Farmer who stopped Borders sportive says the event is "a waste of police time"

burtthebike wrote:

arowland wrote:

But how about a law to make farmers (well, anyone) sweep up after hedge trimming rather than effectively close a whole road to cyclists for days until enough motor traffic has passed to pick up all the thorns in their tyres?

I'm pretty sure there is a law saying that hedge clippings have to be removed, but don't ask me to quote it.  Can anyone confirm?

Not definitive but https://www.bradford.gov.uk/transport-and-travel/highways/mud-on-the-pub...

gives some info which obviously applies nationwide. I've often thought about informing authorities here in Shropshire due to the state of some of the roads, thorns and mud mostly. 

Leviathan wrote:

Helmut D. Bate wrote:

handlebarcam wrote:

Yet another person who thinks they and their kind are real people, doing ordinary "daily life" things, whereas others are not real people, not ordinary, and not contributing anything to the local economy. Remind anyone of a certain poisonous attitude? They may not have intended to hit anyone with those draining rods, but they definitely wanted to use them to "take back control" of "their" roads.

You need to take back control of your sanity. Some things are nothing to do with Brexit.

Nazis, he is talking about nazis and dehumanization [moron*] no one mentioned Brexit, just you.

*ironic

Rich_cb wrote:

I don't support their actions in any way but if this event did genuinely disrupt their harvest then the farmers do have a legitimate grievance.

This is not a legitimate protest. Farmers have to be flexible to cope with changing weather all year round so one morning a year  (that section would have been re-opened by 10 or 11 a.m.) for an event like this is not a problem. There isn't much land devoted to cereals around there anyway and most harvesting would be finished by now.

No, these are just miserable bar stewards. A Telegraph article is one of a number that show GoPro footage of two stupid old men with nothing better to do than prevent people going about their business. Anyone who stands in the middle of road and take swipes at passers-by with draining rods is not simply making a point. They should be arrested and charged.

The Tweed valley is a popular area for visitors so tourism will provide vastly more jobs for local residents than agriculture. The event organisers, who live locally, probably pay a lot more tax and support the local community far than most farmers do.

Rich_cb wrote:

I don't support their actions in any way but if this event did genuinely disrupt their harvest then the farmers do have a legitimate grievance.

I seem to remember Edward Woodward having some trouble with a group of people when their harvest failed. 

Simon E wrote:

This is not a legitimate protest. Farmers have to be flexible to cope with changing weather all year round so one morning a year  (that section would have been re-opened by 10 or 11 a.m.) for an event like this is not a problem. There isn't much land devoted to cereals around there anyway and most harvesting would be finished by now.

No, these are just miserable bar stewards. A Telegraph article is one of a number that show GoPro footage of two stupid old men with nothing better to do than prevent people going about their business. Anyone who stands in the middle of road and take swipes at passers-by with draining rods is not simply making a point. They should be arrested and charged.

The Tweed valley is a popular area for visitors so tourism will provide vastly more jobs for local residents than agriculture. The event organisers, who live locally, probably pay a lot more tax and support the local community far than most farmers do.

I expect you're speaking as a farmer yourself?

You do have to be flexible but sometimes you might only have a window of a few days to get everything in.

If the event fell during that window it would be seriously disruptive.

If we want closed road sportives to succeed we've got to try and accommodate the local communities as far as possible.

That being said there is still, obviously, no excuse for violence or sabotage etc. and the police should definitely be taking action in this case.

1961BikiE wrote:

Cyclists now seem to be the minority group it's legitimate to vilify and intimidate. Supported by our wonderful media services and the opinions of non entities who sadly have the public eye.

I've been saying this for years: if cyclists were a racial group or some other minority to which hate laws applied, lots of people would be getting locked up for hate crimes.  The real problem is that it is illegal to denigrate those people, but the haters still have to vent their spleens at someone, and cyclists are a handy target, and like most hate speech, it is almost completely misguided and wrong.

Wolfcastle50 wrote:

My city roads get closed twice a year for 'non competitive' running events I shall stop my car in the middle of the course, drain rod in hand and shout ' I am a motorist!' I'm sure I won't get arrested.

Ive just put the tv on to see the news, and miles and miles of roads through Newcastle and the surrounding areas have been closed for the Great North Run- absolutely disgusting: how are decent road tax paying consumers going to drive to the shops, eh? Gawd, think I'll have to buy a drain stick and some pies...

brooksby wrote:

Ive just put the tv on to see the news, and miles and miles of roads through Newcastle and the surrounding areas have been closed for the Great North Run- absolutely disgusting: how are decent road tax paying consumers going to drive to the shops, eh? Gawd, think I'll have to buy a drain stick and some pies...

Close enough...

Rich_cb wrote:

I expect you're speaking as a farmer yourself?

You do have to be flexible but sometimes you might only have a window of a few days to get everything in.

If the event fell during that window it would be seriously disruptive.

If we want closed road sportives to succeed we've got to try and accommodate the local communities as far as possible.

i hesitate to claim these guys were representative of their local communities as lots of old farm buildings get turned into B&Bs in that part of the world to welcome tourists, but these farmers, who are more than likely dairy farmers since crop farming isnt a big pasttime in the Borders because of the generally poor yields due to the weather, dont want to accommodate anything, theres no middle ground to discuss with them, they are just anti cyclist and are just being total nimbys

beverlonian wrote:

So, I've just been held up by a tractor, should I attack the driver with a stick as a peaceful protest?

 

no, you should block the road and force him to have a dialog. 

KiwiMike wrote:

People. Ride with video. Do it. It doesn't cost much, and will possibly make the difference between a lifetime paralysed in penury vs. being able to take your motorised assailant's insurance firm to the fucking cleaners.  

 

And, as a bonus, road bigots will get the evidence-backed drubbing they rightly deserve. 

Yes!!! I even run an app on my phone so I have a dash cam in the car too. I'll be getting a Fly6 soon, and find something similar for the front.

Rich_cb wrote:

You do have to be flexible but sometimes you might only have a window of a few days to get everything in. If the event fell during that window it would be seriously disruptive.

6:30-11am on one Sunday morning in September is not very disruptive.  If the road closure was for a town carnival or resurfacing it would be fine. People like them see a cycle event as being solely for outsiders who don't deserve to have the roads closed for them.

Rich_cb wrote:

If we want closed road sportives to succeed we've got to try and accommodate the local communities as far as possible.

"We"? When anyone goes on holiday or a day out we don't accomodate locals, they accomodate us. They tolerate us filling their roads, car parks, restaurants and shops in return for the business. The event website suggests that the organisers are local and trying very hard to keep as many people as possible informed and accomodated.

drosco wrote:

Seriously, if they get this irate about being prevented from going about their work by a bike ride once a year, I suggest they try commuting by Southern rail. It might put their suffering in perspective.

Have you tried commuting by bicycle? I hear it's rather good

Jharrison5 wrote:

drosco wrote:

Seriously, if they get this irate about being prevented from going about their work by a bike ride once a year, I suggest they try commuting by Southern rail. It might put their suffering in perspective.

Have you tried commuting by bicycle? I hear it's rather good

I have and I do, after getting so sick of the journey in and out of Canary Wharf. I now have a delightful 20 miles a day heading out of the city.

Simon E wrote:

6:30-11am on one Sunday morning in September is not very disruptive.  If the road closure was for a town carnival or resurfacing it would be fine. People like them see a cycle event as being solely for outsiders who don't deserve to have the roads closed for them.

"We"? When anyone goes on holiday or a day out we don't accomodate locals, they accomodate us. They tolerate us filling their roads, car parks, restaurants and shops in return for the business. The event website suggests that the organisers are local and trying very hard to keep as many people as possible informed and accomodated.

Have you done much farming?

If you've got a 48hr window to get your crops in and you lose 6hrs of said window then it can be highly disruptive.

You might not think that we need to consider the needs of the local community but a quick glance at the shambles that is Velo Birmingham shows what happens when you don't.

If this event really did coincide with the farmer's harvest then they do have a genuine grievance as the financial costs associated with the disruption could be huge.

Rich_cb wrote:

You might not think that we need to consider the needs of the local community but a quick glance at the shambles that is Velo Birmingham shows what happens when you don't.

I never said or even implied that. I don't appreciate the insinuation. Why mention a totally different event several hundred miles away in one of the biggest cities in the UK? Was it the same organiser?

And it's not "we" or "us" that's involved it's the event organisers.

Rich_cb wrote:

If this event really did coincide with the farmer's harvest then they do have a genuine grievance as the financial costs associated with the disruption could be huge.

Really? One Sunday morning? Many farmers don't harvest early in the day, particularly cereals, because the crop is still too damp, even in favourable conditions.

Regardless of that, standing in the road wielding metal rods is NOT the way to gain sympathy.

BadgerBeaver wrote:

Did anyone have a dialogue with the farmers or not?

I wonder how much of a dialogue the farmers would engage in if they were going about their lawful business and were stopped by armed thugs demanding that they justify themselves.

How much would you engage in?

I live on the route of the London Marathon, among other regular large-scale events. Have done for more than twenty years. Nobody has ever had a dialogue with me about it, or even asked my opinion, or whether it's going to disturb my work. 'They' just tell me it's taking place on such and such a date, that all the roads will be closed for several hours, and there will be enormous crowds.

I moan about it, but I don't try to trip any of the runners, or stick things in the spokes of the wheelchairs. Nor do I try to engage any of the participants in "dialogue" while they're participating. If I want to put a stop to the whole thing I will talk to the organisers, my local council and my MP about it, and perhaps organise other marathon-haters to protest legally.

Why do farmers think they're special?

Simon E wrote:

I never said or even implied that. I don't appreciate the insinuation.

"We don't accomodate locals, they accomodate us."

And it's not "we" or "us" that's involved it's the event organisers.

There's plenty that can be done early in the morning and, as anyone who knows anything about farming will tell you, the day of the week is entirely irrelevant.

Seeing as you have so far refused to answer my questions about your farming experience I'm guessing that group does not include you as a member.

Velo Birmingham was given as an example of an event damaged by poor communication with local communities.

ConcordeCX wrote:

BadgerBeaver wrote:

Did anyone have a dialogue with the farmers or not?

I wonder how much of a dialogue the farmers would engage in if they were going about their lawful business and were stopped by armed thugs demanding that they justify themselves.

How much would you engage in?

I live on the route of the London Marathon, among other regular large-scale events. Have done for more than twenty years. Nobody has ever had a dialogue with me about it, or even asked my opinion, or whether it's going to disturb my work. 'They' just tell me it's taking place on such and such a date, that all the roads will be closed for several hours, and there will be enormous crowds.

I moan about it, but I don't try to trip any of the runners, or stick things in the spokes of the wheelchairs. Nor do I try to engage any of the participants in "dialogue" while they're participating. If I want to put a stop to the whole thing I will talk to the organisers, my local council and my MP about it, and perhaps organise other marathon-haters to protest legally.

Why do farmers think they're special?

The extra toes?

mattsccm wrote:

Usual selfish and uninformed rubbish being spouted again here.

Firstly any agricultural transport has complete right against some commercial recreational event. There is no way that, for example, a tractor should be stopped from using a road because a bunch of outsiders want to play. 

Sorry, WTF?!

If a road is closed (for ANY reason) then there is certainly not a  "complete right of access" for a tractor or any other vehicle. That's the whole bloody point of closing the road!

Ironically, causing disruption to an event, whether by standing there holding not-weapons, scattering tacks, removing signage or whatever actually makes the event, and therefore the disruption, last longer.

There are ways and means of protesting an event via the council, your MP, lobbying groups, petitions etc. Not by standing in the road making threats to the people taking part, they're not responsible for the road closure.

crazy-legs wrote:

mattsccm wrote:

Usual selfish and uninformed rubbish being spouted again here.

Firstly any agricultural transport has complete right against some commercial recreational event. There is no way that, for example, a tractor should be stopped from using a road because a bunch of outsiders want to play. 

Sorry, WTF?!

If a road is closed (for ANY reason) then there is certainly not a  "complete right of access" for a tractor or any other vehicle. That's the whole bloody point of closing the road!

Ironically, causing disruption to an event, whether by standing there holding not-weapons, scattering tacks, removing signage or whatever actually makes the event, and therefore the disruption, last longer.

There are ways and means of protesting an event via the council, your MP, lobbying groups, petitions etc. Not by standing in the road making threats to the people taking part, they're not responsible for the road closure.

 

It also has the Streisand effect - loads of people who've never heard of the sportive now want to know more about it, take part in it, or support it, to piss off some intolerant bellends.