Tiso 12-speed wireless transmission finally breaks cover + video

Prototypes have been knocking about for a year but now it's live on their site... sort of

by Dave Atkinson   December 12, 2012  

Tiso 12-speed groupset - cropped

Tiso have finally broken cover with their 12-speed wireless transmission. That's one more cog than either Shimano or Campag, plus you get wireless shifting too. Interested? We are too, but details are a bit patchy at the moment.

The prototypes have been around for a bit; Bikerumor saw them as early as September last year. They weren't wireless at that point but that was always the plan, and the system that's been announced can run on either radio frequencies (2.4GHz control frequencies, most likely) or via Bluetooth connectivity. The mechs themselves are actuator-controlled, with a battery supplying the power; that needs to be wired to the mechs, of course, so it isn't entirely wire-free. The available spec suggests that the power is supplied by AAA rechargeable cells, opening up the possibility of stopping at the garage if you find yourself out of gear power...

The vid shows the gears being controlled with a keyfob-esque controller as well as with Tiso's own lever; presumably the levers contain a separate battery or they'll need to be wired to the main battery too, pretty much negating any benefit of wireless other than the ability to run multiple shifters in any position. For radio transmission that's not so much of an issue, as it's just a quick pulse and even a button cell should last for ages. Bluetooth, on the other hand, requires a constant connection and so drains more juice. The gears are actuated from the Tiso lever via a rocker switch; press the top section to change up (presumably) and the bottom bit to change down. Tiso were also planning to make it controllable via an iPhone app when they talked to Bikerumor, although the beneifts of that are unclear.

The 12-speed cassette is Tiso's own. There's no word on what freehub standard it uses, but the mechs have settings to cope with 10- and 11-speed Campag and Shimano setups as well as the own-brand cassette. That's all we have to go on for now, really – who's in, and who's out?

41 user comments

Latest 30 commentsNewest firstBest ratedAll

atlaz wrote:
I always subscribe to the Little Red Riding Hood approach. In most situations one gear is too big, one too small, one just right..

Goldilocks...

posted by tarquin_foxglove [80 posts]
12th December 2012 - 19:51

12 Likes

Ooh. One minute too late.

nowasps's picture

posted by nowasps [246 posts]
12th December 2012 - 19:53

9 Likes

Glad to see I'm not the only fairytale pedant, just the slowest.

posted by tarquin_foxglove [80 posts]
12th December 2012 - 19:53

9 Likes

I thought it was Alice in wonderland who did the too big, too small schtick.

Anyway, I'm Duncan Bannatyne, and I'm out. I've got my cables set up nicely and my finger doesn't run out of battery.

posted by Nick T [806 posts]
12th December 2012 - 20:14

11 Likes

Call me a smelly old hippy but one of the things i love about bikes is their relatively low impact on the environment.
What with all this new technology that runs from batteries and an on going reliance of electricity we, as cyclists, are in danger of just perpetuating the relentless use of nasty heavy metals and chemicals involved in the production of batteries.
All this electronic shifting is all very seductive and all but lets be part of the solution and not part of the problem eh?

posted by Some Fella [749 posts]
12th December 2012 - 20:15

14 Likes

You are a

Some Fella wrote:
smelly old hippy
and this stuff is cool. If your bike is cool you will want to ride it more and drive less. You have now offset your batteries.

The thing you should be worrying about is the inbuilt obsolescence you have just added to your bike. You are now riding a washing machine and it is bound to break within 18 months and just after the warranty expires. The real cost will be getting this stuff stripped off and a nice mech system put back on.


Suffering from Low Cadence.

bikeboy76's picture

posted by bikeboy76 [1264 posts]
12th December 2012 - 20:23

10 Likes

You could have lots of fun changing someone else's gears for them ... remotely. Devil

Nic

posted by nbrus [279 posts]
12th December 2012 - 20:36

7 Likes

I don't remember any bicycles in Goldilocks. It's more likely to have been Little Red Riding Hood: the clue's in the name.

Noli porcum linguere

captain_slog's picture

posted by captain_slog [267 posts]
12th December 2012 - 20:57

12 Likes

The discussions about the lines being better with no cables will only hold true with wireless actuated brakes into the bargain!

Nice idea though, and when it's gen 4, robust and with an easily inside frame hideable battery pack, that is charged with an efficient (it can't be very frictionless and generate power) hub mounted altenator/dynamo with those actuated brakes, then I might consider leaving cables behind.

Not sure I would ever need 12 speed though.

posted by CarbonBreaker [80 posts]
12th December 2012 - 21:08

14 Likes

aslongasicycle wrote:
It might work superbly. But they forgot to make it PRETTY! Form and function, innit?

That could be deliberate. There's an old saying in engineering design about how to make a product look efficient; "It don't work, but at least it's ugly".

posted by The Rumpo Kid [590 posts]
12th December 2012 - 21:46

14 Likes

Your phone will connect to this system via bluetooth. You can then upload your planned ride to an app. and by anticipating the gradient using GPS and using historical data gathered from previous rides via HRM and Power Output Meters and having ensured you prepared properly over a number of days prior to the ride itself by working out the best diet for you, will then calculate the optimum gear for you and automatically change it to ensure you complete the ride as fresh as possible. You could of course adjust the difficulty rating. It will be like your own personal trainer. It could also be charged using a dynamo so you wouldn't even need batteries.

posted by raggatip [2 posts]
12th December 2012 - 21:59

13 Likes

That sounds utterly, skull crushingly, depressingly dull what you've described there raggatip. It's so clinical there's almost no point even going out, you may as well stick a DVD on and pretend you're going on a ride if you want to switch your mind that far to the off position.

posted by Nick T [806 posts]
12th December 2012 - 22:17

13 Likes

The way racing is going the DS will have the remote in the car...

TheHatter's picture

posted by TheHatter [810 posts]
12th December 2012 - 23:23

13 Likes

I think raggatip may have been joking.

As for children's stories:
My my grandmama what big gears you have!
All the better for ripping your legs off in 53x11 my dear.

Last night I would have considered trading a very loud baby for a really nice bike.

posted by notfastenough [3123 posts]
13th December 2012 - 0:09

10 Likes

Joke or not, it's still a disturbing prospect.

posted by Nick T [806 posts]
13th December 2012 - 0:36

8 Likes

Seriously how many gears are enough? It seems an interesting idea however the need to run power wires kind of kills the whole point of wireless shifting to me.

new-to-cycling's picture

posted by new-to-cycling [47 posts]
13th December 2012 - 1:03

12 Likes

First of all. I noticed some were commenting on 'why wireless ?' To me it makes perfect sense. I personally don't get excited about a 'wired' set up. So wireless I think is where all this electronic wizardry should be at. And its only a wireless set up that I would even consider buying... later, in the future, when it becomes more affordable for us mere peasants who are not pro riders and are sponsored.

Secondly. I read some criticism about batteries and the environment etc. Fair call. I say take it one step further. Design the electronic gear set up so that it runs off a dynamo front hub. So you never have to worry about charging batteries or getting stuck out on the road with flat batteries. You could further enhance this by making the set up adaptable to both batteries and dyno power. That way, you could train with dyno power and use a different wheel (if necessary) to ride on batteries for those that want to race and are concerned about dyno drag.

posted by Punchy [3 posts]
13th December 2012 - 2:41

10 Likes

I think I've got four gears; Top, second from top, bottom and somewhere in between.


Suffering from Low Cadence.

bikeboy76's picture

posted by bikeboy76 [1264 posts]
13th December 2012 - 4:38

9 Likes

I'm impressed, I always figured Di2 v2 would be wireless so would be interesting how close the Tiso stuff is to production. It might not be pretty but it manages to look a whole lot better than Shimano and Campy's electronic efforts.
I share concerns over the security of the wireless set up though, as well as it being a small Italian manufacturer (Italians and electrics generally aren't a great combo Tongue ), not sure about the 12-speed either, I'm all for more gears but at some point the dishing on the wheel is going to become a major factor.
I'd like to say "I'm in" but I'm guessing cost alone will rule me out even if my concerns were addressed, still it's good someone is genuinely innovating as Shimano have dropped the ball recently.

posted by fuzzywuzzy [59 posts]
13th December 2012 - 9:33

7 Likes

My neighbour's new car rings my door bell every time he comes in and goes out so until wireless interference is sorted I'm not in the least bit interested.
I don't want wires and batteries either so I'm definitely out. I ride a bicycle not a gadget

Alg

posted by alg [129 posts]
13th December 2012 - 9:57

10 Likes

i rode in on down tube shifters today. happy days Big Grin

Dave Atkinson's picture

posted by Dave Atkinson [7333 posts]
13th December 2012 - 11:05

8 Likes

Blimey I don't know how I used to cope with five speeds on the back.

Seems a bit of the gadget. I bet there will be one or two MAMIL's buying it though.

Velotastic !

Too many hills, but too little time.

badback's picture

posted by badback [267 posts]
13th December 2012 - 12:26

11 Likes

Why bother having more and more gears? All you need is a hydraulically-actuated system that expands and contracts a single cog and you've got an incrementally variable transmission.

Boardman CX Team '14 | Cannondale CAAD8 '12 (written off, SMIDSY) | Scott Sportster '08

Gizmo_'s picture

posted by Gizmo_ [834 posts]
13th December 2012 - 12:41

13 Likes

Simmo72 wrote:
I'll be on cabled 10 speed for a long time yet, its reliable, cheap and offers more than enough range. We make life too complicated for ourselves. Chill.

So true cable gears work so well that said Shimano will go wireless in the future with gear showing computer etc and then i will be having some

big mick

posted by big mick [176 posts]
13th December 2012 - 13:31

12 Likes

Fugly!

Not long til the powermeter is included and the software is pre-programmed with the stage layout so watts generated are always at their most economic and the gears changed in auto to assist.

Can we get electric steering while were at it, the satnag can take care of that too.

Not a fan, love technology advances but can only see this removing rider ability in the long run.

posted by Farky [179 posts]
13th December 2012 - 14:55

7 Likes

Sticking to my 9 speed. Gets me up some of the decent hills up here no problems. If you need more than that you either need to learn to climb or loose some weight Devil
And dave, down shifters ahh found memories Smile

giff77's picture

posted by giff77 [1051 posts]
13th December 2012 - 21:23

12 Likes

+1

posted by Punchy [3 posts]
14th December 2012 - 4:24

7 Likes

can run on either radio frequencies (2.4GHz control frequencies, most likely) or via Bluetooth connectivity

Bluetooth _is_ 2.4Ghz radio Thinking Nerd

(I know what you're trying to say, though Smile )

posted by David Portland [89 posts]
14th December 2012 - 14:07

10 Likes

Gizmo_ wrote:
Why bother having more and more gears? All you need is a hydraulically-actuated system that expands and contracts a single cog and you've got an incrementally variable transmission.

How do you fill in the cog gaps? Appreciate you might theoretically be able to get an 11 tooth to look something like a (say) 22 tooth gear by making it bigger so each of the 11 teeth was interspersed with a 1 tooth sized gap, but I can't believe you would have a terribly quiet or reliable system... Be an interesting mechanical challenge to get the thing to expand in such a way that spaces between teeth or between teeth/gaps remained constant (chain spacing can't change).

The alternative is a hydrostatic continuously variable transmission system which would allow you to have notionally infinitely adjustable ratios. The only thing I don't know is how efficient they are. Bet it would be a very heavy system too. Any machinists out there feel like having a go at building one? I guess you'd have to try to find a way to build it all into the bottom bracket...

posted by Tjuice [109 posts]
14th December 2012 - 19:05

19 Likes

I'm not wasting my money on a 12 speed wireless set up. I'm waiting for the 13 speed thought controlled set I hear a big manufacturer is working on.

I can't understand how I have lived and ridden my bikes for well over 40 years without 12 speed gears.....

I'm just waiting for someone to re-invent that old fashioned idea of a single gear that had no freewheel.
What was it called? Oh I remember now - a "fixed".

Binky

posted by davebinks [125 posts]
15th December 2012 - 18:56

15 Likes