Chair of Cycling UK in Scotland examines whether it is safe to wear headphones while riding a bike

ConcordeCX wrote:

your personal experience is not enough to warrant banning anything. Any claim that wearing headphones has never contributed to an accident would require evidence, just as the opposite claim would. Something being difficult for you to believe is not enough either.

if we accept the idea of the harm principle (https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/mill-moral-political/#HarPri), which is pretty much the basis of liberal enlightenment values, then there can be no case whatsoever for preventing any well-informed rational adult from doing anything which harms only them self. The only justification for a ban would be based on the degree of harm that the activity does to others, against their will, relative to cyclists' freedom to listen to the Today programme while commuting. Note that this means actually does, based on evidence, not might do based on speculation.

That evidence would need to show a suitably large number of cases where cyclists' failure to hear something they would certainly otherwise have heard was the predominant cause of harm to others, rather than say the failure to look behind when changing lanes, or someone's careless driving.

I think we are both in agreement that not being able to hear clearly does affect ones awareness of ones surroundings. What you are saying is that this doens't necessarily lead to an increase in accidents. Well I don't disagree only for me even one extra accident is one too many. I don't necessarily agree with a ban.

ianrobo wrote:

I use them all the time and will continue to do so regardless of any law. Until hands free is banned or smoking in a car or radios not set to a fixed volume 9or banned) then this is victim blaming.

I like Chris and when he posted this on twitter I do question it but it is only a study but studies tend to be abused by those with an agenda.

Again, have you read the article?  Who is victim blaming? Certainly not Professor Chris Oliver ...

Professor Oliver concluded: “Victim blaming can be very upsetting in some accident situations. The facts of cycling accidents have to be absolutely established.

“Before anyone can come to any strong conclusions, we need further research to build up the evidence base on the use of headphones while cycling.”

CygnusX1 wrote:

ianrobo wrote:

I use them all the time and will continue to do so regardless of any law. Until hands free is banned or smoking in a car or radios not set to a fixed volume 9or banned) then this is victim blaming.

I like Chris and when he posted this on twitter I do question it but it is only a study but studies tend to be abused by those with an agenda.

 

Again, have you read the article?  Who is victim blaming? Certainly not Professor Chris Oliver ...

Professor Oliver concluded: “Victim blaming can be very upsetting in some accident situations. The facts of cycling accidents have to be absolutely established.

“Before anyone can come to any strong conclusions, we need further research to build up the evidence base on the use of headphones while cycling.”

Chris is not doing that but others as I said would use anything to do that and this can only work if studies done alongside car and other other users on the road.

richiewormiling wrote:

can get an on-the-spot fine in Barcelona using headphones on a bike. 

Is this based on law or plain old anti-cycling prejudice? If it's law, there should be some very strong evidence to support it.

spragger wrote:

We need to ban the wind The wind causes much more abatement of car noise than headphones or earplugs connected to a mobile phone With them on I can always hear the drone of the car potentially going to hit me. The problem is I can do little about the car, even when I can hear it Barking up the wrong tree on this one Prof Better for cars to stick to HC advice

Must agree, once you get past about 15mph sounds levels from wind start to get noticeable. 

I used to ride with once earphone in and leave the offside open but now I can't be arsed with it as it's just one more thing to fiddle around with. 

spragger wrote:

Barking up the wrong tree on this one Prof

Better for cars to stick to HC advice

How is he barking up the wrong tree? Did you not read the article?

He's saying there is little evidence to support the idea of them being a problem, and he also stated “Logically, if one was to argue that loss of concentration through listening to music or speech was in itself sufficient reason to prohibit cycling with headphones, one would also have to argue that car stereos would have to be banned” 

I doubt, as chair of Cycling UK (Scotland) he would disagree with you regarding car drivers sticking to the Highway Code either - but this was for a blog in a sports medicine journal, so a discussion of the general adherence to the HC code by all types of users would be irrelevant in this context.

Mungecrundle wrote:

Well it's not illegal so go for it, but why anyone would voluntarily impair one of their major senses whilst riding a bicycle in an environment where staying alert might be considered beneficial to self preservation is quite beyond my comprehension.

Mother Nature has kindly impaired my hearing for me, without the use of technology, and I don't ride or walk with headphones on. I don't believe my impaired hearing makes any difference to my safety while riding.

The point of the exercise described in the article though is to establish evidence to show whether or not riding with headphones does impair a major sense.

Without some objective evidence it's nothing more than an exchange of anecdotes, opinions and, dare I say it, hearsay, signifying nothing.

Mungecrundle wrote:

Well it's not illegal so go for it, but why anyone would voluntarily impair one of their major senses whilst riding a bicycle in an environment where staying alert might be considered beneficial to self preservation is quite beyond my comprehension.

I wouldn't wear headphones, because I like hearing the natural environment around me, but I can easily comprehend why some people do wear them. They like listening to music while they ride!
A ban is never going to happen, because as pointed out above, you would also have to ban headphone use by pedestrians and drivers. Anyone who uses a cycle path will know it is often impossible to warn people of your approach because they have earphones plugged in.

nbrus wrote:

Using headphones cannot be compared to car stereos (at normal volume) because headphones tend to block all external sounds and so are a real danger as the wearer will not be fully aware of what is going on around them. This doesn't just go for cyclists, but for anyone out on a shared path or road.  What use is a bell on a bike if a walker is wearing headphones, they won't hear your warning and may step out in front of you.

Of course car stereos that can be heard from 50 yards, windows and engine noise do not block out external sounds! You do know that SMIDSY is a car drivers term used because they were not aware of their surroundings and couldn't be bothered to compensate by using their eyes don't you