Is the Rim Brake dead?

IanEdward wrote:

Discs can squeal for other reasons than contamination. I rode and raced disc brakes both XC and DH for 15 years, so I know how to set them up and avoid contamination. The only thing that could possibly be contaminating them is road spray, and if spray from the road can contaminate a road bike brake pad that quickly I'd suggest it's a bit of a flawed system! My theory is that mine just don't get used hard enough or often enough to heat up, so on wet rides I'm effectively braking on cold wet rotors. Campag have attempted to address it with their new brakes, think the pads have some sort of anti-vibration backing or something.

That's a fair point actually - if you analyse your road riding braking isn't a regular activity unless you're commuting. On my usual long rural loop I barely touch the brakes until I'm back in town. With sintered pads on the tourer I find first application in the wet squeals but once in regular use it goes away. The challenge with vibration and anti-rattle springs is that they don't work so well on a road bike as they do on a car. Cars always used coppaslip, metal backing plates and pad springs to hold the pads really close to the rotors. You just can't do that accurately enough on a bike caliper without inducing rub, noise, and drag.

RafatheRed wrote:

I take your point,been mountain biking for 30 years but only 4 mouths on the road.

Bournemouth, Portsmouth, Plymouth and Great Yarmouth?

RafatheRed wrote:

The thing for me is as soon as you look at a bike with disc the price goes up and the components go down a level.

That is certainly true on the road side of things. High end disc bikes are usually a heck of a lot dearer than their rim counterparts. Heavier too.

That will change but will take time.

vonhelmet wrote:

You can wear through a rotor, yes. I have them on my cross/foul weather bike and after 1000 miles mine are noticeably thinner at the edge, where they get bitten, than in the middle. I’ve seen a picture of a bike with a broken rotor, with the outer edge bent round the outside of the seat stay. That must have been quite a surprise.

Can you clarify that, the bit about 1000 miles and they are thinner?  I do 2,000 miles a year on my old MTB and I don't think I have ever replaced a disk.  The whol e bike needs replacing mind you!

The road bike has rim brakes and I seem to  get through a (basic/cheap) set of wheels once a year.  I say seem because my lbs tells me I need new wheels and I buy them.   I don't think I need disc brakes on the road, and although I commute it's on rural roads and I don't think I use the brakes that much.  I haven't had one situation in over 10 years of riding on Sussex roads where I have thought, oh sh1t, disc brakes would have helped me here.

If you are riding in the wet and you "think" you need disc brakes, it may be time to reset your personal risk assessments; slow down and give you and others more time to work around any problems that may arise.  

Daveyraveygravey wrote:

vonhelmet wrote:

You can wear through a rotor, yes. I have them on my cross/foul weather bike and after 1000 miles mine are noticeably thinner at the edge, where they get bitten, than in the middle. I’ve seen a picture of a bike with a broken rotor, with the outer edge bent round the outside of the seat stay. That must have been quite a surprise.

 

Can you clarify that, the bit about 1000 miles and they are thinner?  I do 2,000 miles a year on my old MTB and I don't think I have ever replaced a disk.  The whol e bike needs replacing mind you!

The road bike has rim brakes and I seem to  get through a (basic/cheap) set of wheels once a year.  I say seem because my lbs tells me I need new wheels and I buy them.   I don't think I need disc brakes on the road, and although I commute it's on rural roads and I don't think I use the brakes that much.  I haven't had one situation in over 10 years of riding on Sussex roads where I have thought, oh sh1t, disc brakes would have helped me here.

If you are riding in the wet and you "think" you need disc brakes, it may be time to reset your personal risk assessments; slow down and give you and others more time to work around any problems that may arise.  

Do you have high-power flashing lights on your bike? Because your LBS certainly saw you coming... New wheels once a year?! I have a pair of PLanet X AL30 wheels which have thin rims to keep the weight down and they're still going after 6 years and about 12,000 miles. 

Stop paying for your LBS owner's holiday to the Maldives every year and find another bike shop.

Joe Totale wrote:

Hydro Disc brakes for the commuter/winter bike

Rim brakes for the good bike

I've never had an issue with stopping in the dry with rim brakes and I find them a fair bit easier to maintain. My usual LBS is loving disc brakes as it's given them plenty more work. 

Maybe I'm in a minority but I want the good bike to be light, high performing in the dry and aesthetically pleasing, I find rim brakes tick all those boxes nicely and far most cost effectively then a disc system would. 

 

This.

On the winter bike I think I'd struggle to go back to rim brakes.

In the absence of long alpine descents round here rim brakes are fine for summer / best bike.

Joe Totale wrote:

Hydro Disc brakes for the commuter/winter bike

Rim brakes for the good bike

I've never had an issue with stopping in the dry with rim brakes and I find them a fair bit easier to maintain. My usual LBS is loving disc brakes as it's given them plenty more work. 

Maybe I'm in a minority but I want the good bike to be light, high performing in the dry and aesthetically pleasing, I find rim brakes tick all those boxes nicely and far most cost effectively then a disc system would. 

Broadly, this ^^^

I wouldn't buy a mountain bike with anything other than hydraulic disk brakes, but it's the obvious and preferred solution when the rims are going to be covered in mud for most of the time. They are also more forgiving if your wheel gets a bit out of true.

All the road bikes I've ever owned have had rim brakes and I've never once thought I didn't have enough brakes - and that includes some fairly hairy alpine descents in some pretty wet weather. I'm generally of the opinion that I'll run out of grip on the road before I'll run out of power in the brakes. And I don't necessarily subscribe to all the talk of better feel and modulation with discs over well set up rim brakes with good pads.

If I was buying a CX or winter bike, I wouldn't have a problem with discs, but I'd tend to stick with rim brakes on my best  summer bike.

As far as I'm concerned, the only reason for getting disc brakes on a road bike is that it doesn't wear the rims out on your fancy wheels - and a nod to heat issues with carbon rims on  big descents. Therefore, it's not really a surprise that high-end bikes that are going to have your Sunday best wheels should come with disc brakes. I've only ever worn one set of rims out (on my commuting bike) - and they were second hand to start with. Every other rim I've had to replace got broken long before it wore out.

Plasterer's Radio wrote:

Not dead but moribund.

Rim brakes have a small weight advantage and are cheaper  but are inferior in ever other way IMO. Think iPhone vs a cheap old Nokia....I bet you have the smartphone.

Why wouldn't you want great brakes, after all.

I think thats an unfair comparison... a closer match would be comparing the performance of say a Samsung A5 against an S9.

If you are looking for the best performance and to be on trend, you'd go for the S9, however the A5 will do everything you need of it, and most people will not judge you for going for the cheaper option.

You are right though, most people would go for great brakes, and I'll switch over when it makes commercial sense to do so, right now its a big investment for little gain. I'd also argue that unless you go shimano Di2 disc, you are buying in to some ugly great shifters, for a small uplift in performance... 

RafatheRed wrote:

Hi,thanks for your comments. I think I'm leaning to the Contend,shame about the ugly conduct system but I believe it works well.

The conduct braking system is actually really good. Bikes fitted with it are also supplied with the conduct accessory kit which has a gps, light and gopro mount and when this is fitted the conduct system doesnt even register it just looks like an integrated mount for your stuff.

Have a look on ebay at the defy advanced models available from last year. RM cycles has a defy advanced 3 for £1000 and an advanced 2 for £1250. Obviously depends on your size if they have the stock.