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Lance Armstrong confession… Wiggins and Cav have their say (or don't)

Bradley Wiggins under Twitter attack after references to 1990s and Paul Kimmage, while Mark Cavendish goes off the deep end in Belgium

Mark Cavendish and Bradley Wiggins have both been in the spotlight after being asked their reactions to Lance Armstrong’s confession in doping to Oprah Winfrey, part one of which is due to be aired on Friday morning in the UK on, of all places, the Discovery Channel. It will also be streamed live.

Wiggins, speaking to Sky News from Team Sky’s training camp in Mallorca, Wiggins said that the team wasn’t too concerned because they were concentrating on the season ahead.

He went on: But you’ve seen the reaction to it the last few months and there’s a lot of angry people about that are taking their frustrations and venting their anger in all different directions.

“But they need that closure in their life because they've been battling for so long for this.

"It will be a great day for a lot of people and quite a sad day for the sport in some ways," he said of Armstrong’s reported confession.

"But I think it has been a sad couple of months for the sport in that sense,” he added. “The 90s are pretty much a write-off now."

While that decade had been blighted by doping with use of EPO widespread in the peloton well before the Festina scandal of 1998, Wiggins’ remarks provoked widespread criticism on Twitter.

Several users pointed out that the first of Armstrong’s seven Tour de France wins that he has now been stripped of only happened in the final year of the decade.

Wiggins himself has been elevated to third in the 2009 Tour de France after Armstrong was stripped of all results dating back to August 1998.

Twitter users also focused on comments that Wiggins made about Paul Kimmage, although his remarks about the Irish former pro cyclist turned journalist are not in an edited version of the interview posted to the Sky News website.

However, that segment was included in audio of the interview included in Irish radio station Newstalk.ie’s Off The Ball show.

Earlier this month, in an interview published in German on newspaper Frankurter Allgemeine's website, FAZ.net, Kimmage said: "I don't know anyone who could say that the last Tour de France was totally convincing. If you apply the same standards to Bradley Wiggins as to Lance Armstrong, there are alarming similarties."

He went on: "Look how their teams are dominant. There are four, five riders who ride very strongly for three weeks without a bad day. The question is, is that logical?'

Referring to that interview, Wiggins said yesterday: “We saw last week with Paul Kimmage with me and the team, he’s just eaten up with it, and I think to people like that it’s just going to mean a hell of a lot. What they do with their lives after he does admit it is anyone’s guess."

After playing the interview, the Irish radio show’s presenters criticised Wiggins for having singled out Kimmage and, in their words – not his, as has been said – describing him as “bitter.” They also said that given his status in the sport, Wiggins should be much more forthright about his views of Armstrong and should be hailing a great day for the sport.

“What it has to do with Paul Kimmage and how bitter Paul Kimmage is, is an eye-opener for me,” said one.

In a series of tweets today, Kimmage said: “Interesting that Bradley Wiggins is still following the Lance Armstrong blueprint for success:

"1 Ignore the message 2 Attack the messenger

“If I still had a job [he was made redundant by The Sunday Times a year ago tomorrow], I'd be camped outside the Sky training camp in Majorca and would not go away until Wiggins adressed the message... the hiring of Gert Leinders, and the sacking of four key members of staff since he won the Tour.

Kimmage concluded: “Oh, last thing Bradley, if you would like to address those issues in an interview, I'd be more than happy to sit down with you.”

Even before he won the Tour in July, Wiggins learnt that being favourite for the race meant that his performance would be scrutinised from all angles and that questions would be asked about how he achieved it.

That’s unsurprising given the history of some of the men who have stood on top of the podium over the last couple of decades.

Until he and Team Sky manage to satisfy some of their more vocal critics, the hard questions will continue to be asked – and Kimmage will be foremost among those who want to ask them.

Meanwhile Cavendish turned the air blue at the Omega Pharma-Quick Step presentation in Ghent last night when he was repeatedly asked his opinion regarding Lance Armstrong’s reported confession.

His frustration is perhaps understandable – he was there after all to be officially presented to the public alongside his new team mates including Tom Boonen – and it’s also one that won’t surprise seasoned Cav-watchers.

According to ITV Sport, the former world champion had in fact already replied to two questions put to him on the subject.

http://www.itv.com/news/2013-01-15/cyclist-mark-cavendishs-frustration-b...

“There's been reports that he's confessed to doping but I haven't seen any interviews yet, so until then I can't really comment," he said in reply to the first.

Then, when asked if he would be watching the interview, he explained he wouldn’t, since he’d be travelling to Argentina where he is riding the Tour de San Luis, which starts next week.

ITV Sport says Cavendish then took a member of team staff to task, saying, “Why was I left alone there with that guy asking about Lance? One of you should have been around then.”

Despite that, it seems no-one thought to forewarn reporters taking part in a subsequent round of interviews, and when he was again asked his opinion Cavendish, whose autobiography Boy Racer, carries the two word quote “Cool Kid” from Armstrong on the cover of the paperback version, really blew his stack.

"**** off, seriously **** off if you're asking about this," he is reported to have said, before asking one of the team’s staff, “Can you get him away please. Please get this guy away. He just wants to talk about Lance, **** off.”

[We have a hunch the words asterisked by ITV all started with 'F' - ed]

Simon joined road.cc as news editor in 2009 and is now the site’s community editor, acting as a link between the team producing the content and our readers. A law and languages graduate, published translator and former retail analyst, he has reported on issues as diverse as cycling-related court cases, anti-doping investigations, the latest developments in the bike industry and the sport’s biggest races. Now back in London full-time after 15 years living in Oxford and Cambridge, he loves cycling along the Thames but misses having his former riding buddy, Elodie the miniature schnauzer, in the basket in front of him.

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72 comments

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Lacticlegs | 11 years ago
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Incidentally, anyone know where I can see the ascent times for 2012 tour and others?

Average speeds pretty easy to google - not having so much luck with the climbs...

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Tour Le Tour | 11 years ago
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Personally, there is only one rider I am 100% sure doesn't deliberately dope, and it is me. I am pretty sure about my better mates, but there is always that tiny chance. Wiggins could sit down with Kimmage for an hour or a month, and I still wouldn't be sure of him. I spoke with Froome a few times in Spain in 2012 and he seems a nice bloke, but I would want to live with him for six months before being reasonably confident he is clean.

And it isn't just Sky riders, I feel exactly the same about Garikoitz Bravo. If you don't know who he is, well, it is hardly surprising, according to the Fantasy Cycling stats (where I got his name by picking the first guy I had never heard of) he hasn't really won much lately and is ranked 899th in the game. So why do I suspect he dopes? I don't. There are a few guys I have relatively unfounded suspicions about, but I am hopeful that most of the peleton is clean. Unfortunately after decades of cheats, I just don't know it for any of them. Until me or one of those better mates wins the TdF (which, I have to admit, seems pretty unlikely at this stage) I won't have any real confidence it was a clean win. And I suspect that there will always be cheats. I applaude Kimmage for sticking to his guns re Armstrong in the face of overwhelming "evidence" to the contrary, I am happy for him to keep doing so for Wiggins and everyone else he suspects. I don't think Wiggins is dirty just because Kimmage draws some comparisons, and don't think he is dirty just because he has won some bike races. I've beaten people I knew to be cheats, and done it clean, so it can happen. But I won't buy any team kit (the last I bought was a pair of Festina gloves, in early 1998...), unless I am on the team.

The problem is, you can be proven dirty, but you can never be proven clean. And all those guys who are making millions of euro from cycling have to live with that, and the subsequent knowledge that there will always be people who doubt them, while they make their money.

In the case where they are later found to be cheats, then I applaude hunting the b******s down and extracting every cent, every jersey, every ribbon and every OBE they ever made from that cheating. Before then they can deal with it any way they want, and hopefully they will be smart enough to know what effect it will have on their futures. I am glad that there was a reporter pushing the point at the presentation of the new star rider for OPQS, I if it had been me being presented then I would have told that reporter to f*** off as well.

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Sam1 replied to Lacticlegs | 11 years ago
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Lacticlegs wrote:

Someone please help me out here.

Let me preface this by saying - i'm serious, I really would like to borrow some of your knowledge.

I love cycling - always have, and I desperately want to be a believer. But I'm having some trouble and here's why:

It is generally agreed that EPO and similar blood boosters can improve performance by as much as 15% - hence why it was a game changer from the early 90's onward.

If the peloton is really clean (or at least cleaner) then surely we should be seeing a drop-off in the average speeds for the TdF now, no?

But we haven't. Cadel's winning average speed in 2011 was 39.79kmh.

Brad's in 2012 was 39.83kmh.

These are pretty much the same speeds that Lance Armstrong was posting in his reign - faster than the year 2000 in fact, and fractionally slower than the other years.

Please help me here - I so don't want to believe that Brad et al are also doping...but Kimmage has a point (however unpleasantly he makes it).

What am I missing? Surely there are no technological improvements in bikes and equipment (or for that matter training and nutrition) that can account for a clean rider performing at the same level as the doping king? Not in just 5 years...

Anyone?

Its not at all useful or pertinent to compare overall avg speeds for a GT, there are just too many variables. And they dont even out in the end, that's not the case.

Eg:

parcours
how many kms TT (or TTT) vs mountain stages vs flat vs rolling etc
weather can have an effect
just how hard the race is ridden by the field
strength of the field

Comparing a climb has some more pertinence.

There are some stats knocking around for the Peyragudes climb. Stage 17 of the Tour last year, Wiggins and Froome climbed it at something like 1m 30s slower than Pantani in 98 and with considerable lower watts and VAM stats

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Sam1 replied to Lacticlegs | 11 years ago
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Lacticlegs wrote:

Incidentally, anyone know where I can see the ascent times for 2012 tour and others?

Average speeds pretty easy to google - not having so much luck with the climbs...

The Science of Sport website has very good analysis and commentary across various sports including cycling.

This is particularly interesting reading - power of output when the Tour hit the mountains.

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2012/07/tour-in-mountains-analysis-discu...

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Sam1 replied to Colin Peyresourde | 11 years ago
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post deleted

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Sam1 replied to Colin Peyresourde | 11 years ago
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Colin Peyresourde wrote:
stumps wrote:

You will find in all sports that as training methods, nutrition and general lifestyle of athletes gets better so do their times etc etc.

Look at runners, constantly breaking records and getting faster, swimmers, footballers playing longer despite playing more games, rugby players fitter than ever. The list goes on and you could say some will have cheated through drugs but a very small %. The same goes for cyclists, they are getting fitter, better prepared, better kit and other team members virtually killing themselves on climbs to make it easier for the likes of Brad and Froome, hence quicker times. Remember as well this years Tour had 2 long time trials which Brad excels at and this would increase his overall speed rather than having say another mountain top finish.

It's naive to think that other athletes don't use the same freely available drugs when competing. There are numerous cases of athletes from all sports abusing drugs. Football even has a problem. I don't know if you remember Jaap Stam and Edgar Davids receiving suspensions. Unfortunately drug testing is very unfashionable and not particularly reliable. Who wants to defrock a national champion idolised by a nation?

Don't believe the old routine of better training. If that was the case you'd have trickle down from the pros sooner or later. Better training is the smoke and mirrors of our age. More telemetry helps, but the gains you talk of are not substantial. If you followed the whole Armstrong affair he ran the 'marginal' gains racket that Sky now do, claiming the best equipment. It's a marketing mans dream and lines the pockets of the stars and the manufacturer.

I like to believe this stuff, but it doesn't mean I'm not sceptical too.

Colin, I'll give you an example of one of the things that Sky do in the way of training that many teams cant or dont mirror.

Sky are able to take several of their top riders out of race programmes during the season for multiple training blocks together - like Wiggins, Froome, Porte, Rogers, Pate, Suitsou. Thanks to the depth of their squad, they're able to do this and still field decent teams for the races in the meantime. They provide them on these blocks with full on back up and support staff - soigner(s), mechanics, DS, coach, driver, even chef. They can fork out for the flights and hotel accommodation for all for these training blocks during the season. They can fund taking this approach. Other teams either cant afford to do this kind of thing, or see no reason to change they way they've always changed, or choose to spend most of their money in other ways (other wealthy teams eg BMC spend more of their budget on riders than Sky does, actually - Sky spends more than teams on support and coaching staff).

To illustrate: one journo who was with some of the Sky tour team for a particular training block in France/ Spain in 2010/11 tells the story of the Sky guys training on the same roads and at the same time as Contador - he was riding on his own and just had one back up car with him, whereas they had a number of team riders and a strong support and backroom team.

There are different ways of evolving the way that a team trains.

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Decster | 11 years ago
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Sam1, you sound exactly like Bob Stapleton, Bruyneel and Armstrong when they tried to explain how Armstrong was able to win his tours.

Sorry not buying it.

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Bigfoz | 11 years ago
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Sir Sideburns (unfortunately for him) has a responsibility as the foremost rider of his generation to do what it takes not just to win clean, but to be seen to win clean.

If that means sharing a room with Kimmage through the training and racing for a year, why not? If Kimmage came out and said "Yep, I take it back - Brad and the gang are clean as a whistle" it would be a huge step forward not just for Sir Sideburns and Sky, but all cyclists and the sport itself.

Then we just need to unload the w*nkers at the UCI. Maybe then we can open up the engineering side of cycling some.

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Sam1 replied to Decster | 11 years ago
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Decster wrote:

Sam1, you sound exactly like Bob Stapleton, Bruyneel and Armstrong when they tried to explain how Armstrong was able to win his tours.

Sorry not buying it.

I was responding to the nonsensical post that there are no gains to be made from applyng different training methods. No skin off my nose whether 'you 'buy' what I was saying in that post, or whether you refuse to believe evidence to the contrary that things are evolving and that some teams are leading that. Keep on distrusting every winning performance you see over the coming years, irrespective of lack of evidence to prove a team is dirty. Not much of a way to follow pro cycling, but, hey, your choice.

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martib | 11 years ago
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Well done Cav and Wiggo there are those in the media that feel that they can run round throwing accusations around and receive no flack. If Kimmage wants to stick his head above the parapet and level these accusations at Sky then show us your proof, instead of trying to make a name by being controversial veiled statements.
It is time the media started concentrating on the accomplishments of the present and stopped dredging up the dross from the past.

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harry01 | 11 years ago
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It is a shame that Froome was not allowed to 'race' properly.
I watched the entire Vuelta when Froome came second and he was so much stronger than Wiggins in most areas even beating Wiggins in a TT.
If you watch the TDF 12 it is obvious that Froome was stronger than Wiggins and could have won the race on the climbs. Wiggins and Nabili would not not have been able to stay with Froome.
A case of the stronger man not winning.

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Simon_MacMichael | 11 years ago
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It might have been more of a dilemma had Froome not lost that time on Stage 1, but fact is Wiggins would still have taken chunks out of him in the time trials.

There is also the issue of what Contador once described as the race being won in the hotel - for two weeks after getting the maillot jaune, it was Wiggins, not Froome, who had to spend time dealing with the post-race protocols including testing and press conferences, rather than getting straight back for a massage, food, rest etc.

His earlier experience in taking race lead at Paris-Nice, the Dauphine and Romandie meant it was second nature by the time the Tour came around, so less of a disruption/distraction, and I'd expect Sky to aim to do the same with Froome in his pre-Tour programme.

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