Third cyclist killed on London Cycle Superhighway, tipper lorry involved

trucking cyclist wrote:

Right,,it,s time some home truths were told here

I very, very, much doubt that we will get any truth from you.

trucking cyclist wrote:

,,,I am 52 years old and hold a full license to drive every type of vehicle on the road from a motorcycle to an artic and including buses,,and i am a cyclist..

So you are of a decent age and can be trained to drive technically demanding vehicles but cant work a keyboard properly? I'm having further doubts here sunbeam.

trucking cyclist wrote:

I drove a fully safety equipped tipper around central london a few for a couple of weeks a few months ago

I doubt this happened.

trucking cyclist wrote:

i have to say ta lot of cyclists have no respect for their own lives

What a pile of complete tosh.

trucking cyclist wrote:

...i had one man about the age of the chap killed on the mile end road,,come into my blindspot,i was alerted by sensors,lean on my cab,despite there being a green box in front and DESPITE THE VEHICLE SHOUTING AT HIM REPEATEDLY THAT THIS VEHICLE IS TURNING LEFT..WHEN I GOT OUT AND ASKED HIM WHAT HE WAS DOING HE TOOK OFF THROUGH THE RED LIGHT WITHOUT LOOKING.

Really? So he was able to reach all the way up to the cab of a tipper truck? Must have been a big tall fella hey? Well done to you though for being able to see exactly what he was doing the whole time he was in a position where you claim you would be completely unable to see him, you know, in your blind spot.

Kudos too for being able to monitor if said cyclist had checked if the route was clear in the whole time it took you to climb out of a tipper truck, down the steps, round the front of the vehicle to where the cyclist was.

Come to think of it, what were you doing jumping out of your truck? I mean if the sensors were going off for long enough for you to get worked up and then make the decision to get out of the vehicle, then you would have had to come out of gear, check the brakes were on, turn the engine off, remove the keys, check the traffic for any other vehicles, traffic or pedestrians coming past, climb down the steps on to the road, round the vehicle and across to the cyclist. And the lights were still on red at this point? Alternatively, you've just jumped out of the cab, leaving several tonnes of highly hazardous machinery with its engine running. If either situation turned out to be true then it doesn't look good for you really does it?

trucking cyclist wrote:

Another man of the of a similar age on a BORIS BIKE decided that i should not be in the very wide bus lane at whitechapel despite me being there legally and moved to the centre of the bus lane after looking directly at me and held up all traffic.

I don't know the bus lane in question so I can't say if you are correct in saying you could legally be there, strikes me as odd that a tipper truck can drive in a bus lane at any time remotely near a peak time though, but regardless, this cyclist has ridden, made eye contact and presumably still felt that you would try to over take in a manner that would put him in danger so rode in the safest position in the road? He rode in a manner that actually made him safer? The crazy lunatic! This anecdote, again if it were true, would only serve to point out that you aren't very good at understanding roads or other road users.

trucking cyclist wrote:

these two are only a few of the stories i can tell of lunatic cyclists in Central London who seem to think they have rights over all other traffic and no respect for their own safety.

Actually, these stories have shown that it is you that thinks you have absolute right on the roads and that cyclists put themselves in safer positions.

trucking cyclist wrote:

I am sure it is often this type of cyclist that is involved in these terrible tragedies and i personally know truck drivers who have been cleared of any fault in a cyclist death,who lives have been destroyed by having to live with the trauma of these events despite being cleared of all responsibility. those of you that post these ban lorries and slag off lorry drivers in your posts are probably just these sort of people.

To paraphrase the old lager advert, "Troll, troll, troll, troll, troll, troll, troll, troll"

trucking cyclist wrote:

Remember as a cyclist you are using the road with no license registration or insurance and those of you who cycle in the road when there are perfectly safe cycle lanes available to you that have cost us the paying road user millions of pounds are a menace to society.

HAVE SOME RESPECT FOR OTHER ROAD USERS,,THE COUNCILS THAT HAVE SUPPLIED SAFE CYCLING ENVIROMENTS,,,AND MOST OFF ALL YOUR OWN LIVES.
WHY ANYONE FEELS THE NEED TO CYCLE ALONG THE HIGHWAY FROM THE LIMEHOUSE LINK TO TOWER HILL I HAVE NO IDEA,,,THERE IS A PERFECTLY SAFE FREE FROM LORRIES CYCLE LANE THE FULL LENGTH OF CABLE STREET...YOU DO IT BECAUSE YOU CAN,,,SOME OF YOU NEED TO GET REAL QUICKLY OR THIS WILL KEEP HAPPENING.IT IS NOT ALWAYS THE DRIVERS AT FAULT....USE THE FACILITIES AVAILABLE TO YOU AND STAY AWAY FROM TRUCKS....THEY ARE ONLY DANGEROUS IF YOU PUT YOURSELF IN A DANGEROUS POSITION.

It's at this point you've lost it, you might as well have two pencils up your nose and be shouting "wibble".

nod wrote:

No disrespect to the dead and not to absolve the driver of any blame (he has killed someone after all), but with every hgv-roundabout-left-turn fatality I'm increasingly thinking "idiot cyclist".

Seriously, who cycles alongside a hgv these days and isn't warily giving it a wide berth or just backing off and letting the thing go ahead completely?

This is such a dumb comment Im really not sure where to start with it.

The infrastructure in the UK forces vulnerable road users in with HGV's and conflict invariably happens. You have ASL's that put cyclists ahead of fast moving traffic and are EXACTLY the same shape and size as HGV's blind areas.

There is a huge lack of road craft training for ALL road users, especially with the licensing of motorised vehicles (only have to prove competency once in all the time you're driving?).

If you cannot grasp these concepts before making ignorant, victim blaming comments, then please refrain from doing so again.

zanf wrote:

nod wrote:

No disrespect to the dead and not to absolve the driver of any blame (he has killed someone after all), but with every hgv-roundabout-left-turn fatality I'm increasingly thinking "idiot cyclist".

Seriously, who cycles alongside a hgv these days and isn't warily giving it a wide berth or just backing off and letting the thing go ahead completely?

This is such a dumb comment Im really not sure where to start with it.

The infrastructure in the UK forces vulnerable road users in with HGV's and conflict invariably happens. You have ASL's that put cyclists ahead of fast moving traffic and are shaped EXACTLY the same shape and size as HGV's blind areas.

There is a huge lack of road craft training for ALL road users, especially with the licensing of motorised vehicles (only have to prove competency once in all the time you're driving?).

If you cannot grasp these concepts before making ignorant, victim blaming comments, then please refrain from doing so again.

Ha! I seem to grasp the concepts of vulnerability far better than you it would appear. When you're in an ASL it's because the traffic has stopped at the lights. I don't think anybody would sit in an ASL while the traffic is fast moving. Perhaps that's where you're going wrong!

As for me, I've got a driving licence, no car and the bike is my primary transport. Plenty of us have licences, and more should apply the skills learnt in the car while we're on the bike. Skills like always looking around you. I'm always looking around me for potential killers - HGVs, buses, cars, other cyclists, my little ponies etc, and if necessary I'll take adjust my position to be more visible or get clear.

It's not victim blaming, it's not the 'them against us' you think it is. It's about been aware, using some common sense, taking responsibility for your safety and living to see another day.

nod wrote:

- How can reader of this website still think there's such a thing as 'road tax'? seriously?

The last is easily answered at least - he's not a reader of the website normally, he's a single-issue troll who decided to go off on one and made himself look stupid

nod wrote:

When you're in an ASL it's because the traffic has stopped at the lights. I don't think anybody would sit in an ASL while the traffic is fast moving. Perhaps that's where you're going wrong!

Are you that dumb or think that being facetious is really clever?

Go and look at ASL's and you'll see that despite being across the width of the road, cyclists still tend to stay on the lefthand side and in the gutter.

Despite the design being that it gives cyclists a 'head start', it places them in front of faster moving traffic that as soon as the lights change, hurtle towards them. (motorbikes are especially guilty of this). They are a shit (non) solution to terrible junction design and there is a very good reason they are not used on mainland Europe.

nod wrote:

It's not victim blaming, it's not the 'them against us' you think it is. It's about been aware, using some common sense, taking responsibility for your safety and living to see another day.

Go and read your original comment because its obvious you have a massive discrepancy between what goes on in your head and reality.

trucking cyclist wrote:

.i had one man about the age of the chap killed on the mile end road,,come into my blindspot,

See, this is the problem with large motorized vehicles: they have massive blindspots. Really, as we're speaking some home truths here, said vehicles should only be driven in a hyper-cautious manner. If not, then we end up with accidents.

trucking cyclist wrote:

i was alerted by sensors,lean on my cab,despite there being a green box in front and DESPITE THE VEHICLE SHOUTING AT HIM REPEATEDLY THAT THIS VEHICLE IS TURNING LEFT..WHEN I GOT OUT AND ASKED HIM WHAT HE WAS DOING HE TOOK OFF THROUGH THE RED LIGHT WITHOUT LOOKING.

So you knew there was a cyclist there. He knew you knew, you knew he knew, it was a red-light... what's the problem? Apart from you screaming at him like a nutter?

trucking cyclist wrote:

Another man of the of a similar age on a BORIS BIKE decided that i should not be in the very wide bus lane at whitechapel despite me being there legally and moved to the centre of the bus lane after looking directly at me and held up all traffic.

Which can be rephrased as "Another man of 52 years of age on a TIPPER LORRY decided that a cyclist should not be in the center of a magic bus lane which is wide enough for a TIPPER LORRY to pass a bicycle with a car's width. Despite the cyclist being there legally."

Quote:

STAY AWAY FROM TRUCKS....THEY ARE ONLY DANGEROUS IF YOU PUT YOURSELF IN A DANGEROUS POSITION.

See, there's another problem... some of the people driving the trucks KEEP PUTTING OTHER ROAD USERS IN A DANGEROUS POSITION.

zanf wrote:

nod wrote:

When you're in an ASL it's because the traffic has stopped at the lights. I don't think anybody would sit in an ASL while the traffic is fast moving. Perhaps that's where you're going wrong!

Are you that dumb or think that being facetious is really clever?

Go and look at ASL's and you'll see that despite being across the width of the road, cyclists still tend to stay on the lefthand side and in the gutter.

Despite the design being that it gives cyclists a 'head start', it places them in front of faster moving traffic that as soon as the lights change, hurtle towards them. (motorbikes are especially guilty of this). They are a shit (non) solution to terrible junction design and there is a very good reason they are not used on mainland Europe.

nod wrote:

It's not victim blaming, it's not the 'them against us' you think it is. It's about been aware, using some common sense, taking responsibility for your safety and living to see another day.

Go and read your original comment because its obvious you have a massive discrepancy between what goes on in your head and reality.

Is your head just constantly replaying Mad Max? And I know what I said, and I stand by it.

trucking cyclist wrote:

menace to society.

You mean like this Truck driver?: http://img.thesun.co.uk/aidemitlum/archive/01614/PETER_SUTCLIFFE_1614684...

trucking cyclist wrote:

YOU ARE ALL MISSING THE POINT,,,NONE OF THESE DEATHS ARE CAUSED BY ANYONE OVERTAKING OR CUTTING UP..

Really? The one that we're talking about here, is one where the witness quoted says the truck drove into the back of him.

trucking cyclist wrote:

THE BUS LANE AT THAT POINT IS WIDE ENOUGH FOR 2 LORRIES...HE WAS A BLOODY MINDED FOOL PUTTING HIMSELF IN DANGER AS MANY CYCLISTS DO,,

How is he in danger? You saw him clearly according to yourself. Could you please provide a more exact location for this bus-lane so that I may judge for myself if it is "wide enough for two lorries" and whether or not there is an intersection close after it. The last bit is interesting: taking the lane becomes more necessary when there are junctions shortly ahead where impatient/incompetent drivers will perform a hook turn... leading to the phenomenon of a cyclist getting squashed and then some fool ranting that cyclists should not be near traffic lights or junctions.

Your bloody-minded fool sounds like a smart man to me.

mad_scot_rider wrote:

nod wrote:

- How can reader of this website still think there's such a thing as 'road tax'? seriously?

The last is easily answered at least - he's not a reader of the website normally, he's a single-issue troll who decided to go off on one and made himself look stupid

Sounds reasonable!

mad_scot_rider wrote:

Bad news guys - I think our refusal to get off his roads has made Mr. Shoutie leave in a huff

I think he may have gone back to his several twitter accounts.

Seriously?

Neil753 wrote:

We shouldn't be dismissing Mr Shoutie's rant

Sorry - any first time posters with a caps lock problem and the gall to blame a dead man for dying (without full details of the incident in question being available) is prime fodder for the cold shoulder as far as I'm concerned

Neil753 wrote:

and listen to what each group is saying.

I saw no evidence of this on his part either to be fair

Neil753 wrote:

I do appreciate that cyclists get short thrift on HGV forums, so it works both ways, but we should all be more willing to listen to alternative points of view.

He didn't have a point of view - his post was what I called it - a rant.

Had he expressed any willingness to engage, any empathy, any thoughts about improvement (Dear Dog! Any thought at all would have been good) then maybe I could engage in reasoned debate

He is what he was treated as - a Troll - you can do two things with them, either ignore them or bait them till they choke on their own bile

I find it much more fun to do the latter - so sue me

Sustransoftie wrote:

I'm sticking my neck on the line, but I actually agree with some of the things that Mr. BIG CAPS has said

I've driven in lorries around London, and unfortunately, there are some absolute knobheads on bicycles. I've been cycling for over thirty plus years and the roads are now more congested than ever. Never mind London; it's the whole of GB.

I nearly ran over a girl on a fixed gear bike with no brakes. as she pulled out of a side street. When I pulled up at the lights she was on the phone with headphones in. She was totally oblivious to the world around her, so who's at fault now?

We can all point the finger at Beemer drivers, trucks, mopeds, pedestrians, 4x4s etc. but the public transport is a feckin' bad joke in all cities.

Whichever government is in "power" always screws up the roads regarding safety. The politicians are clueless and scared to make a decision, in case they lose votes.

So, to everyone on here, what do you expect and what will you do to prevent cyclists being killed?

Don't be afraid to put your head above the parapet; there are a number of HGV drivers on this forum. It's good to hear things from a different perspective.

Neil753 wrote:

William Black wrote:

[/sweeping generalisations regarding fat lorry drivers>

A bit extreme, isn't it? As a C+E licence holder, I'd say the testing standards in the UK are among the highest within the EU, We now have to undertake regular professional competence training by law, and stringent medical testing starts when you reach the age of 45. All measures far beyond those required of other drivers.

Perhaps, and I did add the "sweeping generalisations" bit as I'm all too aware there are numerous exceptions to any rule.

But as the 'Shouty Man Troll' has demonstrated so wonderfully, when lorry (again citing the exceptions to the rule) drivers don't even have the slightest clue as to why a cyclist in a narrow lane might want to place himself bang in the middle, and think he's 'deliberately trying to hold up traffic'** rather than just protect himself, it just seems to me we're banging heads against a brick wall and only continued driver education can save us.

** One of the best retorts to this was by a rider in the team of a friend doing JOGLE with a big support van tailing them. They pulled in to a 'greasy spoon' layby for a refresh of bottles and all that a few minutes later a driver on the way to the burger van see's them all and remarks 'oh, you're the ones who were holding up the traffic back there' rider replies quite simply with "we are traffic" bloke didn't have a response to that one.