Surrey school says students can only cycle to school if they fit a number plate to their bikes

Must be Mad wrote:

Quote:

Should a student continue to cycle to school once permission has been revoked the school will lock the bicycle until a parent/carer is available to collect the bicycle.”

Is that not theft?

No.

Curto80 wrote:

I brought this to the attention of Chris Boardman via his twitter and he's picked up on it. Think the school's social media accounts might be getting some attention...

just seen that and retweeted it to Cycling UK and British Cycling.

simplesimon99 wrote:

I think it is covered under Section 91 of the Education and Inspections Act 2006 which gives schools the power to discipline pupils which enables a member of staff to confiscate, keep or dispose of pupil’s property as a disciplinary measure where it is reasonable to do so. Staff have a defence to any complaint provided they act within their legal powers. The law protects members of staff from liability for any loss of or damage to any confiscated item, provided that they have acted lawfully.

If it is within the school's policy that bikes without the 'necessary' number plate etc. are seized then that is likely to be deemed 'lawful'.

The Principal of the school MUST inform parents and pupils at least once per year of the school's policy. Unfortunately the school's policy doesn't seem to be avaiable online.

They act within their legal powers if they prove that the confiscation is reasonable. I, sir, say it is not reasonable. Even in the school's policy, it's still unreasonable.

atgni wrote:

From 'ask the police' Private land It is a criminal offence to clamp/block/tow away a vehicle on private land without lawful authority. Lawful authority to immobilise or move a vehicle is restricted to a number of organisation such as the police, DVLA and local authorities. Privately owned land includes car parks, such as those at retail parks, whether or not there a fee is payable in order to park there (not local authority run car parks). To commit this offence a person must intend to prevent the owner/driver from moving their vehicle. I would suggest it is unlawful for the school to lock the bikes.

Let's just hope that Mr Batchelor isn't a recreational lawyer, or we're all fucked!

areyouallstupid wrote:

Well done Mr Batchelour. 

Anything that makes cycling safer for children is a breath of fresh air. 

Ensuring children ride safely with correct attitude, clothing and helmets (compulsory in some of countries penalised by on the spot fine by police officers) is a great idea. 

Which parent of sane mind wouldn't want their children ride safely???

Nice first post.

What bike have you got?

As you're here, have a search for helmet debate threads to see who's really stupid, nice name by the way, I don't suspect we'll see you on any other threads though.

Surely the adults who are driving are the ones who should be setting examples by driving with the correct attitude.

Cycling is not dangerous, cycling while being harrangued by dangerous drivers is. Parking outside the schools on cycle paths makes cycling dangerous.

Have a look at the close pass featured videos, they might educate a stupid person.

I've got a nice big gas guzzling 4x4 and pay a lot of VED. What do you drive?

Jimmy Ray Will wrote:

Do we know if the school provides any access to, or provision of cycle training.

Can't see it on the school website. The county council definitely provides cycling training which the schools can take up. 

ClubSmed wrote:

There is a subbtle subtext that could lead you to assume that antisocial behaviour by cyclists has been reported on the school run.

IF this is happening and IF it is becoming an increasing issue but not yet police worthy, I can see the plates being one possible solution. IF the school do have a duty of care from when they leave the house, and IF they are wearing their uniform (but with face masks/buffs) they will be having a detrimental impact on the school reputation as are identifiable as students without being easily identifiable as individuals.

IF they have a problem with antisocial behaviour, it is not a big leap to assume that they may have issues with bike theft and/or cheap bike abandonment. Plates could again, in this scenario, help.

So I suppose I might be able to justify the plates in the right scenario, but they have not called these elements out specifically so for me there are far too many IFs to be able to support the move in the slightest.

And IF those problems exist, they won't be restricted to bikes, will they?

Not knowing the school, the kids, anything about the situation, or the headmaster, but fully booted up and jumping to a conclusion anyhow:

the headmaster struggles with cause and effect, basic science and logic. I'd be fucking pissed off if I saw this shit from a headmaster of my kids, even if it was on a topic that I don't care in the slightest about, and I'd want to discuss it with him in more detail to have confidence that the school wasn't being run as wrong-headedly as it seemed.

Muddy Ford wrote:

If you have taken part in an organised cycling event you have no problem putting a number plate on your bike and wearing a skidlid. This however is oppression, targeting a minority group under a pretense of doing it for the safety of that minority. This is likely to encourage those more rebellious kids to put their safety at risk as a demonstration against this policy or maybe kids not from this school having a laugh and cycling dangerously but with false plates to get the schools students in trouble.

Isn't the whole point that not wearing a helmet is not "putting your safety at risk ".

wknight wrote:

A teenager cycles past me regularly, no hands on the handlebars, head down using his mobile phone. When I yelled at him yesterday for not look where he was going, his reply ' what's your problem' .......

very soon he will be learning to drive and since he can ride his bike and use his phone, I am sure he will do it on the car

how do I tell his parents that what he is doing is very dangerous, oh great a number plate on his bike 

I think all cyclists, as in China, should have a plate on their bike 

firstly, how many no-handed cyclists have killed others/killed themselves?

Second, how many drivers with number plates have killed themselves/others?

Third, can you please share your crystal ball and tell us the lotto numbers for tonight, seeing as you can forsee this young mans future and how he will behave IF he decides he wants to drive?

What crime has he committed, none as far as you've described, I'd hazard he doesn't wear a helmet or hi-vis right? Does he cycle on the road zig-zagging amongst traffic and cutting up peds, cyclists and motorvehicles, does he run red lights constantly, has he mown someone down, has he killed himelf, you didn't mention any of that so I would presume what he is doing isn't harming anyone, you know seeing as cycling should be likened to walking, a normal every day activity.

You sticking your neb in is not required, go hassle someone actually posing harm to others, those who already have a license plate which does not do shit to stop that harm!

Pipkins wrote:

 The man is a baffoon

I don't know about that, but he's certainly a buffoon!  

Quote:

Should a student continue to cycle to school once permission has been revoked the school will lock the bicycle until a parent/carer is available to collect the bicycle.”

Try doing that to my child's bike mr Wanker and I'll block your main entrance with a sizeable vehicle every single day until you apologise.

[/quote]

They act within their legal powers if they prove that the confiscation is reasonable. I, sir, say it is not reasonable. Even in the school's policy, it's still unreasonable.

[/quote]

The Act itselfs determines what is reasonable, it states that any confiscation must be proportionate to the 'offence'. The failure to follow the school's policy would result in the seizure of the bike and is likely to be a proportionate penalty.

I don't agree with the school's approach as it is likely to be counter-productive but what they are doing is likely to be lawful.

davel wrote:

ClubSmed wrote:

There is a subbtle subtext that could lead you to assume that antisocial behaviour by cyclists has been reported on the school run.

IF this is happening and IF it is becoming an increasing issue but not yet police worthy, I can see the plates being one possible solution. IF the school do have a duty of care from when they leave the house, and IF they are wearing their uniform (but with face masks/buffs) they will be having a detrimental impact on the school reputation as are identifiable as students without being easily identifiable as individuals.

IF they have a problem with antisocial behaviour, it is not a big leap to assume that they may have issues with bike theft and/or cheap bike abandonment. Plates could again, in this scenario, help.

So I suppose I might be able to justify the plates in the right scenario, but they have not called these elements out specifically so for me there are far too many IFs to be able to support the move in the slightest.

And IF those problems exist, they won't be restricted to bikes, will they?

Not knowing the school, the kids, anything about the situation, or the headmaster, but fully booted up and jumping to a conclusion anyhow:

the headmaster struggles with cause and effect, basic science and logic. I'd be fucking pissed off if I saw this shit from a headmaster of my kids, even if it was on a topic that I don't care in the slightest about, and I'd want to discuss it with him in more detail to have confidence that the school wasn't being run as wrong-headedly as it seemed.

I see what you mean with your point about cause and effect, if the problem is with anti-social behaviour currently from children on bikes, forcing them to register would just end up with those same children displaying the same anti-social behaviour as pedestrians instead. Also if they are going to start reprimanding bad commuting behaviour they would need some form of cctv footage or similar as evidence wouldn't they? In which case they would probably not need plates on the bikes, I would assume that any footage detailed enough to show a plate would show other identifying characters needed.

The only element that I would argue is a bike specific issue is any possible bike abandonment taking up bike rack space that they may have. Again of course, that is not mentioned anywhere by the school as either an issue or a reason for the solution. It is just my thought based on knowing nothing about the school, just my thinking of issues I see at my daughters school and at my work on what could justify number plates to me.

simplesimon99 wrote:

Quote:

They act within their legal powers if they prove that the confiscation is reasonable. I, sir, say it is not reasonable. Even in the school's policy, it's still unreasonable.

The Act itselfs determines what is reasonable, it states that any confiscation must be proportionate to the 'offence'. The failure to follow the school's policy would result in the seizure of the bike and is likely to be a proportionate penalty.

I don't agree with the school's approach as it is likely to be counter-productive but what they are doing is likely to be lawful.

You say that what is reasonable then fill the rest of the post with ifs, buts and maybes. I imagine that the school, during a court session, would be demonstrating to the judge that their action is reasonable, while the accused would be trying to demonstrate, with equal verve, that the action is unreasonable. That's how I understand that the law would work. It isn't as black and white as you would have us believe.

ClubSmed wrote:

The only element that I would argue is a bike specific issue is any possible bike abandonment taking up bike rack space that they may have. Again of course, that is not mentioned anywhere by the school as either an issue or a reason for the solution. It is just my thought based on knowing nothing about the school, just my thinking of issues I see at my daughters school and at my work on what could justify number plates to me.

Most places I have seen put a note on the bike to say it will be removed in X days. We have had a couple of these at work which were subsequently removed.

don simon wrote:

You say that what is reasonable then fill the rest of the post with ifs, buts and maybes. I imagine that the school, during a court session, would be demonstrating to the judge that their action is reasonable, while the accused would be trying to demonstrate, with equal verve, that the action is unreasonable. That's how I understand that the law would work. It isn't as black and white as you would have us believe.

Precisely. Otherwise you could have a policy that penalised Red Heads or Spectacle Wearers. A defence of 'in the Policy' would not be justified or proportionate.

hirsute wrote:

ClubSmed wrote:

The only element that I would argue is a bike specific issue is any possible bike abandonment taking up bike rack space that they may have. Again of course, that is not mentioned anywhere by the school as either an issue or a reason for the solution. It is just my thought based on knowing nothing about the school, just my thinking of issues I see at my daughters school and at my work on what could justify number plates to me.

Most places I have seen put a note on the bike to say it will be removed in X days. We have had a couple of these at work which were subsequently removed.

That seems far too easy and far too workable.

However, I don't think it fits in with the headmaster's (anti-cycling) agenda.

hawkinspeter wrote:

hirsute wrote:

ClubSmed wrote:

The only element that I would argue is a bike specific issue is any possible bike abandonment taking up bike rack space that they may have. Again of course, that is not mentioned anywhere by the school as either an issue or a reason for the solution. It is just my thought based on knowing nothing about the school, just my thinking of issues I see at my daughters school and at my work on what could justify number plates to me.

Most places I have seen put a note on the bike to say it will be removed in X days. We have had a couple of these at work which were subsequently removed.

That seems far too easy and far too workable.

However, I don't think it fits in with the headmaster's (anti-cycling) agenda.

They tried this method a few years ago where I used to work but due to elemental forces the notices didn't stay attached to the bike and/or legible for a reasonable enough duration so they gave up

ClubSmed wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

hirsute wrote:

ClubSmed wrote:

The only element that I would argue is a bike specific issue is any possible bike abandonment taking up bike rack space that they may have. Again of course, that is not mentioned anywhere by the school as either an issue or a reason for the solution. It is just my thought based on knowing nothing about the school, just my thinking of issues I see at my daughters school and at my work on what could justify number plates to me.

Most places I have seen put a note on the bike to say it will be removed in X days. We have had a couple of these at work which were subsequently removed.

That seems far too easy and far too workable.

However, I don't think it fits in with the headmaster's (anti-cycling) agenda.

They tried this method a few years ago where I used to work but due to elemental forces the notices didn't stay attached to the bike and/or legible for a reasonable enough duration so they gave up

There's a brand new, modern hi-tech way of securing things - cable ties. That and a set of generic plastic signs (e.g. "This bike will be removed on Friday evening if this notice is still attached") seem like a simple solution to me. Also, sellotape would probably work.

hawkinspeter wrote:

ClubSmed wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

hirsute wrote:

ClubSmed wrote:

The only element that I would argue is a bike specific issue is any possible bike abandonment taking up bike rack space that they may have. Again of course, that is not mentioned anywhere by the school as either an issue or a reason for the solution. It is just my thought based on knowing nothing about the school, just my thinking of issues I see at my daughters school and at my work on what could justify number plates to me.

Most places I have seen put a note on the bike to say it will be removed in X days. We have had a couple of these at work which were subsequently removed.

That seems far too easy and far too workable.

However, I don't think it fits in with the headmaster's (anti-cycling) agenda.

They tried this method a few years ago where I used to work but due to elemental forces the notices didn't stay attached to the bike and/or legible for a reasonable enough duration so they gave up

There's a brand new, modern hi-tech way of securing things - cable ties. That and a set of generic plastic signs (e.g. "This bike will be removed on Friday evening if this notice is still attached") seem like a simple solution to me. Also, sellotape would probably work.

"by Friday" isn't enough notice as holidays can easily be a couple of weeks. Generic dates just don't work as they are not specific enough for legal removal so pre printed plastic signs won't work. Selotape does not stand up to rain, and whilst zip ties do, that doesn't make a difference if the signage doesn't. Laminating also doesn't stand up to much, just in case you were thinking of suggesting that.
This debate was had at my last work place several times.

ClubSmed wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

ClubSmed wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

hirsute wrote:

ClubSmed wrote:

The only element that I would argue is a bike specific issue is any possible bike abandonment taking up bike rack space that they may have. Again of course, that is not mentioned anywhere by the school as either an issue or a reason for the solution. It is just my thought based on knowing nothing about the school, just my thinking of issues I see at my daughters school and at my work on what could justify number plates to me.

Most places I have seen put a note on the bike to say it will be removed in X days. We have had a couple of these at work which were subsequently removed.

That seems far too easy and far too workable.

However, I don't think it fits in with the headmaster's (anti-cycling) agenda.

They tried this method a few years ago where I used to work but due to elemental forces the notices didn't stay attached to the bike and/or legible for a reasonable enough duration so they gave up

There's a brand new, modern hi-tech way of securing things - cable ties. That and a set of generic plastic signs (e.g. "This bike will be removed on Friday evening if this notice is still attached") seem like a simple solution to me. Also, sellotape would probably work.

"by Friday" isn't enough notice as holidays can easily be a couple of weeks. Generic dates just don't work as they are not specific enough for legal removal so pre printed plastic signs won't work. Selotape does not stand up to rain, and whilst zip ties do, that doesn't make a difference if the signage doesn't. Laminating also doesn't stand up to much, just in case you were thinking of suggesting that.
This debate was had at my last work place several times.

Yeah, but that was at the special warden department of Wardens R Us, the real world doesn't always work like that.

Helmut D. Bate wrote:

ClubSmed wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

ClubSmed wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

hirsute wrote:

ClubSmed wrote:

The only element that I would argue is a bike specific issue is any possible bike abandonment taking up bike rack space that they may have. Again of course, that is not mentioned anywhere by the school as either an issue or a reason for the solution. It is just my thought based on knowing nothing about the school, just my thinking of issues I see at my daughters school and at my work on what could justify number plates to me.

Most places I have seen put a note on the bike to say it will be removed in X days. We have had a couple of these at work which were subsequently removed.

That seems far too easy and far too workable.

However, I don't think it fits in with the headmaster's (anti-cycling) agenda.

They tried this method a few years ago where I used to work but due to elemental forces the notices didn't stay attached to the bike and/or legible for a reasonable enough duration so they gave up

There's a brand new, modern hi-tech way of securing things - cable ties. That and a set of generic plastic signs (e.g. "This bike will be removed on Friday evening if this notice is still attached") seem like a simple solution to me. Also, sellotape would probably work.

"by Friday" isn't enough notice as holidays can easily be a couple of weeks. Generic dates just don't work as they are not specific enough for legal removal so pre printed plastic signs won't work. Selotape does not stand up to rain, and whilst zip ties do, that doesn't make a difference if the signage doesn't. Laminating also doesn't stand up to much, just in case you were thinking of suggesting that.
This debate was had at my last work place several times.

Yeah, but that was at the special warden department of Wardens R Us, the real world doesn't always work like that.

Another value add comment, well done.
The major issue with the "stick a notice on it" approach is fair weather cyclists. The majority of the workforce in the places I've worked (and as a Management Consultant I've worked in a lot) have been fair weather cyclists. This means that when the weather turns they may not use their bikes for months, but still intend to cycle again when conditions change. They can (and do) in these scenarios, leave their bikes at work locked in the bike racks. They are unlikely to return to the bike racks to see any notes until the point they are ready to cycle again. Fair weather cyclists are still cyclists that should be encouraged and penalising them will not help anything.
Welcome to the real world!

ClubSmed wrote:

Helmut D. Bate wrote:

ClubSmed wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

ClubSmed wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

hirsute wrote:

ClubSmed wrote:

The only element that I would argue is a bike specific issue is any possible bike abandonment taking up bike rack space that they may have. Again of course, that is not mentioned anywhere by the school as either an issue or a reason for the solution. It is just my thought based on knowing nothing about the school, just my thinking of issues I see at my daughters school and at my work on what could justify number plates to me.

Most places I have seen put a note on the bike to say it will be removed in X days. We have had a couple of these at work which were subsequently removed.

That seems far too easy and far too workable.

However, I don't think it fits in with the headmaster's (anti-cycling) agenda.

They tried this method a few years ago where I used to work but due to elemental forces the notices didn't stay attached to the bike and/or legible for a reasonable enough duration so they gave up

There's a brand new, modern hi-tech way of securing things - cable ties. That and a set of generic plastic signs (e.g. "This bike will be removed on Friday evening if this notice is still attached") seem like a simple solution to me. Also, sellotape would probably work.

"by Friday" isn't enough notice as holidays can easily be a couple of weeks. Generic dates just don't work as they are not specific enough for legal removal so pre printed plastic signs won't work. Selotape does not stand up to rain, and whilst zip ties do, that doesn't make a difference if the signage doesn't. Laminating also doesn't stand up to much, just in case you were thinking of suggesting that. This debate was had at my last work place several times.

Yeah, but that was at the special warden department of Wardens R Us, the real world doesn't always work like that.

Another value add comment, well done. The major issue with the "stick a notice on it" approach is fair weather cyclists. The majority of the workforce in the places I've worked (and as a Management Consultant I've worked in a lot) have been fair weather cyclists. This means that when the weather turns they may not use their bikes for months, but still intend to cycle again when conditions change. They can (and do) in these scenarios, leave their bikes at work locked in the bike racks. They are unlikely to return to the bike racks to see any notes until the point they are ready to cycle again. Fair weather cyclists are still cyclists that should be encouraged and penalising them will not help anything. Welcome to the real world!

There's a big white Cube 29er which appears in the bike shed in my building, then doesn't appear to move for about three weeks, then disappears for a few weeks, then repeat. Never have got to the bottom of who owns it...

ClubSmed wrote:

Helmut D. Bate wrote:

ClubSmed wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

ClubSmed wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

hirsute wrote:

ClubSmed wrote:

The only element that I would argue is a bike specific issue is any possible bike abandonment taking up bike rack space that they may have. Again of course, that is not mentioned anywhere by the school as either an issue or a reason for the solution. It is just my thought based on knowing nothing about the school, just my thinking of issues I see at my daughters school and at my work on what could justify number plates to me.

Most places I have seen put a note on the bike to say it will be removed in X days. We have had a couple of these at work which were subsequently removed.

That seems far too easy and far too workable.

However, I don't think it fits in with the headmaster's (anti-cycling) agenda.

They tried this method a few years ago where I used to work but due to elemental forces the notices didn't stay attached to the bike and/or legible for a reasonable enough duration so they gave up

There's a brand new, modern hi-tech way of securing things - cable ties. That and a set of generic plastic signs (e.g. "This bike will be removed on Friday evening if this notice is still attached") seem like a simple solution to me. Also, sellotape would probably work.

"by Friday" isn't enough notice as holidays can easily be a couple of weeks. Generic dates just don't work as they are not specific enough for legal removal so pre printed plastic signs won't work. Selotape does not stand up to rain, and whilst zip ties do, that doesn't make a difference if the signage doesn't. Laminating also doesn't stand up to much, just in case you were thinking of suggesting that. This debate was had at my last work place several times.

Yeah, but that was at the special warden department of Wardens R Us, the real world doesn't always work like that.

Another value add comment, well done. The major issue with the "stick a notice on it" approach is fair weather cyclists. The majority of the workforce in the places I've worked (and as a Management Consultant I've worked in a lot) have been fair weather cyclists. This means that when the weather turns they may not use their bikes for months, but still intend to cycle again when conditions change. They can (and do) in these scenarios, leave their bikes at work locked in the bike racks. They are unlikely to return to the bike racks to see any notes until the point they are ready to cycle again. Fair weather cyclists are still cyclists that should be encouraged and penalising them will not help anything. Welcome to the real world!

Just make the policy on abandoned bikes clear - stick a notice on the bike shed so that people will see it when they lock up their bike. If someone wants to leave their bike there for months (although I don't understand how they commute there if the bike is stuck at work) then they just have to visit their bike once a week to remove any "abandoned" notices.

Meanwhile, here in the 'real world' there's lots of places that deal with abandoned bikes (e.g. train stations) - they just put a red cable tie on the bike along with notices that the bike will be removed in a few days. It's really not difficult.

hawkinspeter wrote:

ClubSmed wrote:

Helmut D. Bate wrote:

ClubSmed wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

ClubSmed wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

hirsute wrote:

ClubSmed wrote:

The only element that I would argue is a bike specific issue is any possible bike abandonment taking up bike rack space that they may have. Again of course, that is not mentioned anywhere by the school as either an issue or a reason for the solution. It is just my thought based on knowing nothing about the school, just my thinking of issues I see at my daughters school and at my work on what could justify number plates to me.

Most places I have seen put a note on the bike to say it will be removed in X days. We have had a couple of these at work which were subsequently removed.

That seems far too easy and far too workable.

However, I don't think it fits in with the headmaster's (anti-cycling) agenda.

They tried this method a few years ago where I used to work but due to elemental forces the notices didn't stay attached to the bike and/or legible for a reasonable enough duration so they gave up

There's a brand new, modern hi-tech way of securing things - cable ties. That and a set of generic plastic signs (e.g. "This bike will be removed on Friday evening if this notice is still attached") seem like a simple solution to me. Also, sellotape would probably work.

"by Friday" isn't enough notice as holidays can easily be a couple of weeks. Generic dates just don't work as they are not specific enough for legal removal so pre printed plastic signs won't work. Selotape does not stand up to rain, and whilst zip ties do, that doesn't make a difference if the signage doesn't. Laminating also doesn't stand up to much, just in case you were thinking of suggesting that. This debate was had at my last work place several times.

Yeah, but that was at the special warden department of Wardens R Us, the real world doesn't always work like that.

Another value add comment, well done. The major issue with the "stick a notice on it" approach is fair weather cyclists. The majority of the workforce in the places I've worked (and as a Management Consultant I've worked in a lot) have been fair weather cyclists. This means that when the weather turns they may not use their bikes for months, but still intend to cycle again when conditions change. They can (and do) in these scenarios, leave their bikes at work locked in the bike racks. They are unlikely to return to the bike racks to see any notes until the point they are ready to cycle again. Fair weather cyclists are still cyclists that should be encouraged and penalising them will not help anything. Welcome to the real world!

Just make the policy on abandoned bikes clear - stick a notice on the bike shed so that people will see it when they lock up their bike. If someone wants to leave their bike there for months (although I don't understand how they commute there if the bike is stuck at work) then they just have to visit their bike once a week to remove any "abandoned" notices.

Meanwhile, here in the 'real world' there's lots of places that deal with abandoned bikes (e.g. train stations) - they just put a red cable tie on the bike along with notices that the bike will be removed in a few days. It's really not difficult.

He's a management consultant: everything's complicated.

That would actually explain a lot... Not sure what calculation he's using to measure value added to Web comments though.

I love how people on here get incensed when cyclists are all lumped together and judged and then come out with comments like this:

davel wrote:

He's a management consultant: everything's complicated. That would actually explain a lot

As you enquired:

davel wrote:

Not sure what calculation he's using to measure value added to Web comments though.

The "calculation" I use was posted earlier in the thread, but as it was in response to a post that Helmut D Bate wrote that was wishing harm it looks like it has been removed along with any other replies to that comment. I did not report the post, merely replied with my issues with it, so at least one other must have seen it as out of order too. From Memory, this is more or less what I posted as my "calculation" that I use personally as you missed it and seem so interested:

Is the post furthering the subject of the thread
-Is the post backing up previous claims in the thread
-Is the post challenging previous claims in the thread
-Is the post adding a new dimension to the subject of the thread
Is the post furthering the forum community
Is the post adding humour to the thread
If non of the above it's probably not adding value

ClubSmed wrote:

As you enquired

I didn't.

But thanks for the wordy answer to a question nobody asked.

hawkinspeter wrote:

ClubSmed wrote:

Helmut D. Bate wrote:

ClubSmed wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

ClubSmed wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

hirsute wrote:

ClubSmed wrote:

The only element that I would argue is a bike specific issue is any possible bike abandonment taking up bike rack space that they may have. Again of course, that is not mentioned anywhere by the school as either an issue or a reason for the solution. It is just my thought based on knowing nothing about the school, just my thinking of issues I see at my daughters school and at my work on what could justify number plates to me.

Most places I have seen put a note on the bike to say it will be removed in X days. We have had a couple of these at work which were subsequently removed.

That seems far too easy and far too workable.

However, I don't think it fits in with the headmaster's (anti-cycling) agenda.

They tried this method a few years ago where I used to work but due to elemental forces the notices didn't stay attached to the bike and/or legible for a reasonable enough duration so they gave up

There's a brand new, modern hi-tech way of securing things - cable ties. That and a set of generic plastic signs (e.g. "This bike will be removed on Friday evening if this notice is still attached") seem like a simple solution to me. Also, sellotape would probably work.

"by Friday" isn't enough notice as holidays can easily be a couple of weeks. Generic dates just don't work as they are not specific enough for legal removal so pre printed plastic signs won't work. Selotape does not stand up to rain, and whilst zip ties do, that doesn't make a difference if the signage doesn't. Laminating also doesn't stand up to much, just in case you were thinking of suggesting that. This debate was had at my last work place several times.

Yeah, but that was at the special warden department of Wardens R Us, the real world doesn't always work like that.

Another value add comment, well done. The major issue with the "stick a notice on it" approach is fair weather cyclists. The majority of the workforce in the places I've worked (and as a Management Consultant I've worked in a lot) have been fair weather cyclists. This means that when the weather turns they may not use their bikes for months, but still intend to cycle again when conditions change. They can (and do) in these scenarios, leave their bikes at work locked in the bike racks. They are unlikely to return to the bike racks to see any notes until the point they are ready to cycle again. Fair weather cyclists are still cyclists that should be encouraged and penalising them will not help anything. Welcome to the real world!

Just make the policy on abandoned bikes clear - stick a notice on the bike shed so that people will see it when they lock up their bike. If someone wants to leave their bike there for months (although I don't understand how they commute there if the bike is stuck at work) then they just have to visit their bike once a week to remove any "abandoned" notices.

Meanwhile, here in the 'real world' there's lots of places that deal with abandoned bikes (e.g. train stations) - they just put a red cable tie on the bike along with notices that the bike will be removed in a few days. It's really not difficult.

They could have commuted in by bike but gone out straight after work so taxi home. Cycled to work but decided to get the train back due to strong winds, cycled to to work at site A but then goes to site B to work for the rest of the month etc. There are so many possible scenarios, I also see evidenced in the changing rooms on site of cycling kit that appears, stays for a long time then goes back again to regular appearance/disappearance schedules. I am not sure what's so difficult to understand or believe about this.
Work places and train stations are different and have different motivations and options available to them