Lightweight wheels vs Aero wheels

Always worth keeping in mind that the rider contributes to approx. 80% of the total aerodynamic drag in road cycling and anywhere between 80-90% of the overall train weight (bike and rider)

Two most influential items wrt to aero drag are riding position and clothing. You need to find a balance with position that give you good enough drag reduction vs comfort (you can't generate good speeds or averages if you're hideously uncomfortable as it causes fatigue and ruins your pedalling mechanics). If your clothes are flapping in the wind then you're losing watts all over the place, more-so the faster you go. After that look at the helmet you're wearing (remember when Team Sky went to Kask helmets with less vents in them and started wearing skin suits for normal stages and not just time-trials).

Aero wheels only start to give a good return in saving watts around the 18-20mph mark, this is not to say there aren't some benefits at lower speeds but they are less pronounced. Forget the average speeds over a ride and look at the time you are most likely to spend around those speeds - if it's a small % of the time then aero rims aren't going to give you a benefit vs the investment, and may actually hinder you on climbing/rolling terrain as they inherently carry more outboard inertia due to the deep rim sections.

If you do a mix of flat and hill riding and still want a bit of aero then start around the 40mm rim depth as a good balance, 50mm+ is aimed more at flatter terrain so weigh up the trade off (and be honest with yourself about what type of riding you really do, how fast you actually are and if you could actually benefit from better training and nutrition rather than bashing your bank balance).

Rotating mass on the bike is far more important than static mass - shaving 100-200g from wheels is equivalent to 2 or 3 times that in terms of static weight.

In terms of outright benefit and usefulness, most people would probably gain significantly more from spending £800-1000 of their money on a power meter for training/riding rather than put that wedge into a flash wheel-set (unless you have a really crap set of wheels to start with). Remember it's no good having top notch kit if the engine isn't tuned and can't produce the output - I've had this experience first hand by having my ar$e handed to me by a 49 year old former racer riding a £1200 bike.

Having just put the summer (deeper, lighter) wheels on this week, it gave me a good opportunity to compare..

It just feels easier to hold a given speed, so
I'd say the rim depth is probably going to make the biggest difference, if you had to choose..

Then again, just going quality (hubs, tyres) is going to improve your experience - there's nothing like the feeling of a sorted bike humming along smooth roads with the feeling of low resistance and high efficiency - that's probably the biggest benefit I noticed when I put the nice wheels on again

Both will have negligible advantages overall, if any, buy whatever wheels make you want to get out and ride your bike more as the resulting fitness improvement will make you faster.

This thread confirms my suspicions about light and/or aero wheels; people talk bollocks about both and never, ever back up all their superlatives with anything approaching evidence.

One point, I've been amazed by how damn flexy even high end carbon tubs are - I'd pick lightweight alu any day if I was looking to climb lots.

I think a 50mm tub setup from wheelsmith isn't going to kill you when climbing and they are very well priced.

as pointed out earlier, it s important to break down the weight of a wheel in hub, rim and spokes/nipples - increased rim weight (and tyre/tube) will have a bigger impact on how a wheel gets up to speed (rotational inertia). Also, don't underestimate the contribution a top quality hub (and its bearings) in reducing drag and therefore speed.

if you live close to a wheel builder, you may well be able to demo a set on your routes.

just seen this thread as i'm seriously contemplating getting some aero wheels...I ride 2 bikes, a 6.7Kg wilier with campag shamal ultra wheels which are nice and light and great for climbing and an 8.5Kg boardman CXR cross bike with handbuilt velocity aileron disc wheels (approx 30mm depth). I run 25mm tyres on the wilier and 32mm on the boardman. After a week of commuting on the CXR, I find the wilier very sluggish on descents and the flat. In fact there are a couple of approx 1min strava segments on the flat where i'm about 5 seconds slower on the wilier...
To me it just feels that the deeper section aero wheels hold onto speed so much easier - could this be right? I can't see that the extra 2kg of weight would really affect things that much as combined with my (73Kg) and all extra accessories etc, it's hardly anything.
so basically, although i'd love some bora ultras, but can't justify spending over £2k, I was wondering if a slightly heavier aluminium aero wheel might offer something extra...Going on reviews of other Spada products how about these?

http://lead-out.co.uk/index.php/spada-breva-crystal-aero38.html

plus they're only 80g or so more than the shamals and look pretty cool to me!!

any advice - cheers!

+1

I am no faster or slower on my usual routes with either my lightweight alloys or my deep section carbons on undulating terrain. The only time I've had a noticeable difference is climbing Great Dunn Fell on deep sections, I won't do that again.

Aero rims are massively over egged outside the pro peloton or Cat 1/2 and above crits IMO.

There was a nice little thread on the same topic last week, which you might find interesting to get further points of view:
http://road.cc/content/forum/112006-real-deal-deep-rims

Might be worth trying the forum search function as well - I am pretty sure I have seen the topic come up a few times in various guises over the years.

I paid ~£400 and got aero wheels with nice bearings that were just as light as the non-aero wheels I was considering. Yes, there are compromises, but they were right for me and I really feel like they are a material upgrade over the Fulcrum Racing 5s I had before.

If you are doing most of your riding in a group, or doing plenty of climbing, I am not convinced deep section will give you much benefit.

I do *most* of my riding solo, at speed, with only limited hills and like to compete in Duathlons, so I felt aero would suit me best.

Aero trumps weight on all but the steepest hills. Some numbers:
http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40020&t=12619269&p=15290443

If you're not racing then I wouldn't worry about the very small benefit either would bring. The benefit of lightweight / aero / fat rims is grossly exaggerated IMHO.

If you just have to spend some money then pick a pair that takes your fancy and/or has some good reviews.

what I would caution, deep wheels and side winds, if you have two sets of wheels fine. I wouldn't want to be riding deep rims as an only option. I know a few people who have been caught out by strong cross winds, to the point the bike ers to unrideable.

I use a set of aero wheels, and a set of lighter (by around 200g) non aero.
I've run them both on a few similar routes, similar-ish conditions.

On the flatter rides, the aero have a bigger advantage.
Hillier rides they still hold some advantage, just not as much though. Might be a little more work on the ups, but you gain more on the down and flats as well.

If you go for something like the new generation of aero wheel, that are fatter so a shallower rim is more aero than a narrower deeper one (especially at yaw angles), in say a 38mm depth, you can pick up the Wheelsmiths which come in at just over 1400g, (at £740 not £400 though) you get a decent all rounder, doesn't give too much of a weight penalty, and still has aero gains.

I believe lightweight rims to be more advantageous on climbs over aero rims. Obviously a light weight set of aeros won't be any where near £400 and cheap ones will be fairly heavy compared to a decent set of hand built wheels.

Rode in a large group last sunday for the first time since getting mine and I was even more impressed with their performance. Others were easy pedalling and I could coast and still keep up with them on descents.

Mavic Open Pro rims, Hope RS Mono hubs, DT Swiss SS spokes, 32RR cross/radial- 28 FRT radial. Not the lightest set in the world due to the spokes used but they are light where it matters and they roll like a dream. Also very responsive and stiff. I paid £325 all in for mine but I do get decent discounts at my lbs.