Triathlete urges drivers to "think twice" after shocking dashcam footage shows moment bike was catapulted into the air from collision

nicmason wrote:

Strangely I've just been out (in a car) and as I approached a mini roundabout I checked all directions not just where the rule book says where the traffic is coming from.

You should try it.

Yeah normally I'm checking for people from my left failing to give way to me, once I've already confirmed no one is joining the roandabout upstream of me. I am certainly not checking for anyone driving the wrong way, hitting me from the left as I enter, as a prioority over looking for those who may be coming from my right.

Again your own text fromt he RAC not the highway code

"The approaching traffic usually gives way to traffic already on the roundabout, which always comes from the right."

Note the approaching traffic USUALLY gives way (despite this being the rule) so be cautious that they may not. BUT the traffic on the roundabout ALWAYS comes from the right. (except of course in this case) .

At cycling speeds there is time to look for those failing to give way once on the roundabout, and when driving I would not be driving faster than that anyway.

This is akin to a pedestrian getting taken out by a driver passing the wrong side of a traffic island, and then asking the pedestrian why they didn't look both ways before stepping out. Despite the road being marked "look right" or "look left" as appropriate to the direction the traffic should be coming from.

And this you term "a bit of balance"

nicmason wrote:

 

"Research shows that drivers have difficulty spotting a bike approaching, judging its speed correctly and estimating its time of arrival. As you approach junctions, try to see where the driver’s eyes are pointing and whether its wheels are beginning to turn. Consider how you would deal safely with the vehicle unexpectedlypulling out in front of you.

That last sentence is very helpful in avaoiding cars.

Thank you! The first sentence here is factually correct and the advice following is sound - but surely the timing is rather important?  The following sentence (by me) is also relevant:

Cars accelerate more quickly than bicycles and attain higher speeds.

So while it's useful to be reminded of these things maybe you can help? The last two times when I had people pull out on me, when I was looking them in the eyes (while obviously switching between looking them in they eyes and watching their tyres as per this guidance) was I saved by my thoughtful preparation, my quick reactions, by their quick reactions when they woke from their trance, some kind of telepathy or just chance?  Also how content would you be content with an explanation of "these things happen" or "our chap was just having an off day" if something went wrong in another field e.g. rail accident, your bank lost your money etc?

You seem big on "individual responsibility" for cyclists.  Surely a greater proportion of the responsibility should rest with the people who are "getting the benefits" e.g. the convenience of their motor vehicle?  Drivers also bring more danger to the situation - I'm not aware of any motorists seriously injured or killed by cyclists while driving?

Its odd how agitated people get when you suggest they can help themselves by being more observant of everything thats happening around them and reacting accordingly. 

Driver of the white car at fault. certainly.

Could the cyclist have helped himself through reacting to the car ?  yes he could.

The only responsibilty you can manage is your own so maximise that and minimise your accidents

nicmason wrote:

Its odd how agitated people get when you suggest they can help themselves by being more observant of everything thats happening around them and reacting accordingly. 

Driver of the white car at fault. certainly.

Could the cyclist have helped himself through reacting to the car ?  yes he could.

The only responsibilty you can manage is your own so maximise that and minimise your accidents

Surely it's more odd that you spent so much time here when you could have stopped at:

nicmason wrote:

Driver of the white car at fault.

its not the whole picture though is it . and much as you may hate it cyclists can help themselves more by being more in tune with whats happening all around them.

That none of you can accept that is odd.

He did react to the driver and was as far away as possible for a legal manoeurve. The trouble is you make stuff up such as 'he could have braked'. Perhaps you could link to this 4k video you have watched.

No point banging on about accepting stuff when people are doing completely illegal stuff. You write as though anything can be avoided.

Any advice on avoiding drivers towing a caravan the wrong way on the M40 ?

Yes.

When I tow my caravan the wrong way on the M40 i look out for cyclists who have accidentally got on a motorway.

That's a no then.
Any link to the 4k video you watched ?

nicmason wrote:

its not the whole picture though is it . and much as you may hate it cyclists can help themselves more by being more in tune with whats happening all around them.

That none of you can accept that is odd.

"Women can help themselves avoid rape by dressing differently and carrying rape alarms."
"Teenagers passing through dodgy neighbourhoods could help avoid harm by wearing stab vests."
Just fuck off with the victim-blaming.

Youre a lttle charmer arent you.

Thats such a ridiculous comment.

You are comparing motorists to rapists and murderers.

No he isn't. All he is doing is pointing out your blatant victim blaming. If you watch the  video, you will see that the cyclist takes note of the tonsil entering the round about incorrectly (or correctly according to you) and tries to avoid the car. 

If he had paid attention to what was actually happening in fornt of him rather than waht should be happening he would have had a better chance of avoiding the car.

As I have said before. The white car caused the accident. I am talking about what you as a cyclist can do to minimise your risk.

He was paying attention, he did try and avoid the driver/car. There is only so much you can do and looking for a vehicle coming from the correct side would have taken most of his attention.

Hi Ernie, I wouldn't bother engaging as Nic drives on mini roundabouts just likes this woman so is just as dangerous as she is. He even admitted himself on the thread that it is wrong but he still does it. 

Maybe I'm watching a different video to the everyone else, but it looks to me like the motorist was already established on the second roundabout, when the cyclist had barely cleared the first roundabout (first and second from the cyclist perspective).  Yes, you give way to road user approaching from the right, but not once you have already emerged and are established on the round about. The way that the motorist drove through (rather than around) the roundabout was a bit shit, but I can't see how this was caused by anything other than the cyclist try to get infront of a vehicle that was already on the roundabout and being operated by a motorist who wouldn't be aware of his approach (no one is going to be checking their A-spot for idiots approaching from the right, trying to overtake road users already on the roundabout).

Had the motorist been less doddery, they probably would have been through the roundabout without issue, but I doubt that if the motorist had taken the proper line around the roundabout it would have helped much in this situation.

nicmason wrote:

If he had paid attention to what was actually happening in fornt of him rather than waht should be happening he would have had a better chance of avoiding the car.

The cyclist was distracted from what was happening in front of him by using the force to try to predict what might be about to happen.

You seem to be on the receiving end here. If you'd only pay attention to what's being posted around you rather than what you'd like to read I think you would do better.

In a relaxed and friendly spirit if you do have any advance on the ROSPA guidelines for avoiding this kind of thing then this is the place to post it.  Most people here are "advanced cyclists" so should be up for continued learning.

"The cyclist was distracted from what was happening in front of him by using the force to try to predict what might be about to happen."

yes. eyes work quite well for me.

also thanks for the advice . I do appreciate it. (not being sarcastic) but part of a vigorous chat column has to be debate and difference otherwise its just a lot of people nodding over their beer .

TBH the most interesting comment was that cycling organisations cut themselves off from Rospa becuase they felt Rospa where victim blaming.

I have just read through all of the comments and nicmason you are victim blaming IMHO.  In fact reading your comments I interpret them as  "Any cyclist involved in any accident must be at fault because they should have stopped and taken evasive action for something that the driver might do."

As a driver nicmason do you slow down and stop your car whenever you see a car at a give way junction and you have priority on the road?  Because by your logic if you run into a car that pulls out of a junction in front of you, you must shoulder some of the blame becuase you should have anticipated that the driver would pull out in front of your car.

Or if you are on the motorway and you are travelling in the middle lane on passing a slip road joining the motorway, and a suicide jockey comes from the slip road and moves straight across into the middle lane and hits your car.  You must be to blame because you should have anticipated that a driver might make such a maneuver.

Both of those examples as a driver you spotted the car at the junction/on the slip road, so if you "had paid attention to what was actually happening in fornt (sic) of him rather than waht (sic) should be happening he would have had a better chance of avoiding the car." or would that not apply in those circumstances because you were driving in a car?

Unlike `you perfect human beings i have always reflected after  any accident (not that many before you jump in) and think about what could I have done differently to avoid or mitigate  even when it was in no way my fault.

nicmason wrote:

Unlike `you perfect human beings i have always reflected after  any accident (not that many before you jump in) and think about what could I have done differently to avoid or mitigate  even when it was in no way my fault.

How to avoid accidents on the road - never go on the road.

As for mitigating the risk, there are limited things that you can do without putting yourself in further danger.

So a hypothetical scenario if you were riding along a road on your bike with  a stream of traffic coming the opposite way, and a car directly behind you, and there was no opportunity for the car behind to pass.  You are approaching a junction which has a car indicating to turn right.  The road is not wide enough for the car behind you to pass you into the face of oncoming vehicles

do you

1. carry on cycling maintaining your speed? - thereby take no mitigating action (against your principals - because you need to anticipate that the driver is going to do something they shouldn't by pulling out in front of you and turning left)
2. slow down on the approach to the car at the junction?- thereby mitigating the risk of an accident involving the car in front, but exponentially increasing the risk of an accident with the car behind because they are not expecting you to slow down
3. pull into the side and stop? - again completely avoid the potential of running into the car at the junction, but again likely cause more frustration and run the risk of an incident with the car behind
4. something else...... but you need to tell us all what your complete mitigation strategy is.

Cover the brake and pay attention. thats hard isnt it.

Of course you are happy with her driving as you have readily admitted it matches yours on these mini roundabouts, but she didn't seem to be covering her brake. A good second or two after the collision before she braked. 

I dint think anywhere have I said I was happy with her driving. I would say that having watched the video if I was in a car or on a bike I wouldnt have been hit by her because I would have seen her coming even though she was on the wrong side of the roundabout not coming from the expected direction . She was going quite slowly and he could have braked more. 

I see someone else has commented on the brake issues with these sporting bikes.

nicmason wrote:

I see someone else has commented on the brake issues with these sporting bikes.

Yip, and he is a well known victim blamer who enjoys taking contradictory positions to get a reaction.  Not sure that strengthens your position.

tbh Im not at all interested in "strengthening my position" I am interested in what people think and facts. And thats a fact.

nicmason wrote:

tbh Im not at all interested in "strengthening my position" I am interested in what people think and facts. And thats a fact.

Pardon me, but I've quite lost track; which version of the resident troll are you?  V5.1, V6.2, V8.3 or what?

Resident ?  Apparently occupying space in your head and thats about it.

And also both victim blamers have failed to notice his hands are on the controlling brake levers all through the manouvres from the time he is appears on video to the time he is ploughed into. 

I'm sure that niges handlebar tape must be pristine on the "tops" as apparently he never grips there. After all he seems to be adamant that you never ever hold anywhere on the bike where there isn't a brake lever straight there.

Really ? you can see that from that video . I dont think so.