motoriing require other solutions.

cyclisto wrote:

The greatest threat for cyclists is imo vehicle's emissions and not the vehicle itself. Full electric cars will just terminate thia problem. On the other hand, hearing is really useful to cyclists, I would feel really unsafe to ride with earphones. So yes a mild sound would be necessary, but even without it, battery only cars can greatly reduce the biggest threat we face daily

Coincidentally, I just happened upon this article from 2017 that explores the possible link between Alzheimer's and dirty air: https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/01/brain-pollution-evidence-builds-...

I'd much rather have cleaner air and electric vehicles as the noise issue is easy to mitigate.