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Women’s races to start behind sportive riders at Tour of Cambridgeshire

Race director says that decision has been made for safety reasons after reviewing last year's event...

Questions have been asked after the organisers of this weekend’s Tour of Cambridgeshire elected to start the men’s over-60 race and all of the women's races 15 minutes after the fastest sportive riders.

The Tour of Cambridgeshire comprises a number of different races and events. On Sunday, there is a Gran Fondo Sportive and also a Gran Fondo Race.

The top 25 per cent in each age classification of the combined starters in the Gran Fondo Race and the Gran Fondo Sportive will be invited to compete in the UCI Gran Fondo World Championships.

Both events take place on the same course and the main difference is that you cannot enter the race event without a licence.

The race gates will open at 11.30am for men aged 19-59 and at midday for 60+ men and for all women’s age categories.

In between – at 11.45am – the 21+mph start gate will open for sportive riders.

A number of participants have expressed dissatisfaction with the start times.

Rowland Sommerlin, the Tour of Cambridgeshire race director told road.cc that the start times had been set after reviewing last year’s event.

“As a result of last year and all the input from all the women that gave me feedback and all the men that gave me feedback, we decided that this year the safest, fairest way to do it was to put all the Sport A – which are a self-selected 21mph group – in front of the 60-plus men and the women.”

Sommerlin said that he himself set off behind the third and final group of women last year, “and as I looked in my mirror, I could see 400 riders from the front of the Sport group going at 26-27mph, bearing down on the women.”

This year, there are 900 entrants in the Sport A category. While Sommerlin recognises that some will have lied about their ability to hold speeds above 21mph, he has attempted to counter this by adding six commissaires and lead motorbikes.

When riders are dropped, they will be warned not to join groups from other races that are passing them and anyone who does will be disqualified.

Sommerlin said: “I believe that it is safer for riders of experience to catch and pass sportive riders rather than – as happened last year – the other way around.

“The other part about it is the fairness, because last year what happened was the Sport A riders were catching groups of women riders who’d been dropped and they were then dragging these people back up to the front of the women’s race and that is totally unfair and unacceptable.”

Alex has written for more cricket publications than the rest of the road.cc team combined. Despite the apparent evidence of this picture, he doesn't especially like cake.

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28 comments

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Jimmy Ray Will | 5 years ago
0 likes

I do find the ease and speed of the sexism card application increasingly tiresome, however I equally empathise with the women racers. 

Problem is, as already stated, the organiser has to manage large numbers of riders in a relatively short space of time and its a difficult balancing act. 

I don't think for one second the organsiers thought 'women, fcuk those bitches, they should be at home washing the dishes, lets give priority to the faster sportive men'. I imagine they thought long and hard as to what would provide the best outcome for all participants. 

The women can either have their race ruined (complaints made at previous editions), by sportive men coming through and affecting the result by dragging women back up. Or they will have their race compromised (read ruined) by having to ride through slower sportive riders who lied about their ability. 

Potential answers:

Set the women off first and then they would at least have their race ruined by racing cyclists who may at least pass with enough speed to not overly influence the womens event.

Extend the duration of the road closure so that the women could go after the race men and have a bigger gap between the first of the sportive riders setting off. 

Find a way to effectively qualify who gets a space in the 21+mph group so that the women are not catching anyone from this group. 

I think the women's race starting at the same time as the 60+ men is a mute point. that's pure logistics. 

I race at Combe. The 34 cat race starts first and the E12 follow a couple of mins later. The timings have been worked out so that the E12 group catch the 34 group mid race and pass in plenty of time to leave a decent gap by the finish. 

When making the catch, the comms give the E12 group plenty of stick to get a move on and get the pass done, cleanly and fast. We are also cajouled into maintaining the pace thereafter to ensure the 34's are distanced. 

My point? We accept this abuse (encouragement) as we understand the motivation behind it. Is it fair that our race is compromised in this way? Well it means we get a race; it means we don't get our finish ruined. So probably yeah.

There are a lot of compromising that we all do, male, female, different categories, whatever to get to do our sport. It's not automatically about sexism, its about practicality, and sometimes practicality leaves you feeling short changed. 

One other point. Anyone who obtained a licence purely to ride this event is surely negating the point of needing a licence to ride in the race groups. I'd have thought the need for a licence was requested with the expectation that licenced riders would be coming with competitive experience already under the belt. 

 

 

 

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don simon fbpe | 5 years ago
1 like

If the men's race had a clear run. Why wouldn't the women's? Then set the sportive out based on previous results to ensure that there's no crossover at the finish, it's in the name of H&S, isn't it?

As for fully grown blokes hurling abuse at anyone, simply because they had been passed. Seriously? Just coz you've got a £10k bike...

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PRSboy | 5 years ago
4 likes

Blimey, there was me thinking that events like this were meant to be fun. 

I think I'll stick to pretending to race on Strava.

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peted76 | 5 years ago
3 likes

@Awavey has nailed the issue here. 

I sympathise. I brought a race licence last year for this GranFondo after being in the Sportif pen the year before. 

Those in the sport pen ability wise are very mixed, that first year I did it, I spent half of the ride fearing for my saftey, shouting, pushing and generally shaking my head at the lack of common sense going on. Also I've never seen so many people have accidents on one day. 

The second year, I learned from it and went in the race pen, clearly there was a higher level of 'skill' but it was full of cat4 warriors with road ego's turned up to 11. I saw quite a number of accidents again, but these seemed to be caused by said ego's riding too close and touching wheels etc. I think I ended up in a bad peloton which was about 100 strong it was a bit mental. 

Point being it's fair that if you enter the 'race' you should not have to be mixed with the 'sport' pen. You pay your money and make your choice. NOT you pay your money and your choice is changed at the last minute!

The fact the sport pen may catch you up, frankly should't be the race pens's issue, it's the organisers issue and they should simply start the sport ride later. They are making a fortune from this and should be expected to deliver on what is a very expensive day out. 

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M444TTB replied to peted76 | 5 years ago
0 likes
peted76 wrote:

@Awavey has nailed the issue here. 

I sympathise. I brought a race licence last year for this GranFondo after being in the Sportif pen the year before. 

Those in the sport pen ability wise are very mixed, that first year I did it, I spent half of the ride fearing for my saftey, shouting, pushing and generally shaking my head at the lack of common sense going on. Also I've never seen so many people have accidents on one day. 

The second year, I learned from it and went in the race pen, clearly there was a higher level of 'skill' but it was full of cat4 warriors with road ego's turned up to 11. I saw quite a number of accidents again, but these seemed to be caused by said ego's riding too close and touching wheels etc. I think I ended up in a bad peloton which was about 100 strong it was a bit mental. 

Point being it's fair that if you enter the 'race' you should not have to be mixed with the 'sport' pen. You pay your money and make your choice. NOT you pay your money and your choice is changed at the last minute!

The fact the sport pen may catch you up, frankly should't be the race pens's issue, it's the organisers issue and they should simply start the sport ride later. They are making a fortune from this and should be expected to deliver on what is a very expensive day out. 

 

This was my first year doing the ToC GF and first ever road race. Everything you've said rings true. I only saw one crash as part of the M35-39 race but there were a lot of near misses in the opening 15 mins. I was dropped due to my own inexperience (the bunch was suddenly up the road and I was last bar 2 riders!). A lot of the issues simply seem like a lack of common sense. It's worrying that these people probably drove a car home! On a note related to the topic at hand I saw a lot of riders dropped in my race and doing no work in our group then vanish with the next fast group to come through. Saw at least a couple of guys do this several times only for us to catch them again.

 

As for the topic at hand i have sympathy for both the organisers and the women's race. It seems they got loads of grief last year with dropped riders being dragged back up by the fast end of the men's sportive. Probably didn't impact the podium but could have made a difference to the qualifiers. How you deal with that problem without setting off the sportive with a MUCH bigger gap I'm not sure. I assume road closure times simply won't allow much more flexibility for the entire event (front of mens race to back of the sportive). This year doesn't seem to have been the right way to address the problem though.

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BehindTheBikesheds | 5 years ago
0 likes

ladies race winner was 3:26 

@dottigirl, there were 600-610 men from the sportive in front of the women's race leader taking into account the 15 minute start, 50 men released 15 minutes AFTER the women racers would  have caught the race leaders and passed them at a critical point. 

The number of men that did roughly the same time in the sportive as the women's race winner was 335, there were 142 race finishers in the ladies race.  

On a mixed day on closed roads when how much time you can have is limited things are never going to be perfect for everyone and the ride organisers made a decison based on the knowledge and feedback they had.

Stop whining about something that in the grand scheme of things is pitifully low, it's not sexist, it's not about an agenda it's about ensuring to their best ability that everyone gets a fair crack and importantly is as safe as can be.

If it's that big a deal organise a women's only race day then it can be structured to how you like it.

good luck at the big one for all that qualified.

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Awavey replied to BehindTheBikesheds | 5 years ago
4 likes
BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

ladies race winner was 3:26 

@dottigirl, there were 600-610 men from the sportive in front of the women's race leader taking into account the 15 minute start, 50 men released 15 minutes AFTER the women racers would  have caught the race leaders and passed them at a critical point. 

The number of men that did roughly the same time in the sportive as the women's race winner was 335, there were 142 race finishers in the ladies race.  

On a mixed day on closed roads when how much time you can have is limited things are never going to be perfect for everyone and the ride organisers made a decison based on the knowledge and feedback they had.

Stop whining about something that in the grand scheme of things is pitifully low, it's not sexist, it's not about an agenda it's about ensuring to their best ability that everyone gets a fair crack and importantly is as safe as can be.

If it's that big a deal organise a women's only race day then it can be structured to how you like it.

The point is the women in the race paid extra for race licenses to compete in a race not a sportive, the men's race got completely clear closed roads,the women's race had roads spread with sportive riders,anyone who has ridden a sportive on closed roads knows its very dangerous to be trying to race through mixed ability sportive riders however fast they claim to be ,as they can be unpredictable and cause crashes,so they didn't remotely get a fair crack at the race they were sold by the organisers who only sprung this change of start on them in the last week

That's the issue.

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BehindTheBikesheds replied to Awavey | 5 years ago
0 likes
Awavey wrote:
BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

ladies race winner was 3:26 

@dottigirl, there were 600-610 men from the sportive in front of the women's race leader taking into account the 15 minute start, 50 men released 15 minutes AFTER the women racers would  have caught the race leaders and passed them at a critical point. 

The number of men that did roughly the same time in the sportive as the women's race winner was 335, there were 142 race finishers in the ladies race.  

On a mixed day on closed roads when how much time you can have is limited things are never going to be perfect for everyone and the ride organisers made a decison based on the knowledge and feedback they had.

Stop whining about something that in the grand scheme of things is pitifully low, it's not sexist, it's not about an agenda it's about ensuring to their best ability that everyone gets a fair crack and importantly is as safe as can be.

If it's that big a deal organise a women's only race day then it can be structured to how you like it.

The point is the women in the race paid extra for race licenses to compete in a race not a sportive, the men's race got completely clear closed roads,the women's race had roads spread with sportive riders,anyone who has ridden a sportive on closed roads knows its very dangerous to be trying to race through mixed ability sportive riders however fast they claim to be ,as they can be unpredictable and cause crashes,so they didn't remotely get a fair crack at the race they were sold by the organisers who only sprung this change of start on them in the last week That's the issue.

So your saying that because you paid more that trumps health and safety?

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Awavey replied to BehindTheBikesheds | 5 years ago
2 likes
BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

 

So your saying that because you paid more that trumps health and safety?

its a far bigger health and safety issue for racing riders to be riding through mixed ability/experience sportive riders however fast theyve claimed to be, and yes I do think if you paid more to the organisers of this event to enter what is advertised as a race as well as the race licence necessary,that their own website still states" elite athletes starting in a Race (UGFWS Race) at the front followed by a Sportive..."

then to find only a week before the event actually your race is going to be totally compromised because youll be started behind those sportive riders, and with no refunds available, thats a big problem, thats not what any of those riders signed upto a year ago.

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dottigirl | 5 years ago
2 likes

How did this pan out then?

Well, as mentioned above, the women's race had to overtake hundreds of men, riding all over the road, who gave them abuse as they passed. Pretty unpleasant.

Apparently, many weren't aware told there would be races starting behind them.

And yes, it sounds like there were many overstating their abilities.

Shitty thing for the organisers to do to women's cycling. Though CTT are currently giving them a run for their money...

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CXR94Di2 replied to dottigirl | 5 years ago
0 likes
dottigirl wrote:

How did this pan out then?

Well, as mentioned above, the women's race had to overtake hundreds of men, riding all over the road, who gave them abuse as they passed. Pretty unpleasant.

Apparently, many weren't aware told there would be races starting behind them.

And yes, it sounds like there were many overstating their abilities.

Shitty thing for the organisers to do to women's cycling. Though CTT are currently giving them a run for their money...

 

Firstly, the riders in front weren't all over the road, only at bends where all the road was used. I and others were drafting in smallish packs maybe 10-15 riders in a line almost on the left side of the road- us Brits follow the rules you know  1

 

There was no abuse from riders who werent attempting to muscle in on their race

The men who were dickheads were trying to get into the women's group pack and draft with them, so were fighting to get into still air.  They should of been warned and the DQ from any aspect of the event whether sportive or race.

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dottigirl replied to CXR94Di2 | 5 years ago
1 like
CXR94Di2 wrote:
dottigirl wrote:

How did this pan out then?

Well, as mentioned above, the women's race had to overtake hundreds of men, riding all over the road, who gave them abuse as they passed. Pretty unpleasant.

Apparently, many weren't aware told there would be races starting behind them.

And yes, it sounds like there were many overstating their abilities.

Shitty thing for the organisers to do to women's cycling. Though CTT are currently giving them a run for their money...

 

Firstly, the riders in front weren't all over the road, only at bends where all the road was used. I and others were drafting in smallish packs maybe 10-15 riders in a line almost on the left side of the road- us Brits follow the rules you know  1

 

There was no abuse from riders who werent attempting to muscle in on their race

The men who were dickheads were trying to get into the women's group pack and draft with them, so were fighting to get into still air.  They should of been warned and the DQ from any aspect of the event whether sportive or race.

You and your mates may not have been all over the road, but others from the sportive wave were.

And men who were being overtaken by the women gave abuse, including those who were asked to move over.

These reports are from women actually in the 'group pack'. These were their experiences. I'm not sure why you're trying to deny them? You had your experience, the women experienced something different.

 

I'm not sure what the best solution would have been either, just not this. 

 

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CXR94Di2 | 5 years ago
2 likes

It's was extremely hard to hold wheels if you don't have the strength. I averaged over 21 yesterday, got passed by the women's race near the latter stages. There were dickhead men interfering in their race. There was plenty of other riders these men could of ridden/drafted with. No need to get to involved, plenty of room with both side of the road available

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BehindTheBikesheds | 5 years ago
3 likes

So you're saying you would have won the women's race by 12 minutes if it weren't for the fact you made the decision to not enter the race  (and ride with the men)? Riding in a race is not the same as riding in a group whose sole aim is to go as quickly as possible, if you knew racing you would know this already. And a smaller minority of people going faster does not justify your position when the data and feedback given to event organisers simply said that taking into account the speeds of the majority meant it was safer for all to go the route/timings they decided upon.

So it looks like you were able to go faster simply by being in a men's group than if you'd have raced, doesn't that give you a big clue or did you ride solo and not in a bunch with other men?

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CXR94Di2 | 5 years ago
0 likes

Better get my skates on then, I'm in the 21+ sportive pen. I have no issues being overtaken by the women's race, in fact they should go first so we don't interfere with their race. It will be interesting to see the pace of these young women compared to an average fit 50yr old bloke

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53.12.scruz | 5 years ago
0 likes

If last year saw two race groups get swarmed by 400 fast "sportive" riders, the riders in those race groups should be pleased by this decision.   It also says very little about which group has the strongest riders, which is the implication of several of these reactions.  Racing for finishing order, and riding for a time are very different things.

Dropped racers who come back to their field by sitting in on other ride groups, or cars, are cheaters.   Hiding in a 400 person sportive field, it's less obvious who those cheaters are.  This decision helps the racers.

 

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EddyBerckx | 5 years ago
4 likes

I was in the 21mph+ pen last year and a couple of points.

1. It's a big pen.

2. While there are some fast riders...there are a hell of a bigger percentage who are not, and a reasonable percentage who just wanted to start early. The TOC organisers have no way of knowing how fast the riders who self select for this pen really are and so it gets abused.

This is bullshit in other words. Poor show...

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madcarew replied to EddyBerckx | 5 years ago
1 like
StoopidUserName wrote:

I was in the 21mph+ pen last year and a couple of points. 1. It's a big pen. 2. While there are some fast riders...there are a hell of a bigger percentage who are not, and a reasonable percentage who just wanted to start early. The TOC organisers have no way of knowing how fast the riders who self select for this pen really are and so it gets abused. This is bullshit in other words. Poor show...

I was at the gran fondo world champs 2 years ago and the women's 35 - 40 group got caught by the 60 yr old mens group 40k into the race. The 60 yr old men started 5 min behind. A crash resulted as 250 riders met on the road. Fact is the women are about the same speed as the 60 yr old men, so for all sorts of logistic reasons it makes sense to start them at a point where they won't be caught by other groups, or catch up to other groups. The other option is to start them separate from the 60 yr old men, but you can't tell which is going to be faster than the other (The men will generally be faster on the flat, the women generally faster on the hills) so you need another 15 min gap between those 2 groups which adds to the complexity and cost of the event. It is actually really difficult to juggle, and impossible to keep all groups or individuals happy

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shieldzy replied to madcarew | 5 years ago
5 likes
madcarew wrote:
StoopidUserName wrote:

I was in the 21mph+ pen last year and a couple of points. 1. It's a big pen. 2. While there are some fast riders...there are a hell of a bigger percentage who are not, and a reasonable percentage who just wanted to start early. The TOC organisers have no way of knowing how fast the riders who self select for this pen really are and so it gets abused. This is bullshit in other words. Poor show...

I was at the gran fondo world champs 2 years ago and the women's 35 - 40 group got caught by the 60 yr old mens group 40k into the race. The 60 yr old men started 5 min behind. A crash resulted as 250 riders met on the road. Fact is the women are about the same speed as the 60 yr old men, so for all sorts of logistic reasons it makes sense to start them at a point where they won't be caught by other groups, or catch up to other groups. The other option is to start them separate from the 60 yr old men, but you can't tell which is going to be faster than the other (The men will generally be faster on the flat, the women generally faster on the hills) so you need another 15 min gap between those 2 groups which adds to the complexity and cost of the event. It is actually really difficult to juggle, and impossible to keep all groups or individuals happy

'Fact is the women are about the same speed as the 60 yr old men' ...Well there's a sweeping, sexist and incorrect statement if ever I read one @madcarew

I am a woman - I dropped out of the race pen and into the 21mph+ on the day because I actually wanted to race at the pace I'm able to race at, which incidently was a lot faster than the majority of men there yesteday.  I averaged 39.3 kph and came 6th overall in the women and 3rd in my age group but I didn't get on the podium because I had dropped out of the women's 'race pen'. I was a good 12 minutes faster than the first woman on the podium.  Looking at the overall numbers I think I was actually faster than 85% of the men so why should I race with 60 year old men and behind everyone else?  It's just insulting and it makes an horrendous statement about the sport's attitude towards amateur women's cycling which is really sad and disappointing.  I'm not a feminist (I don't even like feminists) but I do want to be treated equally and this feels worse than some of the incredibly sexist things that used to happen in the old days of golf! And you sir are incredibly ignorant to be making statements like that.  

The second point to make is that anyone who has done the Tour of Cambridgeshire knows that a large proportion of people lie about their ability and place themselves in pens they probably shouldn't be in and get carried along or passed by faster groups. So few women do the event and even fewer put themselves forward for the race pen - why then are women singled out in this way and branded a safety concern?  The fact that Rowland Sommerlin then tries to say there's a 'fairness' aspect in relation to riding in a peloton is just ridiculous and insulting to everyone's intelligence - what a pathetic response to a ridiculous decision. 

 

 

Avatar
mikeymustard replied to shieldzy | 5 years ago
2 likes
shieldzy wrote:
madcarew wrote:
StoopidUserName wrote:

I was in the 21mph+ pen last year and a couple of points. 1. It's a big pen. 2. While there are some fast riders...there are a hell of a bigger percentage who are not, and a reasonable percentage who just wanted to start early. The TOC organisers have no way of knowing how fast the riders who self select for this pen really are and so it gets abused. This is bullshit in other words. Poor show...

I was at the gran fondo world champs 2 years ago and the women's 35 - 40 group got caught by the 60 yr old mens group 40k into the race. The 60 yr old men started 5 min behind. A crash resulted as 250 riders met on the road. Fact is the women are about the same speed as the 60 yr old men, so for all sorts of logistic reasons it makes sense to start them at a point where they won't be caught by other groups, or catch up to other groups. The other option is to start them separate from the 60 yr old men, but you can't tell which is going to be faster than the other (The men will generally be faster on the flat, the women generally faster on the hills) so you need another 15 min gap between those 2 groups which adds to the complexity and cost of the event. It is actually really difficult to juggle, and impossible to keep all groups or individuals happy

'Fact is the women are about the same speed as the 60 yr old men' ...Well there's a sweeping, sexist and incorrect statement if ever I read one @madcarew

I am a woman - I dropped out of the race pen and into the 21mph+ on the day because I actually wanted to race at the pace I'm able to race at, which incidently was a lot faster than the majority of men there yesteday.  I averaged 39.3 kph and came 6th overall in the women and 3rd in my age group but I didn't get on the podium because I had dropped out of the women's 'race pen'. I was a good 12 minutes faster than the first woman on the podium.  Looking at the overall numbers I think I was actually faster than 85% of the men so why should I race with 60 year old men and behind everyone else?  It's just insulting and it makes an horrendous statement about the sport's attitude towards amateur women's cycling which is really sad and disappointing.  I'm not a feminist (I don't even like feminists) but I do want to be treated equally and this feels worse than some of the incredibly sexist things that used to happen in the old days of golf! And you sir are incredibly ignorant to be making statements like that.  

The second point to make is that anyone who has done the Tour of Cambridgeshire knows that a large proportion of people lie about their ability and place themselves in pens they probably shouldn't be in and get carried along or passed by faster groups. So few women do the event and even fewer put themselves forward for the race pen - why then are women singled out in this way and branded a safety concern?  The fact that Rowland Sommerlin then tries to say there's a 'fairness' aspect in relation to riding in a peloton is just ridiculous and insulting to everyone's intelligence - what a pathetic response to a ridiculous decision. 

 

 

Good gods, how did this person who actually knows something about which they speak get in here? Remove her immediately so we can have more idiotic commentary  3

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John Smith | 5 years ago
1 like

Every day sexism? How is it fair that faster sportive riders being held up by slower racers? It’s being split by speed. Having a race license doesn’t give you special privileges. I’m not convinced they should run at the same time, as it reenforces the idea that sportives are races, but if they are it seems reasonable to order by speed, no matter what the gender or licence status.

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whobiggs replied to John Smith | 5 years ago
1 like
John Smith wrote:

Every day sexism? How is it fair that faster sportive riders being held up by slower racers? It’s being split by speed. Having a race license doesn’t give you special privileges. I’m not convinced they should run at the same time, as it reenforces the idea that sportives are races, but if they are it seems reasonable to order by speed, no matter what the gender or licence status.

 

Hmm...time for qualifying sportives I think? 

 

 

 

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HowardR | 5 years ago
6 likes

".....and piss all over them"

Have I innocently strayed into a 'special interests' thread ?

I'll get my Mac.....

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Yorkshire wallet | 5 years ago
1 like

There's no fucking agenda it's just biology. When will this madness end. Hopefully a load of trans women will enter the women's race and piss all over them.

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EddyBerckx replied to Yorkshire wallet | 5 years ago
2 likes
Yorkshire wallet wrote:

There's no fucking agenda it's just biology. When will this madness end. Hopefully a load of trans women will enter the women's race and piss all over them.

Muppet

Avatar
Yorkshire wallet replied to EddyBerckx | 5 years ago
1 like
StoopidUserName wrote:
Yorkshire wallet wrote:

There's no fucking agenda it's just biology. When will this madness end. Hopefully a load of trans women will enter the women's race and piss all over them.

Muppet

Nice guy time

//orig00.deviantart.net/906e/f/2014/093/2/c/nice_guy_magazine__school_project__by_inconceivablenotions-d7cwrzk.png) 

Tell me how I'm wrong about men being better than women in physical activities or sport?

Sorry if women's feeling are hurt that 60 year old men may still be faster than young women but that's reality. Remember when Serena Williams got easily beaten the 203rd ranked guy?

 

 

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EddyBerckx replied to Yorkshire wallet | 5 years ago
1 like
Yorkshire wallet wrote:
StoopidUserName wrote:
Yorkshire wallet wrote:

There's no fucking agenda it's just biology. When will this madness end. Hopefully a load of trans women will enter the women's race and piss all over them.

Muppet

Nice guy time

//orig00.deviantart.net/906e/f/2014/093/2/c/nice_guy_magazine__school_project__by_inconceivablenotions-d7cwrzk.png) 

Tell me how I'm wrong about men being better than women in physical activities or sport?

Sorry if women's feeling are hurt that 60 year old men may still be faster than young women but that's reality. Remember when Serena Williams got easily beaten the 203rd ranked guy?

 

 

Ok thank you for putting a more reasoned comment.

I've already put my answer above that many in the 21+ group aren't capable of that speed or at least not capable of catching the women. Some will and fair enough, either way there'll be a problem with the groups getting mixed. This way ensures that people get a bit more peed off and starts everything off on a bad foot. I don't recall any complaints from last year on this?

We'll find out how it goes tomorrow anyhow. This could be been worked out and talked about months ago if there really was a problem...why leave it all so late?

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FrankH replied to EddyBerckx | 5 years ago
3 likes
StoopidUserName wrote:
Yorkshire wallet wrote:

There's no fucking agenda it's just biology. When will this madness end. Hopefully a load of trans women will enter the women's race and piss all over them.

Muppet

How refreshing to see such a well reasoned argument.

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