Testers unable to find Chris Horner for out-of-competition doping test; team says they were in wrong hotel

Apparent admin blunder makes testers look silly

by John Stevenson   September 16, 2013  

Vuelta 2013 Stage 10 - Chris Horner wins (© Unipublic:Graham Watson)

Spanish drug testing officials acting for the US Anti-Doping Agency went looking for Vuelta a Espana winner Chris Horner this morning to administer an out-of-competition test, but were unable to find him, according to reports from Spain.

However, Horner’s Radio Shack-Leopard team claims that he had updated his whereabouts on the Anti-Doping and Management System (ADAMS) system the previous day and the testers were simply looking in the wrong place.

Horner was not at the Hotel Princesa in Madrid, where the rest of the team were staying. The testers apparently went to another hotel in search of Horner, but did not find him there either.

A team spokesman told cyclingnews.com: "There is no problem. They went to the team hotel but he is in another hotel. He had mentioned this in his ADAMS. They should do their administration more correctly than they did. They need to check their whereabouts, too."

RadioShack-Leopard press officer Tim Vanderjeugd subsequently tweeted: "The second hotel they went to was a randomly picked Ibis where they thought he could be."

The team later issued the following statement, accompanied by a screenshot of an automated email from USADA acknowledging Horner’s registered whereabouts at 6am to 7am this morning.

The management of RadioShack Leopard Trek wants to clarify the situation about the alleged missed out of competition anti-doping test of Chris Horner.

Chris Horner updated his whereabouts with USADA before the start of the final stage, giving the agency the name of his hotel for the night, phone number and room number for his one hour window between 6 and 7 AM. This is all according to the rules and Chris Horner received a confirmation email.

The anti-doping inspectors from the Spanish Anti-doping Agency that were asked to do the test by the United States Anti-Doping Agency (USADA) showed up at the wrong hotel in Madrid, where the team was staying but Horner was obviously not to be found.

The team believes the communication between the Spanish Anti-doping Agency and the media is a violation of the privacy of Chris Horner, especially since it comes down to a clear mistake by the tester.

The team asks the media to report correctly on this matter and will seek compensation for this matter with the responsible anti-doping agencies.

Horner was sought for testing under World Anti-Doping Agency rules that apply to top-level athletes. Athletes in the program must register their whereabouts for a one-hour period each day between 6 am and 11 pm.

If an athlete cannot be found three times in 18 months at his or her specified locations, and cannot satisfactorily explain those absences, then they are subject to a disciplinary proceeding by the relevant anti-doping agency. Sanctions range between one and two years.

63 user comments

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You can be damn sure if he hadn't followed protocol his team wouldn't be advertising the fact while asking for compensation. Its worth noting this isn't a failed test, its a failure to test. I am not protesting his innocence, my point is that we shouldn't be so quick to condemn a rider just because we have been fooled before.

Wishing I had started 20 years earlier...

posted by wifwaf [20 posts]
16th September 2013 - 18:58

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Per Hamilton's book changing location at the 'last minute' was also a frequent ploy to avoid the tests, and in fact he mentions the timing of the morning. As he puts it, missing one test is a small price to pay, and generally it is pretty hard to catch a rider 'glowing'.

posted by Colin Peyresourde [968 posts]
16th September 2013 - 18:58

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Colin Peyresourde wrote:
There are a range of tests they can do (and from what I saw of the TdF testing they are selective as to what test they do

I read recently (can't remember the source) how only a small percentage of tests carried out over recent years were for EPO and blood-doping. Perhaps the testers have also adopted a no-needle policy Thinking

posted by daddyELVIS [216 posts]
16th September 2013 - 19:06

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wifwaf wrote:
You can be damn sure if he hadn't followed protocol his team wouldn't be advertising the fact while asking for compensation. Its worth noting this isn't a failed test, its a failure to test. I am not protesting his innocence, my point is that we shouldn't be so quick to condemn a rider just because we have been fooled before.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

I never liked LA, and smell the same whiff now. The race times someone posted from the climb he made in 16:99, a half a minute quicker than any previous rider, in any previous tour was pretty much a nail in the coffin.

The team are hiding behind protocol, but they didn't do anything to help locate him. The conspiracy of silence is deafening. I'm kicking up sh!t here, because if you let this stuff slide then we go back to the bad old days - personally I don't think we've left them.

And I know when I'm being lied to and there are big holes in this. Although I would like to hear something from USADA. No one has adequately explained why a man past his prime has out raced better cyclists than himself, nor why he's hit such a rich vein of form in a 3 week competition. Things that age affects:
Power
Recovery
Like Miller writes in his book, you can win a stage, but not a GT - but even the manner of his victories is staggeringly unbelievable - for someone who wasn't a known climber he pasted his opposition on....climbs.

posted by Colin Peyresourde [968 posts]
16th September 2013 - 19:14

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daddyELVIS wrote:
Colin Peyresourde wrote:
There are a range of tests they can do (and from what I saw of the TdF testing they are selective as to what test they do

I read recently (can't remember the source) how only a small percentage of tests carried out over recent years were for EPO and blood-doping. Perhaps the testers have also adopted a no-needle policy Thinking

I think this year of all years the TdF weren't going to illicit any scandals - test a rider you know won't make waves if he is found guilty. Urine tests for the rest. Smiles all round.

posted by Colin Peyresourde [968 posts]
16th September 2013 - 19:17

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From detailed USADA document - http://www.usada.org/uploads/testing/2011_whereabouts_policy.pdf

When making a Whereabouts Filing, it is the Athlete’s responsibility to ensure that he or she provides all
required information accurately and in sufficient detail to enable the Athlete to be located by any Anti-
Doping Organization wishing to locate the Athlete for Testing on any given day in the quarter."

&

The negligent failure by any Athlete in the USADA RTP to comply with USADA’s whereabouts policies may result in a “Filing Failure” for failing to timely, accurately or completely provide required whereabouts information and/or for being unavailable for testing due to inaccurate information provided on the Whereabouts Filing.

posted by MinardiM189 [28 posts]
16th September 2013 - 19:48

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You never liked LA ? What does liking have to do with objective judgements?

And what does that have to do with Chris Horner and his supposed guilt?

USADA have now confirmed that Horner is blameless in all this, but of course that wont be enough for you, because you don't like Horner and that's enough for you to establish guilt. You sir are a troll. Get back under your bridge.

Wishing I had started 20 years earlier...

posted by wifwaf [20 posts]
16th September 2013 - 19:52

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Colin Peyresourde wrote:
wifwaf wrote:
You can be damn sure if he hadn't followed protocol his team wouldn't be advertising the fact while asking for compensation. Its worth noting this isn't a failed test, its a failure to test. I am not protesting his innocence, my point is that we shouldn't be so quick to condemn a rider just because we have been fooled before.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

I never liked LA, and smell the same whiff now. The race times someone posted from the climb he made in 16:99, a half a minute quicker than any previous rider, in any previous tour was pretty much a nail in the coffin.

The team are hiding behind protocol, but they didn't do anything to help locate him. The conspiracy of silence is deafening. I'm kicking up sh!t here, because if you let this stuff slide then we go back to the bad old days - personally I don't think we've left them.

And I know when I'm being lied to and there are big holes in this. Although I would like to hear something from USADA. No one has adequately explained why a man past his prime has out raced better cyclists than himself, nor why he's hit such a rich vein of form in a 3 week competition. Things that age affects:
Power
Recovery
Like Miller writes in his book, you can win a stage, but not a GT - but even the manner of his victories is staggeringly unbelievable - for someone who wasn't a known climber he pasted his opposition on....climbs.

What are YOU on?
Not a known climber? Top ten TDF finisher; Tour of Basque Country winner; Tour of California winner; in terms of victories THE most successful American rider of the last twenty years.
It's almost like you don't know what you're talking about...
Of course, it obvious he MUST have been on some new wonder drug (available only to Americans) that didn't show a positive for three weeks of racing, but has the unfortunate side effect of being detected as soon as the race finishes.

posted by pwake [234 posts]
16th September 2013 - 19:53

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if the ADAMS procedure allows the athlete to change their window at relatively short notice, then part of the procedure should include the testers doing an up to date check of location and time after the permitted change window closes/before knocking on the door. Otherwise they may look stupid. If they don't and thus fuck up, they shouldn't then be running to the press.
I maintain healthy scepticism, but this looks like the adminstrators fucked up, not some attempt at subterfuge.

posted by Al__S [417 posts]
16th September 2013 - 20:07

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wifwaf wrote:
Some of the above comments make me sick. People are so quick to condemn. If you actually look at what has happened here, Horner has done nothing wrong. Whatever other reasons people have for suspecting something is amiss, jumping to conclusions about Horner because the testers cant follow the information he gave them is downright unfair.

And please, don't make excuses like 'they don't work Sundays so wouldn't see the email'...for goodness sake, if they are serious about making out of competition tests, they must check the database before testing someone.

There is gullibility in believing someone must be innocent in the face of incriminating evidence, but its equally credulous to jump to an assumption of guilt when there is no reason to do so.

So quick to condemn? Have you been following cycling for the past few years? How do you know Horner has done nothing wrong? Don't you think there is every reason to be suspicious here? Chris Froome took both barrels during the Tour, and he is someone whose numbers have been rock-solid for years and shown by all sensible measures a natural progression. Here on the other hand, is a guy who has suddenly out performed some of the best in the world, in the toughest GT out there, smiling his way up ridiculous climbs day after day, in a style he has never come near showing before.

Even without this missed-test story, the situation stinks - I hope he is clean, but the only way we can have any idea if he is tested and tested and tested. Stories coming out the day after his win that he's missed a test do not help with that at all.

posted by phazon [21 posts]
16th September 2013 - 20:12

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USADA statement

The U.S. Anti-Doping Agency announced on Monday afternoon that American Chris Horner had updated his whereabouts correctly, and that a missed drug test following his Vuelta a España win was due to a timing issue between the U.S. and Spain. It will not count as a missed test, and Horner is not accused of any wrongdoing.

posted by Metjas [240 posts]
16th September 2013 - 20:30

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wifwaf wrote:
You sir are a troll. Get back under your bridge.

Why is someone with a different opinion to you a 'troll'? A bit childish Silly

posted by daddyELVIS [216 posts]
16th September 2013 - 20:34

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pwake wrote:

What are YOU on?
Not a known climber? Top ten TDF finisher; Tour of Basque Country winner; Tour of California winner; in terms of victories THE most successful American rider of the last twenty years.
It's almost like you don't know what you're talking about...
Of course, it obvious he MUST have been on some new wonder drug (available only to Americans) that didn't show a positive for three weeks of racing, but has the unfortunate side effect of being detected as soon as the race finishes.

Pan e Aqua.

He's done nothing in a GT of any note. You'd find most people would struggle to recognise him from ADAM. You seem to wipe the slate of his historical associations clean because it's easier to close your eyes and imagine that everything has magically come clean post-LA, and that something as improbable as Horner suddenly being a real GC contender is a feasible reality at 42. Don't you think that it is strange given that he's never come close to doing what Froome did for Wiggins? Or even Uran in entirety of his 'successful career'?

I don't for a minute think he has a magic drug - in fact I think he's probably using many of the same ones LA used (but possibly in a different cocktail). Do you have any idea how hard it is for the anti-doping agencies to catch riders? Did the last twenty years happen for you? None of the big doping cases came from positives - Balco, Armstrong, Festina, the Austrian Cross-Country team, Dr Fuentes

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/23605334
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23911979

You seem to think that the testing procedures are effective, but if that was the case you would think they would of caught Armstrong the unreformed cheat in 2009 and 2010. Instead he got an exemption, and was able to work perfectly undetected in the system.

Horner missing his test is just a part of the big lie that the peloton runs 'cleaner than ever'. As mentioned above the old 'switcheroo' on the whereabouts is as classic as Armstrong sprinting up the Hautacam.

If you've received any emails suggesting that you've won the lottery, I'll let you in on a secret, you haven't and those guys you gave your account details are fleecing you right now....

posted by Colin Peyresourde [968 posts]
16th September 2013 - 20:52

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phazon wrote:
wifwaf wrote:
Some of the above comments make me sick. People are so quick to condemn. If you actually look at what has happened here, Horner has done nothing wrong. Whatever other reasons people have for suspecting something is amiss, jumping to conclusions about Horner because the testers cant follow the information he gave them is downright unfair.

And please, don't make excuses like 'they don't work Sundays so wouldn't see the email'...for goodness sake, if they are serious about making out of competition tests, they must check the database before testing someone.

There is gullibility in believing someone must be innocent in the face of incriminating evidence, but its equally credulous to jump to an assumption of guilt when there is no reason to do so.

So quick to condemn? Have you been following cycling for the past few years? How do you know Horner has done nothing wrong? Don't you think there is every reason to be suspicious here? Chris Froome took both barrels during the Tour, and he is someone whose numbers have been rock-solid for years and shown by all sensible measures a natural progression. Here on the other hand, is a guy who has suddenly out performed some of the best in the world, in the toughest GT out there, smiling his way up ridiculous climbs day after day, in a style he has never come near showing before.

Even without this missed-test story, the situation stinks - I hope he is clean, but the only way we can have any idea if he is tested and tested and tested. Stories coming out the day after his win that he's missed a test do not help with that at all.

How do I know he has done nothing wrong? I don't. Is that a basis for calling someone a cheat? Gut-feeling doesn't entitle me or anyone else to proclaim his guilt when all we actually know is that he informed USADA in advance of his whereabouts as required, he didn't miss a test, USADA didn't pass his new address details to the testers, and so the testers went to the wrong place.

I am not in this thread to proclaim Horner is clean. My point is simple - posters here are talking as if this report is proof positive that he has cheated. This is poor speculation and flies in the face of the numerous tests he has already undertaken all the way through the Vuelta, which have evidently not proved positive.

I am not a Horner apologist, but I really detest this kind of forum witch-hunt from every armchair expert who can raise a fat finger to the keyboard without having any real evidence other than rumour and deja-vu.

Wishing I had started 20 years earlier...

posted by wifwaf [20 posts]
16th September 2013 - 21:26

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daddyELVIS wrote:
wifwaf wrote:
You sir are a troll. Get back under your bridge.

Why is someone with a different opinion to you a 'troll'? A bit childish Silly

I believe that Colins' statements are typical of the forum troll. Not because he differs in opinion to me, but because he makes what seem to me to be definitive statements about Chris Horners honesty without a sound basis. I am not name-calling, I am expressing my opinion of his argument. It is an unfortunate side-effect of internet freedom of expression that people can cast aspersions on others with little or no evidence to a large audience with impunity. I don't think it is fair and I don't apologise for arguing the case.

I repeat that I am not a Horner groupie, but I expect a little more intelligence and substance in the debate, even in the post LA wasteland...

Wishing I had started 20 years earlier...

posted by wifwaf [20 posts]
16th September 2013 - 21:33

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Relax, folks.

Re. Horner's performance - without any hard evidence there's no definitive answer. Let's agree to disagree and respect each others' opinions. I'm sure we can discuss it without descending in to personal insults. Please?

The news of the missed test, even there was not a mix-up as stated, should not have been made public anyway.

Simon E's picture

posted by Simon E [1770 posts]
16th September 2013 - 21:37

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wifwaf wrote:

How do I know he has done nothing wrong? I don't. Is that a basis for calling someone a cheat? Gut-feeling doesn't entitle me or anyone else to proclaim his guilt when all we actually know is that he informed USADA in advance of his whereabouts as required, he didn't miss a test, USADA didn't pass his new address details to the testers, and so the testers went to the wrong place.

I am not in this thread to proclaim Horner is clean. My point is simple - posters here are talking as if this report is proof positive that he has cheated. This is poor speculation and flies in the face of the numerous tests he has already undertaken all the way through the Vuelta, which have evidently not proved positive.

I am not a Horner apologist, but I really detest this kind of forum witch-hunt from every armchair expert who can raise a fat finger to the keyboard without having any real evidence other than rumour and deja-vu.

I detest the head in the sand, see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil apologists that allow this sort of thing to go on unquestioningly. That's what happened with Armstrong, and that's what is happening here.

posted by Colin Peyresourde [968 posts]
16th September 2013 - 21:37

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Dogmatism can be expressed on either side of an argument. I am not dogmatic that Horner is clean. I am dogmatic that once you have read the full account of this 'missed' test, it is unfair to presume his guilt. In the meantime I would only add that its a crying shame such an entertaining tour is again overshadowed by controversy, but then again that was true of so many in the past.

Wishing I had started 20 years earlier...

posted by wifwaf [20 posts]
16th September 2013 - 22:04

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Tweet from @PaulKimmage "Chris Horner should be a story worth celebrating. It's not and he has no right to complain. Because you reap what you sow."

Interesting!

posted by daddyELVIS [216 posts]
16th September 2013 - 22:06

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wifwaf wrote:
Dogmatism can be expressed on either side of an argument. I am not dogmatic that Horner is clean. I am dogmatic that once you have read the full account of this 'missed' test, it is unfair to presume his guilt. In the meantime I would only add that its a crying shame such an entertaining tour is again overshadowed by controversy, but then again that was true of so many in the past.

Count me in this group.

posted by Pondo [19 posts]
16th September 2013 - 23:12

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daddyELVIS wrote:
Tweet from @PaulKimmage "Chris Horner should be a story worth celebrating. It's not and he has no right to complain. Because you reap what you sow."

Interesting!


I think the correct word is not 'interesting', but 'unsubstantiated'. Only time will tell.

posted by Pondo [19 posts]
16th September 2013 - 23:15

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Colin Peyresoude wrote:
"And I know when I'm being lied to and there are big holes in this. Although I would like to hear something from USADA."

USADA have spoken and stated that Chris Horner is not suspected of any wrongdoing. So they must be "head in the sand, see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil apologists that allow this sort of thing to go on unquestioningly." Or maybe they are part of the conspiracy.

I don't know when I'm being lied to; it's a fault of mine, I admit (although Chris Horner hasn't personally contacted me on this issue), but I prefer it that way rather than being overly cynical or negative.
I'm with other posters in preferring to presume someone is innocent until proven guilty (it's a good principle, even if it takes a long time as in the case of LA; generally the truth will out) and I guess some will say that these events need to be questioned for the truth to emerge and that's true and I guess that's the job of USADA, WADA et al. But many posters are condemning rather than questioning and keeping an open mind; I think Wiggo hit the nail on the head when he spoke about the Tweeters last year:
'It's easy for them to sit under a pseudonym on Twitter and write that sort of s***, rather than get off their a**** in their own lives and apply themselves and work hard at something and achieve something.
'And that's ultimately it. C**ts!!"
Well said, Sir.

posted by pwake [234 posts]
16th September 2013 - 23:27

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pwake wrote:

I think Wiggo hit the nail on the head when he spoke about the Tweeters last year:
'It's easy for them to sit under a pseudonym on Twitter and write that sort of s***, rather than get off their a**** in their own lives and apply themselves and work hard at something and achieve something.
'And that's ultimately it. C**ts!!"
Well said, Sir.

It's easy for them who can reasonably see that losing weight and muscle down to skeletal levels, so that one can keep pace with the best climbers in the Alps and Pyrenees, shouldn't also result in an improvement in the TT discipline, to the point where nobody else can even get close! And that's ultimately it. C**ts!!

Right, I'm off to put some weight on so I can be competitive at the World ITT Surprise

posted by daddyELVIS [216 posts]
17th September 2013 - 7:23

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wifwaf wrote:
phazon wrote:
wifwaf wrote:
Some of the above comments make me sick. People are so quick to condemn. If you actually look at what has happened here, Horner has done nothing wrong. Whatever other reasons people have for suspecting something is amiss, jumping to conclusions about Horner because the testers cant follow the information he gave them is downright unfair.

And please, don't make excuses like 'they don't work Sundays so wouldn't see the email'...for goodness sake, if they are serious about making out of competition tests, they must check the database before testing someone.

There is gullibility in believing someone must be innocent in the face of incriminating evidence, but its equally credulous to jump to an assumption of guilt when there is no reason to do so.

So quick to condemn? Have you been following cycling for the past few years? How do you know Horner has done nothing wrong? Don't you think there is every reason to be suspicious here? Chris Froome took both barrels during the Tour, and he is someone whose numbers have been rock-solid for years and shown by all sensible measures a natural progression. Here on the other hand, is a guy who has suddenly out performed some of the best in the world, in the toughest GT out there, smiling his way up ridiculous climbs day after day, in a style he has never come near showing before.

Even without this missed-test story, the situation stinks - I hope he is clean, but the only way we can have any idea if he is tested and tested and tested. Stories coming out the day after his win that he's missed a test do not help with that at all.

How do I know he has done nothing wrong? I don't. Is that a basis for calling someone a cheat? Gut-feeling doesn't entitle me or anyone else to proclaim his guilt when all we actually know is that he informed USADA in advance of his whereabouts as required, he didn't miss a test, USADA didn't pass his new address details to the testers, and so the testers went to the wrong place.

I am not in this thread to proclaim Horner is clean. My point is simple - posters here are talking as if this report is proof positive that he has cheated. This is poor speculation and flies in the face of the numerous tests he has already undertaken all the way through the Vuelta, which have evidently not proved positive.

I am not a Horner apologist, but I really detest this kind of forum witch-hunt from every armchair expert who can raise a fat finger to the keyboard without having any real evidence other than rumour and deja-vu.

Well said, not that any reasoned argument will sway any of the head hunters on here.

posted by Beaufort [31 posts]
17th September 2013 - 8:39

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This thread is hilarious. Keep it up. Applause

ColT's picture

posted by ColT [190 posts]
17th September 2013 - 10:19

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Some reasons given for suspecting he's cheating are ridiculous, some of the reasons he is clean are even more so.

I particularly like the one about his team defending him vigorously and looking for compensation. Arf!

I wonder how many time Rider 15 might have seen that move busted out by Bruyneel et al?

posted by farrell [1015 posts]
17th September 2013 - 12:07

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ColT wrote:
This thread is hilarious. Keep it up. Applause

I'm in this group. Party

mingmong's picture

posted by mingmong [176 posts]
17th September 2013 - 14:11

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wifwaf wrote:
How do I know he has done nothing wrong? I don't. Is that a basis for calling someone a cheat? Gut-feeling doesn't entitle me or anyone else to proclaim his guilt when all we actually know is that he informed USADA in advance of his whereabouts as required, he didn't miss a test, USADA didn't pass his new address details to the testers, and so the testers went to the wrong place.

I am not in this thread to proclaim Horner is clean. My point is simple - posters here are talking as if this report is proof positive that he has cheated. This is poor speculation and flies in the face of the numerous tests he has already undertaken all the way through the Vuelta, which have evidently not proved positive.

I am not a Horner apologist, but I really detest this kind of forum witch-hunt from every armchair expert who can raise a fat finger to the keyboard without having any real evidence other than rumour and deja-vu.

I didn't call him a cheat. I said there is every reason to be suspicious given the circumstances. It sounds like we have a similar pov but are expressing it differently.

My point is that if he is clean, then he should be breaking his balls to take every test put in front of him to prove it. Not missing one, for whatever reason, and then buggering off home immediately. In many peoples eyes, the suspicion has only increased, and is now a cloud his win will be under for ever.

The other thing that does not help is how he completely ignored the subject in every Vuelta interview I saw, coming out with airy-fairy shit about 'people should value something they might never see again'. If I was in his position, I would address it head on.

Regardless, it is done, there is no proof. But there is suspicion. And if we stop being suspicious, we have no one else to blame when the next Lance comes along and cleans up

posted by phazon [21 posts]
17th September 2013 - 22:05

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Beaufort wrote:
Well said, not that any reasoned argument will sway any of the head hunters on here.

Head hunters? Read the posts. There is a big difference between saying someone is guilty and suggesting there should be suspicion. If you're not even a little suspicious of this GT win (forget the missed test), then you should go and have a word with Pat, he'll probably have a job for you in the UCI's antidoping team.

Given cyclings past, there has to be questions about his ability to ride like that. Fool me once...

posted by phazon [21 posts]
17th September 2013 - 22:12

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phazon wrote:
wifwaf wrote:
How do I know he has done nothing wrong? I don't. Is that a basis for calling someone a cheat? Gut-feeling doesn't entitle me or anyone else to proclaim his guilt when all we actually know is that he informed USADA in advance of his whereabouts as required, he didn't miss a test, USADA didn't pass his new address details to the testers, and so the testers went to the wrong place.

I am not in this thread to proclaim Horner is clean. My point is simple - posters here are talking as if this report is proof positive that he has cheated. This is poor speculation and flies in the face of the numerous tests he has already undertaken all the way through the Vuelta, which have evidently not proved positive.

I am not a Horner apologist, but I really detest this kind of forum witch-hunt from every armchair expert who can raise a fat finger to the keyboard without having any real evidence other than rumour and deja-vu.

I didn't call him a cheat. I said there is every reason to be suspicious given the circumstances. It sounds like we have a similar pov but are expressing it differently.

My point is that if he is clean, then he should be breaking his balls to take every test put in front of him to prove it. Not missing one, for whatever reason, and then buggering off home immediately. In many peoples eyes, the suspicion has only increased, and is now a cloud his win will be under for ever.

The other thing that does not help is how he completely ignored the subject in every Vuelta interview I saw, coming out with airy-fairy shit about 'people should value something they might never see again'. If I was in his position, I would address it head on.

Regardless, it is done, there is no proof. But there is suspicion. And if we stop being suspicious, we have no one else to blame when the next Lance comes along and cleans up

My last comment on this tired thread:

He did not miss a test. He informed USADA where he would be, they failed to tell the Spanish testers this information. He has not avoided a test, the testers failed to follow the information he gave them.

Its reasonable not to trust Horner or anyone else, unless you know them personally and can do so with authority, but equally don't take a news-story like this and misinterpret it to bolster your pre-supposition that he must be cheating.

And just for a moment ask, what is so suspicious about a family-oriented, mature rider wishing to spend his victory night with his wife, given that he DID inform the relevant authorities of his whereabouts, or that an American wishes to return to the USA shortly after being away from his family for about a month. Seriously, do you think these guys are robots?

I don't want to add any more to this post, Im sorry if you think people like myself are gullible. I am not gullible, but I am careful not to take reports like this at face value and jump to conclusions that fit my prejudices. I just think that a lot of trusting people who swallowed the Lance myth have swung to the other side of the pendulum and are determined that any outstanding or unexpected performance is proof of cheating. Its another extreme, and in my view ruins the whole ethos of sport when you think about it.

Isn't the Tour of Britain exciting? Much more interesting than this rubbish... Wink

Wishing I had started 20 years earlier...

posted by wifwaf [20 posts]
18th September 2013 - 20:17

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