Activists target Giro d’Italia over support for Israel

Legs_Eleven_Worcester wrote:

madcarew wrote:

Palestinian is a 'nation'.

One that has somehow contrived to live there for 'thousands of years' without leaving a single archeological or cultural trace (I would contend that Tel Gamma, Tell el-Farah and Nahal Besor represent Palestinian archeological remnants).   I suppose that is their most remarkable 'achievement'.  Well, that and  killing innocent people and making us all take our belts and boots off to go through security at airports. 

But hey, don't take my word for it.   Here are some questions about 'Palestine' for you. 

When was it founded and by whom?

In its currently claimed form, around 100AD, by the Romans. Although the state of Palistin existed in what is now north-west Syria around 1100BC. To be fair, it was never a country but instead always a 'people' and their 'region'.

What were its borders?

Basically, in its currently claimed (Roman) form, it covered modern day Lebanon and Israel, plus a bit of Syria.

What was its capital?

Because it wasn't a country, it had regional administrative capitals for most of its history rather than a main captial. It was largely answerable to Rome and Constantinople at various times. The administrative capital are amongst the major cities shown below. Its capital on its last day of existance in 1948 though, was Jerusalem.

What were its major cities?

Aelia Capitolina (now Jerusalem),  Caesarea Maritima (now in modern day Israel, and renamed Caesarea Palestinae), Gaza, Ashkelon, Hebron etc.

What constituted the basis of its economy?

Trade routes, and war - always good for business.

What was its form of government?

It was a Roman province until around 400AD. Prior to this is was ruled, for a period, variously by Five Lords of the Philistines and others. After the Romans, it became a Byzantine province - the names 'Palestinae' or 'Filisitna' were incorporated in various forms of the region's names throughout - and from the late 1800s until the end of World War One it was an Ottoman district, called Palestine. Until 1948 it became Mandatory Palestine. 

Can you name at least one Palestinian leader before Arafat?

It had a series of governors - Roman, Byzantium, Ottoman. Can you name at least one Israeli leader before 1948? David (of David and Goliath fame) was Palestinian - although he's more commonly known to us now as from Judae because we read from translations of the Hebrew Bible. I can give you Achish of Gath though!

Was Palestine ever recognized by a country whose existence, at that time or now, leaves no room for interpretation?

Please read everything I've written above, and do your own research. As far back as the Romans, they negotiated with Palestine.

What was the language of the country of Palestine?

Again, it wasn't a country - it has always been a 'people' and a 'region'. 'Countries' are a relatively modern invention, and something Europe and the west imposed on the Arab World. But, Aramaic was spoken, as was Latin (from the Romans), but mostly Arabic - even the Ottomans spoke Arabic. Hebrew only became increasingly prevalent at the beginning of the 20th century.

What was the prevalent religion of the country of Palestine?

Depending on the period of time and on various scales; Jewish, Christian, and from the 6th century largely Muslim.

What was the name of its currency? Choose any date in history and tell what was the approximate exchange rate of the Palestinian monetary unit against the US dollar, German mark, GB pound, Japanese yen, or Chinese yuan on that date.

It varied through time - for a long period it was the Ottoman lira. In 1927 the British introduced the Palestinian Pound - it was equivalent to one British Pound - precisely.

 

 

What do I win?

simonmb wrote:

Legs_Eleven_Worcester wrote:

madcarew wrote:

Palestinian is a 'nation'.

One that has somehow contrived to live there for 'thousands of years' without leaving a single archeological or cultural trace (I would contend that Tel Gamma, Tell el-Farah and Nahal Besor represent Palestinian archeological remnants).   I suppose that is their most remarkable 'achievement'.  Well, that and  killing innocent people and making us all take our belts and boots off to go through security at airports. 

But hey, don't take my word for it.   Here are some questions about 'Palestine' for you. 

When was it founded and by whom?

In its currently claimed form, around 100AD, by the Romans. Although the state of Palistin existed in what is now north-west Syria around 1100BC. To be fair, it was never a country but instead always a 'people' and their 'region'.

What were its borders?

Basically, in its currently claimed (Roman) form, it covered modern day Lebanon and Israel, plus a bit of Syria.

What was its capital?

Because it wasn't a country, it had regional administrative capitals for most of its history rather than a main captial. It was largely answerable to Rome and Constantinople at various times. The administrative capital are amongst the major cities shown below. Its capital on its last day of existance in 1948 though, was Jerusalem.

What were its major cities?

Aelia Capitolina (now Jerusalem),  Caesarea Maritima (now in modern day Israel, and renamed Caesarea Palestinae), Gaza, Ashkelon, Hebron etc.

What constituted the basis of its economy?

Trade routes, and war - always good for business.

What was its form of government?

It was a Roman province until around 400AD. Prior to this is was ruled, for a period, variously by Five Lords of the Philistines and others. After the Romans, it became a Byzantine province - the names 'Palestinae' or 'Filisitna' were incorporated in various forms of the region's names throughout - and from the late 1800s until the end of World War One it was an Ottoman district, called Palestine. Until 1948 it became Mandatory Palestine. 

Can you name at least one Palestinian leader before Arafat?

It had a series of governors - Roman, Byzantium, Ottoman. Can you name at least one Israeli leader before 1948? David (of David and Goliath fame) was Palestinian - although he's more commonly known to us now as from Judae because we read from translations of the Hebrew Bible. I can give you Achish of Gath though!

Was Palestine ever recognized by a country whose existence, at that time or now, leaves no room for interpretation?

Please read everything I've written above, and do your own research. As far back as the Romans, they negotiated with Palestine.

What was the language of the country of Palestine?

Again, it wasn't a country - it has always been a 'people' and a 'region'. 'Countries' are a relatively modern invention, and something Europe and the west imposed on the Arab World. But, Aramaic was spoken, as was Latin (from the Romans), but mostly Arabic - even the Ottomans spoke Arabic. Hebrew only became increasingly prevalent at the beginning of the 20th century.

What was the prevalent religion of the country of Palestine?

Depending on the period of time and on various scales; Jewish, Christian, and from the 6th century largely Muslim.

What was the name of its currency? Choose any date in history and tell what was the approximate exchange rate of the Palestinian monetary unit against the US dollar, German mark, GB pound, Japanese yen, or Chinese yuan on that date.

It varied through time - for a long period it was the Ottoman lira. In 1927 the British introduced the Palestinian Pound - it was equivalent to one British Pound - precisely.

 

 

What do I win?

Well, you certainly win a prize for effort, and I daresay that the Jew-haters in the audience, why .. there are already seven likes, so that sort of demonstrates what I was going to reply.   But then, you could have posted a copy and paste from the Ken Livingstone election manifesto, and the readers here would have been clapping their hands like a seal on dope.  

But you also must win a prize for the most gall and the greatest brass neck, in hoping that your bluster and shit would pass muster.  

To take but some examples, Tel Gamma, Tell el-Farah and Nahal Besor.  Tel Gamma was in fact a Canaanite and Philstine settlement - an Iron Age city quoted in tales of the conquest by the Pharoah Tutmose III.  His reign ended in about 1450 BCE if my memory serves me correctly - a full two thousand one hundred years before the flight of Mohammed, termed the Hejira and considered the ‘birth' of Islam.    As for Tell el-Farah, that town is called Tirzah and was a Hebrew settlement in northern Samaria.  The same Samaria that was in fact known as the Kingdom of Israel.   Tirzah was its capital. 

I don’t know of Nahal Besor and can’t be arsed googling. 

When was it founded and by whom?

In its currently claimed form, around 100AD, by the Romans. Although the state of Palistin existed in what is now north-west Syria around 1100BC. To be fair, it was never a country but instead always a 'people' and their 'region'.

Indeed it was ‘never a country’.  The word ‘Palestine’ in fact is a variation of what the Romans termed Israel after they rendered it Judenrein.   The Romans did not ‘found’ it.  They simply renamed it when they’d slaughtered or expelled the rightful owners - the Jews.  But top marks - claiming that a place stolen by the Romans is in fact an ancient ‘palestinian’ (sic) city.  That takes guts, man! 

What were its borders?

Basically, in its currently claimed (Roman) form, it covered modern day Lebanon and Israel, plus a bit of Syria.

In other words, ‘Palestine’ did not exist.    Which is what I said.  

What was its form of government?

It was a Roman province until around 400AD. 

This one really impresses me - claim ‘it was a roman province’, and your audience is sitting there nodding its collective head and muttering, ‘see ?  Told you it was a fackin’ country!’   But as you quite obliquely acknowledge - it wasn’t.  Again, this confirms what I wrote, whilst appearing to contradict me, and portray some nonexistent erudition.  You’re doing well .. 

David (of David and Goliath fame) was Palestinian

This one gave my wife and me much hilarity.  Wasn’t Abbas - you know, the ‘president’ on year twelve of his four-year mandate - trying to claim that Jesus was ‘a Palestinian’ (sic) too ?    LOL .. 

And then we get to the Palestine Pound.   Really?  A coinage imposed by an illegal occupation?    Meanwhile, Israelites were using coinage (remnants of which still exist) since around 6th or 7th century BCE.  

I didn’t treat every one of your hilarious claims, which of course will allow you and your fellow pro-‘Palestinian’ (sic) wingnuts to continue to howl at the moon and claim some sort of ‘victory’.  

So, basically - there was no currency of ‘Palestine’ (by which of course, you know I mean ‘used independently by the people still claiming to have lived there 'since time immemorial"').  There have been no KIngs, no rulers before Arafat, no history, and now in 2018, no archeological relics that have been independently verified as belonging to this ‘palestinian [sic] people’.  As is to be expected, since there is no such nation, people, race, ethnicity or culture as ‘Palestinian’ (sic).  They are ethnic Jordanians, Egyptians, Syrians and Lebanese who flooded into Israel at the end of the second Alya.    Their fraud and land theft is not going to be allowed to continue.

simonmb wrote:

Legs_Eleven_Worcester wrote:

madcarew wrote:

Palestinian is a 'nation'.

One that has somehow contrived to live there for 'thousands of years' without leaving a single archeological or cultural trace (I would contend that Tel Gamma, Tell el-Farah and Nahal Besor represent Palestinian archeological remnants).   I suppose that is their most remarkable 'achievement'.  Well, that and  killing innocent people and making us all take our belts and boots off to go through security at airports. 

But hey, don't take my word for it.   Here are some questions about 'Palestine' for you. 

When was it founded and by whom?

In its currently claimed form, around 100AD, by the Romans. Although the state of Palistin existed in what is now north-west Syria around 1100BC. To be fair, it was never a country but instead always a 'people' and their 'region'.

What were its borders?

Basically, in its currently claimed (Roman) form, it covered modern day Lebanon and Israel, plus a bit of Syria.

What was its capital?

Because it wasn't a country, it had regional administrative capitals for most of its history rather than a main captial. It was largely answerable to Rome and Constantinople at various times. The administrative capital are amongst the major cities shown below. Its capital on its last day of existance in 1948 though, was Jerusalem.

What were its major cities?

Aelia Capitolina (now Jerusalem),  Caesarea Maritima (now in modern day Israel, and renamed Caesarea Palestinae), Gaza, Ashkelon, Hebron etc.

What constituted the basis of its economy?

Trade routes, and war - always good for business.

What was its form of government?

It was a Roman province until around 400AD. Prior to this is was ruled, for a period, variously by Five Lords of the Philistines and others. After the Romans, it became a Byzantine province - the names 'Palestinae' or 'Filisitna' were incorporated in various forms of the region's names throughout - and from the late 1800s until the end of World War One it was an Ottoman district, called Palestine. Until 1948 it became Mandatory Palestine. 

Can you name at least one Palestinian leader before Arafat?

It had a series of governors - Roman, Byzantium, Ottoman. Can you name at least one Israeli leader before 1948? David (of David and Goliath fame) was Palestinian - although he's more commonly known to us now as from Judae because we read from translations of the Hebrew Bible. I can give you Achish of Gath though!

Was Palestine ever recognized by a country whose existence, at that time or now, leaves no room for interpretation?

Please read everything I've written above, and do your own research. As far back as the Romans, they negotiated with Palestine.

What was the language of the country of Palestine?

Again, it wasn't a country - it has always been a 'people' and a 'region'. 'Countries' are a relatively modern invention, and something Europe and the west imposed on the Arab World. But, Aramaic was spoken, as was Latin (from the Romans), but mostly Arabic - even the Ottomans spoke Arabic. Hebrew only became increasingly prevalent at the beginning of the 20th century.

What was the prevalent religion of the country of Palestine?

Depending on the period of time and on various scales; Jewish, Christian, and from the 6th century largely Muslim.

What was the name of its currency? Choose any date in history and tell what was the approximate exchange rate of the Palestinian monetary unit against the US dollar, German mark, GB pound, Japanese yen, or Chinese yuan on that date.

It varied through time - for a long period it was the Ottoman lira. In 1927 the British introduced the Palestinian Pound - it was equivalent to one British Pound - precisely.

 

 

What do I win?

You win this weeks award for succinct eloquence.

I presented all that to Legs a couple of weeks ago, and challenged him to answer the same things for the Jewish 'State' pre 1948. He's been pretty quiet on that, because, really, it's pretty much a parallel to the palestinians. Never their own state (except for about 50 years after the maccabean rebellion), just a nation of mixed peoples. Prior to 1948 the primary language(s) spoken by the vast majority of the world's Jewish population for at least 300 years was German, Russian, and Yiddish. If that's a measure of statehood (as he proposes above) then Jews are German and / or Russian. I think that may grate a little.

Legs_Eleven_Worcester wrote:

madcarew wrote:

Palestinian is a 'nation'.

One that has somehow contrived to live there for 'thousands of years' without leaving a single archeological or cultural trace.   I suppose that is their most remarkable 'achievement'.  Well, that and  killing innocent people and making us all take our belts and boots off to go through security at airports. 

But hey, don't take my word for it.   Here are some questions about 'Palestine' for you. 

When was it founded and by whom?

What were its borders?

What was its capital?

What were its major cities?

What constituted the basis of its economy?

What was its form of government?

Can you name at least one Palestinian leader before Arafat?

Was Palestine ever recognized by a country whose existence, at that time or now, leaves no room for interpretation?

What was the language of the country of Palestine ?

What was the prevalent religion of the country of Palestine ?

What was the name of its currency? Choose any date in history and tell what was the approximate exchange rate of the Palestinian monetary unit against the US dollar, German mark, GB pound, Japanese yen, or Chinese yuan on that date.

madcarew wrote:

I lived and worked in Israel for 2 years, with a number of palestinians, who didn't live in Gaza or West Bank. There are also Jews who live in Gaza

Haha!  I'm delighted that those two years were a complete waste of time.  There are no Jews in Gaza, because any Jew who wanders in there will be slaughtered by the murderous filth who live there.  

madcarew wrote:

and the West bank (controversially).

Yes, 'controversially' because there is no such political entity as 'the West Bank'.  The area to which you refer is Judea-Samaria which has been Jewish for five thousand years, except when Jordan illegally occupied it. 

madcarew wrote:

This doesn't make them Palestinian Jews....

If 'Palestinians' (sic) were Jews, you wouldn't give a shit about them.  

I've already answered all of those questions for you in depth in a previous thread. You can't or havent'  answered those questions for any 'jewish state' 1000 or 3000 years ago either. It doesn't mean it didn't exist. You assume I'm pro palestinian. I'm not. I'm simply anti bigotry.

madcarew wrote:

Legs_Eleven_Worcester wrote:

madcarew wrote:

Palestinian is a 'nation'.

One that has somehow contrived to live there for 'thousands of years' without leaving a single archeological or cultural trace.   I suppose that is their most remarkable 'achievement'.  Well, that and  killing innocent people and making us all take our belts and boots off to go through security at airports. 

But hey, don't take my word for it.   Here are some questions about 'Palestine' for you. 

When was it founded and by whom?

What were its borders?

What was its capital?

What were its major cities?

What constituted the basis of its economy?

What was its form of government?

Can you name at least one Palestinian leader before Arafat?

Was Palestine ever recognized by a country whose existence, at that time or now, leaves no room for interpretation?

What was the language of the country of Palestine ?

What was the prevalent religion of the country of Palestine ?

What was the name of its currency? Choose any date in history and tell what was the approximate exchange rate of the Palestinian monetary unit against the US dollar, German mark, GB pound, Japanese yen, or Chinese yuan on that date.

madcarew wrote:

I lived and worked in Israel for 2 years, with a number of palestinians, who didn't live in Gaza or West Bank. There are also Jews who live in Gaza

Haha!  I'm delighted that those two years were a complete waste of time.  There are no Jews in Gaza, because any Jew who wanders in there will be slaughtered by the murderous filth who live there.  

madcarew wrote:

and the West bank (controversially).

Yes, 'controversially' because there is no such political entity as 'the West Bank'.  The area to which you refer is Judea-Samaria which has been Jewish for five thousand years, except when Jordan illegally occupied it. 

madcarew wrote:

This doesn't make them Palestinian Jews....

If 'Palestinians' (sic) were Jews, you wouldn't give a shit about them.  

I've already answered all of those questions for you in depth in a previous thread. You can't or havent'  answered those questions for any 'jewish state' 1000 or 3000 years ago either. It doesn't mean it didn't exist. You assume I'm pro palestinian. I'm not. I'm simply anti bigotry.

I'm still waiting to hear about these Jews you believe live in Gaza... 

Legs_Eleven_Worcester wrote:

madcarew wrote:

Legs_Eleven_Worcester wrote:

madcarew wrote:

Palestinian is a 'nation'.

One that has somehow contrived to live there for 'thousands of years' without leaving a single archeological or cultural trace.   I suppose that is their most remarkable 'achievement'.  Well, that and  killing innocent people and making us all take our belts and boots off to go through security at airports. 

But hey, don't take my word for it.   Here are some questions about 'Palestine' for you. 

When was it founded and by whom?

What were its borders?

What was its capital?

What were its major cities?

What constituted the basis of its economy?

What was its form of government?

Can you name at least one Palestinian leader before Arafat?

Was Palestine ever recognized by a country whose existence, at that time or now, leaves no room for interpretation?

What was the language of the country of Palestine ?

What was the prevalent religion of the country of Palestine ?

What was the name of its currency? Choose any date in history and tell what was the approximate exchange rate of the Palestinian monetary unit against the US dollar, German mark, GB pound, Japanese yen, or Chinese yuan on that date.

madcarew wrote:

I lived and worked in Israel for 2 years, with a number of palestinians, who didn't live in Gaza or West Bank. There are also Jews who live in Gaza

Haha!  I'm delighted that those two years were a complete waste of time.  There are no Jews in Gaza, because any Jew who wanders in there will be slaughtered by the murderous filth who live there.  

madcarew wrote:

and the West bank (controversially).

Yes, 'controversially' because there is no such political entity as 'the West Bank'.  The area to which you refer is Judea-Samaria which has been Jewish for five thousand years, except when Jordan illegally occupied it. 

madcarew wrote:

This doesn't make them Palestinian Jews....

If 'Palestinians' (sic) were Jews, you wouldn't give a shit about them.  

I've already answered all of those questions for you in depth in a previous thread. You can't or havent'  answered those questions for any 'jewish state' 1000 or 3000 years ago either. It doesn't mean it didn't exist. You assume I'm pro palestinian. I'm not. I'm simply anti bigotry.

I'm still waiting to hear about these Jews you believe live in Gaza... 

Yeah, that’s what I thought.

Legs_Eleven_Worcester wrote:

Legs_Eleven_Worcester wrote:

madcarew wrote:

Legs_Eleven_Worcester wrote:

madcarew wrote:

Palestinian is a 'nation'.

One that has somehow contrived to live there for 'thousands of years' without leaving a single archeological or cultural trace.   I suppose that is their most remarkable 'achievement'.  Well, that and  killing innocent people and making us all take our belts and boots off to go through security at airports. 

But hey, don't take my word for it.   Here are some questions about 'Palestine' for you. 

When was it founded and by whom?

What were its borders?

What was its capital?

What were its major cities?

What constituted the basis of its economy?

What was its form of government?

Can you name at least one Palestinian leader before Arafat?

Was Palestine ever recognized by a country whose existence, at that time or now, leaves no room for interpretation?

What was the language of the country of Palestine ?

What was the prevalent religion of the country of Palestine ?

What was the name of its currency? Choose any date in history and tell what was the approximate exchange rate of the Palestinian monetary unit against the US dollar, German mark, GB pound, Japanese yen, or Chinese yuan on that date.

madcarew wrote:

I lived and worked in Israel for 2 years, with a number of palestinians, who didn't live in Gaza or West Bank. There are also Jews who live in Gaza

Haha!  I'm delighted that those two years were a complete waste of time.  There are no Jews in Gaza, because any Jew who wanders in there will be slaughtered by the murderous filth who live there.  

madcarew wrote:

and the West bank (controversially).

Yes, 'controversially' because there is no such political entity as 'the West Bank'.  The area to which you refer is Judea-Samaria which has been Jewish for five thousand years, except when Jordan illegally occupied it. 

madcarew wrote:

This doesn't make them Palestinian Jews....

If 'Palestinians' (sic) were Jews, you wouldn't give a shit about them.  

I've already answered all of those questions for you in depth in a previous thread. You can't or havent'  answered those questions for any 'jewish state' 1000 or 3000 years ago either. It doesn't mean it didn't exist. You assume I'm pro palestinian. I'm not. I'm simply anti bigotry.

I'm still waiting to hear about these Jews you believe live in Gaza... 

 

Yeah, that’s what I thought.

News flash for you Bro. I don't live my life on line. 

You know what your wife said to you the other day, about how you go on line to argue with retards? Well, the last 3 messages have been you replying to your. From where I'm standing it looks like you're arguing with yourself, so I'm going to concur with your wife's assessment.

I was in Israel in '93 - '94. At that time there were Jewish settlements in Gaza, although they were withdrawn in 2005. So, the question still stands (as I was clearly referencing when I was in Israel). Were those people Palestinian Jews? It's rhetorical by the way.

I'm not anti semitic, or anti zionist. I'm anti bigot. You, by your vehement denial of the very existence of a people (academic genocide?) are a bigot. I have very little interest in engaging with you further. I refute absolutely that you have a doctorate in this matter so you are simply a fantasist. I am going to take your wife's sage advice and decline to engage with bigotted fantasist retards.