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Sunday Times: Strava records achieved by speeding and ignoring red lights

Newspaper tried to beat cyclist's times sticking to 'legal' speed limits - and failed...

The Sunday Times has investigated Strava, the online social network for athletes, where people can compete against one another's GPS timings for selected segments of road, and concluded that the website "is encouraging recklessness on the roads and inflaming tensions between cyclists, pedestrians and motorists."

The newspaper went to some lengths to prove that cyclists were 'breaking speed limits' and potentially jumping red lights to hit record times.

The article read: "Two riders, identified as Tris M and George B, are recorded as averaging 41mph on a short section of the South Circular near Barnes. The only way of displacing them is by again breaking the speed limit.

"The Sunday Times tested three routes in central London, each of them ridden more than 20,000 times by Strava users, to establish whether it was possible to match cyclists’ times without running red lights or breaching the Highway Code.

"In each case, a motorbike, travelling at the 30mph speed limit, clocked slower times than those recorded by the cycling kings and queens, as well as cyclists much further down the leaderboard on each route."

As Bikehub notes, there is no such offence as speeding while on a bicycle.

The site reads: "It's an in-joke in cycling that cyclists can't be booked for speeding (see below) but can be fined for "pedalling furiously."

The Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 states:  “It shall not be lawful for a person to drive a motor vehicle on a restricted road at a speed exceeding 30 miles per hour.” (RTRA 81.1) and “A person who drives a motor vehicle on a road at a speed exceeding a limit imposed by or under any enactment to which this section applies shall be guilty of an offence.” (RTRA 89.1)

"The speed limits in Royal Parks are also intended for motor vehicles only. According to The Royal Parks and Other Open Spaces (Amendment) etc. Regulations 2010 “vehicle” means a mechanically propelled vehicle intended or adapted for use on a road.

"While, technically, cyclists do not have to adhere to speed limits, in practice it is most sensible and safe to do so. Cyclists who breach the speed limit may not be prosecuted for a speeding offence but, as stated above, can be prosecuted for “cycling furiously” or “wanton and furious driving.”"

The article quotes Ben Lowe from VeloViewer, who makes it clear that he not only informed the Sunday Times that speeding on a bike isn't technically possible, but also told them that the data on Strava is unreliable. His excellent debunking of the Sunday Times piece can be found on the VeloViewer blog.

Strava told the Sunday Times: “We continue to encourage good behaviour within our community and strive for our users to understand the responsibility that they have to follow the law and to use common sense. You are in charge of your own safety and the safety of those around you when you are riding.”

Last year we reported how a family in San Francisco is suing Strava for encouraging an American man - who died trying to beat his speed record - to speed.

William ‘Kim’ Flint, from Oakland, had just lost his Strava ‘King of the Mountains’ title on a local downhill stretch when he crashed into a car nearly two years ago, apparently trying to keep his record.

The media also discovered last week that Lance Armstrong was still racing in the only place available to him following his lifetime ban from the sport - Strava - where he posted seven KOM titles in just one day.

According to the Wall Street Journal (like the Sunday Times published by News International): "Armstrong's Strava page bears in the profile-photograph space the image of a cannon above the words, "Come and Take It."

"His one-line Strava biography: "According to my rivals, peers, and teammates I won the Tour de France 7 times." Since his Oprah appearance, Armstrong has continued updating the page. He couldn't be reached for comment for this story."

But Michael Horvath, chief executive officer of the cycling website Strava, said he had no plans to ban Armstrong, and only hours later it appeared that the disgraced cyclist had removed his own profile.

As Carlton Reid notes on his reading of the Sunday Times piece, it's only surprising it took them so long to notice.

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40 comments

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farrell | 11 years ago
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My issue with Strava is that my commute to work can vary between just over 5 miles to just under 7, despite taking the same route. Endomondo seems to be more consistent.

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farrell | 11 years ago
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Has nobody else thought of the possibility that the writer of this article fancied himself as a bit of a sprint merchant and whilst blowing out of his arse, checked his results only to see he was miles down the leaderboard and then decided in a hissy fit that it wasn't down to him being too slow, but that everyone else was cheating/jumping reds etc.

Just a thought...

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dave atkinson | 11 years ago
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I tried using Strava, but I gave up on it pretty quickly. For 2 basic reasons:

1) a bike GPS just isn't accurate enough to reliably record you across a short distance, especially when Strava only uses recorded GPS positions and doesn't interpolate to the start and finish of the actual segment. the segment in question (just 290m long) is a perfect example, as ben so excellently explains in his piece, but even on a long climb i know people who've ridden together and had times more than 10 seconds different.

2) anything that allows a large user base to create their own data invariably fills up with rubbish. Strava's not well moderated or peer reviewed, nor is it currently clever enough to weed out multiple segments on the same climb. so it gets increasingly difficult to get meaningful data back.

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dynoben replied to dave atkinson | 11 years ago
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Dave: thanks for linking to my article. You can always view your Strava data on my site which gives you far more options for analysis and comparisons between your own segment and ride data rather than just against other people along with better maps and pretty pictures (like this: http://veloviewer.com/segment/780395/athlete/306128 )! Here's my data http://veloviewer.com/athlete/306128 along with a list of all segments I've covered http://veloviewer.com/athlete/306128/segments to give you more of an idea about what it does.
The calculated relative power field is the most useful for me and is what I built the site for in the first place: which climbs should I be able to push myself harder on.

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dynoben | 11 years ago
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I've put together an article explaining why the headline fuelling "41mph" statistic is actually a not quite so shocking 31mph once you remove those riders with GPS errors: http://veloviewer.com/blog/41mph-the-evidence-against-the-sunday-times-a...
When interviewed last Thursday I pointed out to them how unreliable these speeds can be on Strava (he actually asked how the top speed could be over 100mph on the segment they mention) but chose to ignore the advice. (Although at least they didn't use the 100mph+ speed for their headline!) I also pointed out to him at that time that it wasn't illegal to go faster than the speed limit on the bike to which he said he would get the legal people to look into it.
Also worth noting that The Sunday Times itself was a contributing factor for those of us wanting to turn the roads into racetracks: http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/ireland/article1111334.ece
@VeloViewer/Ben Lowe

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Dave Ody replied to dynoben | 11 years ago
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They'd already made up their mind as to what they wanted to write. Nothing you said could really change that. In essence there is no story here.

Sadly for cyclists, this fuels even greater contempt from the 'ill-informed' motorists who read this.

DaveO
@SouthernOwl

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dave atkinson replied to dynoben | 11 years ago
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dynoben wrote:

I've put together an article explaining why the headline fuelling "41mph" statistic is actually a not quite so shocking 31mph once you remove those riders with GPS errors: http://veloviewer.com/blog/41mph-the-evidence-against-the-sunday-times-a...
When interviewed last Thursday I pointed out to them how unreliable these speeds can be on Strava (he actually asked how the top speed could be over 100mph on the segment they mention) but chose to ignore the advice. (Although at least they didn't use the 100mph+ speed for their headline!) I also pointed out to him at that time that it wasn't illegal to go faster than the speed limit on the bike to which he said he would get the legal people to look into it.

Thanks Ben, I've added a link to your piece into the main article too

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a.jumper | 11 years ago
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The link sends me to a list of news headlines - have they pulled the story, is it because I haven't paid, or do they hate mobile phones?

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Rigobear | 11 years ago
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Interesting stuff I think the Sunday Times point was that Strava is directly responsible by encouraging this behaviour just like having cars that do a top speed over 30 mph directly encourages drivers to break speed limits. Or having pubs and supermarkets encourages drink driving. Nothing to do with individual decision and free will  3

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mike_ibcyclist | 11 years ago
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There are some insane speeds on some of the segments I do in and around Sydney Australia. I used to live in Switzerland and Strava made a lot more sense to me in the mountains than it does here. People have become a little obsessed with the whole KOM thing. As for fake times I have to laugh at some of the more obvious blunders where people forget to switch off the Garmin before they pack it into the car.

I like Strava and enjoy using it as a fitness tool. Use it sensibly and it's very valuable.

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pwake | 11 years ago
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I like Strava. I live in the Texas and have lots of mates in the UK still and it's a great way of seeing what we are doing, how training's going etc. I think flagging segments could kill it though; I've definitely seen some flagged that I would in no way consider dangerous.

And not sure of its real relevance to this story, but the cannon with 'Come & Take It' that LA used for his profile picture is the Gonzales Flag; it's a common sign of Texas pride here. It's a good story of when the Mexicans tried to take one of their cannons back and were defeated by the Texas rebels. Could easily be taken out of context in this case if you didn't know your Texas history...

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pmr | 11 years ago
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What a load of old balls.
Only div s chase KOMs on downhill sections and likewise those with any traffic furniture on them.
Those people are just plain idiots whether riding a bike, driving a car or walking down the street.
Same old typecasting of cyclists - bore off.

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sorebones replied to pmr | 11 years ago
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I'm sorry, but that statement is a load of old balls! Not all of us live in cities. There are loads of perfectly safe downhill sections around my way - good roads, visibility etc and with no schools and very little traffic.

I only use Strava these days to compete against myself, there are so many dubious stats on leader-boards to take it seriously.

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Squiggle replied to pmr | 11 years ago
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pmr wrote:

What a load of old balls.
Only div s chase KOMs on downhill sections

Thanks, guess I'm a div then. I agree with you in principal however for long, technical descents, a Strava segment is very useful especially if you want to improve your descending (Believe me I need to). So I'm currently working a segment (that I didn't put up) which I privately chopped up into smaller parts to see where I need to improve. I won't get near the KOM as it was set in a UCI pro-conti race and because the fastest part passes very close to a house so I always back off (I hope you approve). Just an example.

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mikeprytherch | 11 years ago
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Horse shit like this makes my bloody boil, every day with or without Strava people try to beat other people in their group, their previous best times recorded in the old fashion way with a watch, this is not new, even now my mates goad me into going faster because up and down hill, for some its an essentially part riding, because some people don't like it tough, I don't these people averaging 10mph do I, I wish all the do-gooders would F**k off and let riders ride how they have ridden for years... before we had stuff like GPS.

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koko56 replied to mikeprytherch | 11 years ago
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mikeprytherch wrote:

Horse shit like this makes my bloody boil, every day with or without Strava people try to beat other people in their group, their previous best times recorded in the old fashion way with a watch, this is not new, even now my mates goad me into going faster because up and down hill, for some its an essentially part riding, because some people don't like it tough, I don't these people averaging 10mph do I, I wish all the do-gooders would F**k off and let riders ride how they have ridden for years... before we had stuff like GPS.

Exactly, let the naysayers naysay.

//i45.tinypic.com/29eoped.jpg)

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northstar | 11 years ago
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The ST needs to make it up it's mind (not illegal for riders to "speed" either but you knew that eh NI)

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Raleigh | 11 years ago
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Apparently I was travelling at 389.6km/h on a Regent's Park Segment this morning, and still failed to get the KOM.

Strange.

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koko56 | 11 years ago
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iamelectron - seems legit concern. Sounds really busy, but then is it busy all the time?

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brakesmadly | 11 years ago
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So iamelectron, I suppose you also agree that electric cars are dangerous to pedestrians?

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andyp | 11 years ago
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So, the riders, rather than the segment. People need to stop being dicks, rather than segment needs flagging.

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andyp | 11 years ago
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In what way is it dangerous? Is it not the idiots riding it which are the dangerous aspect?

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Vili Er replied to andyp | 11 years ago
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andyp wrote:

In what way is it dangerous? Is it not the idiots riding it which are the dangerous aspect?

Of course it is! In this case you've got mini Cavs competing for the fastest time on a road that has cars parked on either side and space for one car to either go up, or down the street and a traffic calming measure at either end, a primary school and a blind corner. It takes one person (a child?) or car door to open...it's dangerous.

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Colin Peyresourde | 11 years ago
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The thing that narcs me slightly is the quote of 20,000 cyclists on the segment. You might not be competing for a segment, but because you ride through it you're logged on it. Probably only 5% of those on that segment were aiming to 'compete' or log something special.

I only check my times against climbs, though if I get a podium it makes me interested to see what the segment was. It's a good site to just log a ride though.

Interesting to see Liestrong took his profile down. Actually I don't care if he keeps it up, but I can understand he doesn't need the scrutiny right now.

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koko56 | 11 years ago
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Completely agree at the retarded 1m etc sprints in traffic which depends mainly on catching a good draft be it uphill or flat. Also lately there's been a mass of almost duplicate and quite small segments as no doubt more and more people begin to use it.

Personally there are a few segments around my area that are through traffic lights and flat. If a light changes for me and I'm going well I think "well there goes my chance". The same on a hill with light or junctions - if something slows me down I try another time.

I like going fast downhill and if I get a "KOM" doing it then so be it, but to take big risks at 50mph for the sake of that KOM is beyond me. Sure it probably encourages more risks if you are trying to beat a long downhill mixed with almost flats etc but it's no doubt safer than doing that in a race rendering whole article redundant.

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nick5jones | 11 years ago
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I personally haven't read the article mentioned (wouldn't chuck that paper on the fire!) but correct me if I'm wrong this is the paper a certain Top Gear presenter writes for?
The very TV programme where a car will race another mode of transport across a set distance in which 9/10 times the car wins! Are you telling me this sets a good example? and is done by driving within the speed limits?

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JonMack | 11 years ago
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The hint's in the name, KOM. No mountain = no point. Descending segments or "sprints" are just ego boosts that people set up for themselves. If you want to race, go and get your BC license and find a local crit, Strava is a great idea and I love the power analysis features they've added recently which are making software like Golden Cheetah almost redundant, but the people who feel the need to set up segments to make themselves feel better about their riding are just pathetic. No matter who you are, there's almost always going to be someone faster than you.

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step-hent replied to JonMack | 11 years ago
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JonMack wrote:

The hint's in the name, KOM. No mountain = no point.

That rules out pretty much all of the UK segments then. And Netherlands. And Belgium.

Don't be ridiculous. The issue is with dangerous segments - just because a segment is flat (or downhill) doesnt make it dangerous. Last I checked, I still needed to make an effort riding my bike on the flat and on most downhills, and therefore I can improve my times by being fitter, which is exactly what Strava is aiming at. |Not everyone trains solely for climbing.

As has been pointed out above, lots of people behaved like idiots on the road long before Strava came along. I doubt whether the number has been increased significantly, but the answer is not to ban Strava segments, it's to tackle the actual dangerous behaviour.

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Gkam84 | 11 years ago
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Its slowing being killed off by people like the above commenter. (iamelectron)

There were around 10 segments around my local routes not long ago, but people keep flagging them for no reason, they are on decent roads and with no speed limits or dangerous sections....

If idiots keep flagging segments, with no way to have them unflagged, its killing the whole idea of Strava off.

But I do think anything in cites should be taken off.

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Vili Er replied to Gkam84 | 11 years ago
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Gkam84 wrote:

Its slowing being killed off by people like the above commenter. (iamelectron)

There were around 10 segments around my local routes not long ago, but people keep flagging them for no reason, they are on decent roads and with no speed limits or dangerous sections....

If idiots keep flagging segments, with no way to have them unflagged, its killing the whole idea of Strava off.

But I do think anything in cites should be taken off.

So you're saying that doing 28 mph through a narrow village street that has a max speed of 20 mph is fine? And you're calling me an idiot? It was flagged because it was dangerous.

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